One Man's Journey...

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Klassified

 

On the one hand "our righteous acts are like filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6 And on the other hand we "are of more value than many sparrows" Matt. 10:31

Just curious, does using Cartesian Skepticism to analyze the flip side to every coin ever mentally or spiritually leave you feeling drained?!

I think it certainly could if a person were constantly questioning themselves, and had no faith in themselves. But that quote isn't as much Cartesian as it is the contrasting of two extremes.

reply to post by deadeyedick

How much of this have you seen since you fell from grace?
Thanks for sharing your story and i'm sorry it has a sad ending.

I know you weren't speaking to me, but ...
I find this question and remark very offensive, deadeye. You have no place to tell another human they have "fallen from grace"! His story has a wonderful ending....breaking the chains of indoctrination and cult mentality is no mean feat. He is grounded in his spirituality, and admits the corruption and fraud that he witnessed. To stay in that atmosphere is to remain in a "state of grace"? Please.

He is doing a great service to those who have been injured (in innumerable ways) by organized religious charlatans! I am grateful to have someone who knows the inside scoop illuminating it for the rest of us. I'd think everyone who has doubts would appreciate the candor and respectful posts Klassfied puts on these boards.

I now, personally, feel closer to grace than I ever, ever, ever did while participating in the weekly shaming rituals that were mandatory. It is a private journey. One needs NO "preacher" in a fancy robe or glitzy house or shimmering bejewelled church to be close to God/the Divine. It is our birthright.

I am filled with grace each time I plant a flower...each time I rescue a fallen fledgling, each time I commune with my animal companions, or walk in the woods, or climb a mountain, or swim in a cool lake, or hug my children, or laugh out loud, or admire the sky, or feel love.

Church, from my personal experience, is a dark, artificial BUMMER. Crossing the threshold of an ostentatious building on a weekly basis does not bestow "grace".

Emily Dickinson said it well:

If I can stop one heart from breaking,
I shall not live in vain;
If I can ease one life the aching,
Or cool one pain,
Or help one fainting robin
Unto his nest again,
I shall not live in vain.

I have done those things, and they are far more rewarding than putting currency in a brass dish and telling God what a loser I am.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

Not as much as when I was in the church to be sure. Though it wasn't exactly happening all the time there either. But what I have seen has been just as amazing. And lasting usually. Unlike some of the times I was asked by people in the church why their healing didn't last. Not always an easy question to answer, especially when that person is deeply hurt emotionally. Of course, it's always their own fault the healing didn't last. Or they weren't really healed to start with. That's what the church often teaches anyway.

A good question. Thanks.

Oops. Almost forgot. For me at least, the ending is very happy. I feel freer now than I've ever felt. As well, I don't have the sword of Damocles hanging over my head.

edit on 6/28/2012 by Klassified because: eta

The reason the healing doesn't last is because these bodies have to die. As we live and breathe, every breath we take our bodies are decaying out from under us with each passing second. As Lazarus was resurrected, he too had to die again. You can heal many things, all at once, but something else will break down because thats the way these corrupted bodies work. Healing not lasting has nothing to do with lack of faith, that is the excuse of people who do not know what they are talking about nor is their knowledge of scripture very great. From dust we came, to dust we return and that is the order as it was handed own to Adama after his fall.

An interesting story, and thank you for contributing to the calm discussion of religion on this forum.
Imagine, a sub-forum which is supposed to be about "share your own faith-based experiences" is actually being used to discuss faith-based experience (instead of the usual sniping).

Earlier this month, I was in Evanston, Ill (a close-in north suburb of Chicago). The Bahai Temple there in Wilmette (visible from the football stadium at Northwestern University..just the other side of the city boundaries) is an extraordinary building...it is mind boggling that men built it, and it is utterly beautiful -- a testament to the capabilities of men.
source
I had seen it many times from the street, but this time I went there with my family, to see what is was like closer up and inside.

The grounds are beautiful; it is a nine-sided building, and on each of the nine sides there are formal gardens -- almost all of them identical (the main entrance garden being slightly different, with a reflecting pool that has a waterfall). While we walked about the perfectly groomed gardens on a stunningly beautiful day, with the cool breezes of Lake Michigan lightly tousling our hair and clothing, a fawn stepped out from the shrubbery. Not a brand new fawn, but a Bambi just the same -- still with spots, spindly legged. It saw us, and was unafraid. My kid was able to walk quietly up to sit right across a planter from it for some long moments. It trotted off, finally.

And this is in the very deepest cosmopolitan heart of Chicago, an enormous city. It was a testament to the peaceful atmosphere that a doe had given birth and her fawn was comfortable walking among the perfectly groomed gardens.

Nevertheless, when we entered the stunning building and were enveloped by the silence (required, all though there were rude folks whispering loudly to each other anyway)...and took a seat to gaze up at the filagreed dome, I felt....
nothing. No divine presence. No soul-lifting ecstasy. Just peace and quiet, inside a beautiful building, which alone are fine.

(And strangely, it is far less impressive from the inside than it is from the outside. )
The structure is a remarkable accomplishment, to be sure. But I did not feel "God" there, despite the fact that the faith is represented as being the "one all-encompassing faith" (if you look at the source, you can read about it.) The filagree work has symbols from all major world religions embedded in each pillar:


I got more a sense of "grace" from the flowers, the reflecting pools, and the fawn than I did from the exceptionally beautiful building constructed to honor God. I did, nevertheless, feel a sense of awe that man could build such a lovely structure. But...at what cost?

Any thoughts?

Matthew 13

New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Sower

13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
=======================================================

But my guess is you really haven't fallen away completely. I see that you try to over analyse everything. Why do you have to figure it all out? You don't have to. It says in the bible "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved". You don't have to go crazy over figuring it all out. Again you think you fallen away but God has new plans for you, you'll see.

reply to post by wildtimes

If I remember correctly, the Bahai believe that all the "spiritual" leaders throughout history were sent by God to unify mankind into a global civilization. Where they stand on global governance, I'm not sure. I know they are a very young religion.

Definitely a meticulous structure with a Hindu or Bagan Myanmar flare to it. Interesting too that it's all white.

reply to post by r2d246

Interesting choice of scripture to quote. It is true that I am an analytical person, always have been. But this...

But my guess is you really haven't fallen away completely. I see that you try to over analyse everything. Why do you have to figure it all out? You don't have to. It says in the bible "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved". You don't have to go crazy over figuring it all out. Again you think you fallen away but God has new plans for you, you'll see.

...sounds like me encouraging someone who has backslid, oh so many years ago. I like it, it's positive.
As analytical as I may be. I love simplicity. Simplicity is "divine".

Thanks for the input.

reply to post by Klassified

If I remember correctly, the Bahai believe that all the "spiritual" leaders throughout history were sent by God to unify mankind into a global civilization.

Would that not be grand??
If only we all would just think about one another's welfare....all pitch in, to take care of all....

If only.

reply to post by wildtimes

Yes. Unfortunately, our first order of business would have to be ridding the world of those who only love the idea, as long as they are the rulers of it. Otherwise, it would be a disaster for all of us.