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Healthcare Ruling: Individual Mandate Ruled CONSTITUTIONAL, entire law upheld.

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by FreeFromTheHerd

Originally posted by underduck


Fine. Then stay off any road that you didnt build yourself, educate your kids at home, and never mail anything ever again.


The federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in education.

That is a state matter.

Have you ever actually read the Constitution?


Yes. I have debating with people on whether or not they need to pay taxes.

If this failed and your state ended up supporting the act would you be all for it then?




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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There is no way I can respond to everyone here, but I do want to make one post... just one, because I have to go to work... about this. I have been giving it some thought.

The bill as written cannot pass Constitutional muster. The individual mandate has been struck down, but it has also been allowed to stand in another form: as a tax. That means that every person in the country will now be required to pay a tax for insurance in addition to all the other taxes we pay. That includes every person whether they are for or against this law, whether they are insured or not. Taxes must by definition be applied equally.

The allowance for private insurance can be left standing, but only via tax credits based on insurance costs already paid. That means if you have health care paid for by your employer, it probably won't count; you didn't pay it. Your employer may get some tax benefits for it, since they paid it. I doubt that, however.

It means that, as a primary insurer, the Federal government will now decide what procedures are covered and what are not. I hope they do a better job than the insurers; I do not expect such.

It means that literally millions of new patients will be filling doctors offices and hospitals. It is well-documented that those with insurance will go to a doctor or hospital much more often than those who don't. that means there will be longer lines for you to wait in when you want to see a doctor. I know around here it is already hard to get an appointment.

It means that the cost will go up. The Federal government, by collecting tax for insurance, must now provide insurance. Even if they farm that out to private insurers, there's another middleman, the least efficient middleman known to exist, that will get their share. Does anyone really believe that the same Federal government who has gutted Social Security funds and driven the country trillions of dollars into debt won't appropriate as much as they can from this new golden goose?

It means that Obama will go down in history as the creator of the largest single tax increase in the history of the country.

It means that people will have another bill now to pay, and will have to make more money to pay it. That means that minimum wage will have to increase, placing more businesses out of business. There go the jobs. There goes the stock market as people cannot buy with no money. There goes the economy and a newly-accelerating national debt. There goes higher taxes to cover a financially decaying population. And there eventually goes health care, as the money finally dries up.

It means the poor will become poorer; the wealthy insurers and healthcare providers will become richer.

It means suffering, despair, loss of hope, and destitution for millions of Americans. And it means they will be kept alive longer to experience it. Isn't that the base definition of torture? Keeping someone alive as long as possible to maximize the pain they experience? So much for compassion.

Perhaps it is somewhat ironic that Wednesday is the Fourth of July. To me, it is a sad reminder of what once was and can never be again.

No, I won't debate this, because there is nothing more to debate. If you support this, you have won. Congratulations. I hope you are ready to accept the consequences of this law, because you, as well as I, will accept them; reality will see to that.

Again, congratulations. You wanted universal health care no matter the cost. You got it. I hope you are able to pay the cost. Many, probably including me, will not be able to.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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I think this benefits the GOP's intentions and tactics for the next 4 years. They will be able to continue to beat their drum about 'Obamacare" while ignoring the bulk of protest against US foreign policy, domestic civil rights, etc.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by shaolin_dragon
I asked earlier, but think it might have been missed in the rush.

If Kagen helped to write/advise on this..how is she able to vote on it as well? I thought I remembered reading that Kagen was an advisor on it.


Kagen did recuse herself. She did not write the law, she advised on.

Justice Thomas's wife sits on several anti-healthcare reform PAC boards, Thomas and his wife have attended several anti-obamacare events..they have recieved income from anti-obamacare orgs...

So...in light of Thomas refusing to recuse himself, Kagen chose to hear the case as well.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


The right wing has been telling people that over and over.

Now they have to eat crow.



I wonder if any of them will come out and say "I was wrong...it is Constitutional".

Or more likely...they will just say they know the Constitution better than the SCOTUS.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Better yet, instead of taxing those you are envious of, why not eliminate each and every unconstitutional expenditure government makes first?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Ookie
It is a tax I will never pay. Ever. Period end of discussion. I am not being forced to buy something. I will fight it with all my being. I asked over and over and I will ask again here, what document do those bozos read from? It can't be the constitution unless they have a different one than I do. Those "justices" need to tarred and feathered. TODAY. This cannot stand. It just can't. They do not have the right to tell me what I have to buy. No court can give them that right. No matter what. I'd rather go to jail.


From what I have read so far, you are correct that Congress cannot mandate what you must buy (Commerce Law), however, Congress is allowed to levy taxes. This was upheld as falling under the Tax Law, therefore, SCOTUS ruled it upheld in its entirety, with the exception of being able to remove existant funding from non compliant States. Only future funding can be withheld. BT



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Ok, the MSM, the SCOTUS, and the U.S. government has distracted the entire nation and all of us with this healthcare law and ruling; makes me wondering what's really going on underneath it all? Stay tuned...



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 
do not fret auto ins will be a tax just like the health care act is a tax, you pay no tax, you pay fine, no car still have to pay tax, it is just like not going to the hospital, do not go still pay tax.

