It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The church is not EVIL

page: 2
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 06:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Now I know about the pagan origins of Christmas and it's ties to pagan holidays like Saturnalia and Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, but where do you get the info that he was conceived during Kislev?
edit on 6/27/12 by shaluach because: Misspelling



The Bible does not specifically say the date of Jesus’ birth. It was not during the winter months because the sheep were in the pasture (Luke 2:8). A study of the time of the conception of John the Baptist reveals he was conceived about Sivan 30, the eleventh week (Luke 1:8-13, 24). Adding forty weeks for a normal pregnancy reveals that John the Baptist was born on or about Passover (Nisan 14). Six months after John’s conception, Mary conceived Jesus (Luke 1:26-33); therefore Jesus would have been conceived six months after Sivan 30 in the month of Kislev—Hanukkah. Was the “light of the world,” conceived on the festival of lights? Starting at Hanukkah, which begins on Kislev 25 and continues for eight days, and counting through the nine months of Mary’s pregnancy, one arrives at the approximate time of the birth of Jesus at the Festival of Tabernacles.


Source

Feast of Tabernacles (Booths) is Sukkot (shu-coat). He was born when it was still warm, so no freezing baby in a manger.




posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 07:05 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Wow. That's amazing. Thank you for this, ahch!

So he would have been born roughly in late Aug. or early Sept?
edit on 6/27/12 by shaluach because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 07:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Jordan River
 


If you defend a paedophile organisation then you are just as bad as a paedophile.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Wow. That's amazing. Thank you for this, ahch!

So he would have been born roughly in late Aug. or early Sept?
edit on 6/27/12 by shaluach because: (no reason given)


About mid september early october, right around Sukkot.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 10:22 PM
link   
To fanatically follow any ‘god’ or religion where the sole purpose is to control and manipulate people under the disguise of ‘helping them’ IS EVIL.

If you don’t believe the thousands of documented cases of child abuse and paedophilia, then you are condoning these actions and you are just as guilty as a perpetrator.

Any religion or ‘god’ that needs money or people to worship it is a travesty; churches only help people they think they can influence or gain more power from.

The pope could feed the world if he was charitable, but he refuses and continues to fill bank accounts with no end in sight…….

Therefore in MY opinion (which is just as good as YOUR opinion) the church, whatever god you wish to follow out of the many of thousands invented - all of it is a burden on the advancement of human kind and therefore you and your church and the god you think you represent IS EVIL to society as a whole.

Mickirocksman



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by 0mage
Dark ages
burned books (PERSECUTED JESUS' FOLLOWERS)
Murdered the SAINTS and called their murderous pawns "Saints"
hidden knowledge in vatican library
persecution of muslims
Said earth is flat so dont wander off (away from their area of control of their community)
Dont go to the moon or God will be upset and kill us all
Accepts Gays
Killed millions and millions of innocents
Foster capitalism which is against freedom of the individual (in bed with politicians)


Hi,

Could you please expand on these bullet points with some supporting facts?

Thanks,

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by 0mage
Let us all have a day to honour Nimrod the Pagan God 25TH December

WHILE THEY HORDE EVERY DOLLAR THEY CAN REFRAIN FROM SPENDING!


Date of Christmas:
'In ancient Judaism, there was a common belief, which ancient Christians inherited, that the prophets of Israel died on the on the same date as their birth or conception. This may be behind the long-standing Christian custom of referring to the date of a martyr’s death as their “birthday in heaven.” According to ancient western calculations, Jesus was crucified on 25 March, so they assumed that 25 March was the date of Jesus’ conception. The Annunciation is still commemorated on that date to this day. Nine months after 25 March leads to 25 December, which would be the birthday of Jesus Christ if all those assumptions and calculations were correct. They aren’t correct, but the fact remains that the date has a Christian origin.'
www.kencollins.com...

When you say hording every dollar and refraining from spending, are you referring to the $ spent on hospices, schools, orphanages, hospitals, food banks, kitchens, St. Vincent De Paul shops, etc.?

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Jordan River
 


The fact that the R.C.C. breaks the Council of Jerusalem and replaced it with it's own doctrines makes it apostate. You can look at the past 1700 years of that church and see a path of destruction that probably makes Christ's hair stand on end in anger. Not one damn thing they ever did, did he sanction. The 600 year inquisition saw an estimated 500 million dead, and not pagans because there were no pagans in europe by the time the crusades started and the crusades ontop if that. The 500 million murdered were protestants from Peter Waldo's movement burned or tutured horribly as "heretics" and jews who refused to convert.


Can you please support these claims with historical studies?

Thanks,

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by 0mage

My point is.. The church has supported capitalism. This world has never had ANY NEED for a monetary system of Trade. The Church had the Power to rival the FAKE KINGS AND QUEENS. To bring peace to the earth and end the inhumane system of inequality and suffering of the poor completely by LEAVING EVERYTHING as it always was

FREE!


Things haven't been free in millenia. That has nothing to do with the Church. Commerce in one form or another predates the Church.

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


The Pope and his cronies, don't give a damn about you, or anybody else for that matter. If they did, they would not hold on to trillions of dollars in assets and coin instead of actually helping people as is there mandate.


Can you support that assertion?

Thanks,

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Yeshua was not born on december 25th, thats a Roman Catholic invention.


Please see the above response to this and further, the Catholic Church does not teach that Christ was born on Dec. 25th.

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Yeshua was not born on december 25th, thats a Roman Catholic invention.


Please see the above response to this and further, the Catholic Church does not teach that Christ was born on Dec. 25th.

Eric


So you're going to sit there and tell me "St. Nick" a.k.a. Santa Claus who "knows when you are sleeping, and knows when you're awake, knows when you are good or bad so be good for goodness sake" (wow he's like...GOD!) wasn't a catholic invention? "Saint Nicholas" was a real guy, and he appeared on december 25th to deliver gifts. Then there's the fir tree, all of this originates from Saturnalia which was a pagan Roman Holiday later renamed Christmas which was celebrated as "Christ's birthday". You can follow the breadcrumbs right back to the Vatican. Funny how Saturnalia disappeared as a holiday and Christmas arose right around the time Constantine took power and the Council of Nicea. let's see what Tertullian has to say about the holiday.

"On your day of pagan gladness, we [Christians]
Neither cover our doorposts with wreaths...
You consider it a proper thing to decorate your
house like some new brothel...but we do not
celebrate along with you the holidays..."
-(Tertullian, (A.D. 155-220), 2001, p. 1176).
(quoted by David Bercot,
A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs,
1998, p. 342).

December 25th was the birth of the pagan Roman sungod Sol Invictus, by which the official cult of arose not even 40 years before Constantine took power in 274 A.D.

Wanna know what symbol Constantine saw in the sky? A cross under the sun?



Here it is. A solar disc, except the "cross" is averted...but a circle with a cross ontop is symbol for female.



Which is also an egyptian ahnk or cross.



So we see a sun disc, and a symbol for female. Solar disc+female symbol = sungoddess, who is Ishtar/Inanna and many other names including catholic Mary who is the "bright and morning star" in catholicism.

Catholicism is at least 3 pagan religions masquerading as christianity, of which is Mithraism, Dagonism and Heliolatry. Even the Pope's Mitre looks like the mitres from the priesthood of Dagon, and the priests of Dagon were not allowed to marry or have sex. Here's the popes mitre compare to a priest of Dagon.




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000


So you're going to sit there and tell me "St. Nick" a.k.a. Santa Claus who "knows when you are sleeping, and knows when you're awake, knows when you are good or bad so be good for goodness sake" (wow he's like...GOD!) wasn't a catholic invention? "Saint Nicholas" was a real guy, and he appeared on december 25th to deliver gifts. Then there's the fir tree, all of this originates from Saturnalia which was a pagan Roman Holiday later renamed Christmas which was celebrated as "Christ's birthday". You can follow the breadcrumbs right back to the Vatican. Funny how Saturnalia disappeared as a holiday and Christmas arose right around the time Constantine took power and the Council of Nicea. let's see what Tertullian has to say about the holiday.


You're not seriously using a song for children from the last century created by a banjo player in the 1930's to bolster your argument, are you?

Let's go back to basics:

1) The Catholic Church does not teach that Christ was born on Dec. 25th.
2) St. Nicholas did not distribute gifts on Dec. 25th.
3) As the link demonstrates, Christians (mistakenly) dated the birth of Christ to the 25th prior to the Council of Nicea.
4) Saturnalia was not celebrated on Dec. 25th.