What i do need is not covered any way, and yes i am back in the unemployment line, do i receive unemployment no. do i want it no. do ii want this tax, how can i pay it?????? what i was making was just enough to pay bills to stay alive to work, for work



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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This decision does nothing but cause more confusion regarding a law that was confusing from the start to everyone, even the people voting on it.

As for this law, my feelings have never wavered. I should not be taxed/penalized for not buying a product/service from a private company. I have no health insurance now as it is cheaper for us to pay cash from a saving account we have set aside for that purpose. Over the years we have saved thousands & we control our health care. This law will force me to buy a product that I don't want or need. It will force me to buy a product that will then dictate my health care options/decisions.

This will not lower costs to people like me, it will only ensure that I have to fund health care for even more people when the government can't even reign in the abuse/fraud happening ever day. The hard reality is our country is in turmoil. Our economy is suffering, millions are unemployed or under-employed and a majority of our citizens did not want this law in the first place.

If the government truly wanted to help more Americans get insurance, then they should of worked to reduce the costs. Enable us to seek insurance from any company in the country rather than the one or two our employers work with, enable us to buy the coverage we need/want verses plans that have things we'll never need, enable us to buy into a government option at a rate based on income & do away with Medicaid. (Why continue this bloated, abuse ridden program if there is a government option.)

At the end of the day, this would have driven down costs to everyone much more effectively, offered an option to the poor/disabled/pre-existing condition patients and it would have been something i think most could agree on.

Instead, now I'll be taxed because of a choice I made regarding my health. Welcome to our new government, where we can be taxed for not purchasing a product. What's next, we will be taxed if we don't buy a certain type of car that the government deems good for our environment?

I am sad that so many think this is a win when in reality this law has the potential to destroy our country.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by haarvik
All you supporters of this law really need to take a hard look at socialized medicine around the world. It DOES raise your taxes, it DOES limit access to proper medical care. FACT!!


Well...it's a good thing this isn't Socialized healthcare.

Right???



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by LevelHeaded
reply to post by spinalremain
 


I hear what you are saying, but I for one do not care who's idea the individual mandate was. The federal gov't (any past, current, or future parties) should not be mandating that every person purchase something.

With that said, the health care costs and health insurance are completely out of control and something needs to be done to fix them. And no, I do not have the solution. This law does help in may ways, it's just the individual mandate that I feel is wrong.


I am exactly where you are on the issue.
I do honestly believe that the only ones interest the act has in mind is the insurance companies.
This isn't socialized medicine.
This isn't an evil commie Obama plan
Republicans are just as happy about this as anyone else in favor of it.

The spinning and flip flopping is laughable sometimes.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Do you miss George W. Bush? Don't worry. We do too.

Romney 2012



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Wiz4769
 



Why do we HAVE to go with this plan?


We won't. Watching the alternatives evolve during a highly contentious presidential election will be very, very edifying. And amusing. Cue Sarah Palin in 3... 2... 1...
edit on 28-6-2012 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by underduck



Yes. I have debating with people on whether or not they need to pay taxes.

If this failed and your state ended up supporting the act would you be all for it then?


Fortunately I live in a state where common sense is the rule, not the exception.

There is no constitutional authorization for a "social safety net", or the idea of redistributing wealth from those that have earned it, to those who have not.

If this failed, and my home state ended up implementing something like this, I would simply take my family, and my 2 businesses and relocate to a state that recognizes the idea that it is not the obligation of one to care for another.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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In case my question is lost..what about the 48-49% of people that don't pay taxes now...ARE they exempt from this tax if they opt out of having insurance?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


From my understanding it's not "will stand" but if it were written as a tax it "could stand"? Currently forcing us to buy a corporate product isn't a tax... unless we wanted to take our little hint at Fascism and just have an all out Fascist blowout here?


Where it can stand as a tax is, they require that everyone purchase insurance if not provided by their employer or Medicaid, however, you may decline to purchase the insurance. They will then slap you with a 1% tax on your income. Voila! It is a tax (which Congress is allowed to levy).



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by underduck

Yes. I have debating with people on whether or not they need to pay taxes.

If this failed and your state ended up supporting the act would you be all for it then?


Ah, the old tax debate.
People get lost in the argument when using, as evidence, that they don't have to pay by stating that they don't pay. There was a guy in Atlanta for like 10 years that quietly taught people how to not pay income tax. He and the people he taught were left alone. He tried to expand, and did a whole bunch of advertising and got nailed. Not so much for not paying taxes, but the IRS got him in their sites and found that he made a minor mistake and in the process it was discovered that he got a little money back, due to what they said a lie.
So, don't lie with taxes, just don't pay.


But, if the State I reside in instituted this, on a State level, I would have no issue. I would just move States.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by the4thhorseman
In case my question is lost..what about the 48-49% of people that don't pay taxes now...ARE they exempt from this tax if they opt out of having insurance?


Right. Babies will not have to pay the tax.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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So now when people clearly cannot pay thier bills they force you to pay more taxes.The trainwreck keeps rolling to more massive debt.



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