I'm not going into the Dagon hat or the monstrance in an effort to stay on topic, but feel free to bring them up in a separate thread or refer back to the other threads in which we've discussed them.

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:10 PM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 


No, but Dies Natalis Solis Invicti was. And Saturnalia was celebrated usually between the 17th and the 23rd. Both were centered around the Winter Solstice. Christmas on the 25th is pagan in origin, no matter how much you wish to deny this fact.
edit on 6/28/12 by shaluach because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by EricD
 


No, but Dies Natalis Solis Invicti was. And Saturnalia was celebrated usually between the 17th and the 23rd. Both were centered around the Winter Solstice. Christmas on the 25th is pagan in origin, no matter how much you wish to deny this fact.
edit on 6/28/12 by shaluach because: (no reason given)


Actually, I'm not denying anything, just correcting factual errors. I don't know and I'm fine with admitting that.

I also don't think it matters.

God can and has sanctified pagan practices for use by His people. Circumcision comes to mind. Wedding rings are another (although that's not clearly sanctioned by God like circumcision is).

Traditional claims from before the year 200 had the date of Jesus' conception as March 25. Add 9 months to that and you have Dec. 25. That certainly predates the Council of Nicea.

Eric
edit on 28-6-2012 by EricD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:50 PM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 


Actually it does matter. Our Creator told us to avoid pagan practices. A lot of the Laws of Moses are based around not following pagan practices (like tattooing or cutting your beard). And the Father told us not to have other gods before Him. Following pagan holiday traditions is acknowledging those false gods.

The Most High sanctifying a practice is not the same as a bunch of humans (the Catholic church) saying that a pagan practice is okay, especially when it's for the purpose of blending the two practices and drawing pagans into your religion.

And your "traditional claims" about the conception of Yehoshuah was explained in a prior post by LoneWolf. Look back at it. And where do you get that was a "traditional claim" prior to 200AD?
edit on 6/28/12 by shaluach because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:22 PM
link   
The Commentary on the Prophet Daniel references previous mentions and it was written in 204 ad.

Eric



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:26 PM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 


Source citations would really help you right now. As of right now it's all unsubstantiated claims. Both the claim that it was mentioned where you say it was mentioned and the dating of said mention. I'd like to see the validity of these claims before even dealing with them.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


The Pope and his cronies, don't give a damn about you, or anybody else for that matter. If they did, they would not hold on to trillions of dollars in assets and coin instead of actually helping people as is there mandate.


Can you support that assertion?

Thanks,

Eric


I did prove it.

The Vatican is holding on to TRILLIONS of dollars worth of assets and money. Why aren't they giving it all away to help the poor and the needy? Why aren't they actually looking into the problem of child molestation that is rampant in the church?

It's the Church that needs to prove to me, that it's not evil. Not the other way around.

~Tenth



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by EricD
The Commentary on the Prophet Daniel references previous mentions and it was written in 204 ad.

Eric


Well I did your research for you because I got tired of waiting and the first thing I found was a reference in the Sol Invictus entry on Wikipedia which led to this source citation.

Now I went back and looked and you mentioned the Nicene Creed, which I did not. Perhaps LoneWolf did. I don't know. I didn't see it. Regardless, it's irrelevant to what I'm saying, because the Nicene Creed (and the adoption of Christianity as the State Religion of Constantine's empire) were not the beginning of the corruption of the message of the Scriptures (although it certainly helped).

So who wrote this commentary? Hippolytus. He was a member of the Church of Rome which would be the Roman Catholics (who were the earliest corrupters of the message of the Scriptures). So right there paints him in a negative light. The Church of Rome was known for adopting pagan practices to appeal to the pagans.

Furthermore the article says that he places the "genesis of Christ" on April 2nd and he "concludes" that this refers to his conception and not his birth. From what I see it doesn't say how he reached this conclusion.

I'd have to say that Hippolytus has no sources to back up his claim; it was merely another Catholic invention.

LoneWolf's previous explanation about the date and when it would have fallen makes a lot more sense and coincides with Scripture.

If I missed something or am mistaken on one of my points from the source article that I cited, please show me where.




top topics



 
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join