The double slit experiment, what if...?.(calling all scientific and philosophical minds of ATS)

I've been wanting to comment all day on the double slit experiment that was under discussion in another thread on the topic of death being an illusion and as I was typing my response an idea just entered my mind. What if we looked at the slit experiment through completely different eyes?

What if rather than particles having mass, it is the space between that is the mass object and the particle that is the space. What then do we have? We have a reality in which everything is one large mass with some wholes in it.


Let's assume this large mass is like jelly or water and a bubble of space (particle) can move through the jelly and when ever it moves the jelly fuses back together into one mass and it is only where the bubble is where there is any separation.

So using that as our mental projection then what would the slit experiment be? Well it would be not two slits in a wall but rather two sticks in space. The particle would be two holes in the same space and the result of the experiment would be the points where there were no hits on the other side of the sticks.

This is where I call on the ATS physicists, chemists and philosophical theorist to come up with an interpretation of the slit experiment (using the same results as we already have). What could in this scenario be the cause for the two differing results? Now that everything is connected would the interpretation of the results be any different from how it has been interpreted?

What would a reality like that mean for all that we know of particle physics in relation to this particular experiment?

Just thought it would be a fun mental challenge to figure this out and perhaps in thinking on this we come to some insight into the reality version? (or maybe we find that this reversed thinking makes more sense in any case have fun)

Link to the wiki on double slit experiment for those who want to remind them selves of the premise and results on surface level. en.wikipedia.org...

Anything goes in this discussion as long as we stick to the reverse thinking that everything we see as matter is in reality the space between.

And yes it might collapse a whole host of the physics we know but that is the point think inside this reverse reality box with me for a moment

Have fun

reply to post by IAmD1


i think that everything is alive in its own way, and thats why things happen like in this experiment





peace.




edit again:



so your saying:


OUTER SPACE, is the real thing that is heavy, and the sun, the earth, the moon, and all the other stars and planets are technically HOLES in the universe?


whoaaaa....

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


Ouch! That really shot me down, is that what you think after reading the premise of my OP? :/
I was kind of hoping for a philosophical discussion based in science on the premise that the space is the matter and the matter is the space. I like you in most discussions but feel like you've not really taken the idea of this premise to heart. Would love to hear what your mind can think up if it took some time to actually look at the idea as supposed to dismiss it on the premise that you think you already know. If you have already thought in these terms it would be wonderful to hear what your thoughts were at the time and how you then came to the above conclusion.

Please come back

I posted before you added your edit above. I'm glad you read it through again .... so what say you?

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by IAmD1

 

i think that everything is alive in its own way, and thats why things happen like in this experiment





peace.

edit on 27-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)

edit again:



so your saying:


OUTER SPACE, is the real thing that is heavy, and the sun, the earth, the moon, and all the other stars and planets are technically HOLES in the universe?


whoaaaa....

edit on 27-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)

Yes yes that is what I am proposing as the premise of discussion

Originally posted by IAmD1
reply to post by SoymilkAlaska

 

Ouch! That really shot me down, is that what you think after reading the premise of my OP? :/
I was kind of hoping for a philosophical discussion based in science on the premise that the space is the matter and the matter is the space. I like you in most discussions but feel like you've not really taken the idea of this premise to heart. Would love to hear what your mind can think up if it took some time to actually look at the idea as supposed to dismiss it on the premise that you think you already know. If you have already thought in these terms it would be wonderful to hear what your thoughts were at the time and how you then came to the above conclusion.

Please come back

hmmm, ok ill give it another go.


but i don't think i know anything about nothing!

peace.


(reading it again)

Originally posted by IAmD1

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by IAmD1

 

i think that everything is alive in its own way, and thats why things happen like in this experiment





peace.

edit on 27-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)

edit again:



so your saying:


OUTER SPACE, is the real thing that is heavy, and the sun, the earth, the moon, and all the other stars and planets are technically HOLES in the universe?


whoaaaa....

edit on 27-6-2012 by SoymilkAlaska because: (no reason given)

Yes yes that is what I am proposing as the premise of discussion

OH so your other reply is to MY reply before i edited.

OKAY....

ok

peace.

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


I meant 'know' as in you had an idea of what you believe at this moment in time not as in you are telling the world that you have all the answers so apologies for the way I worded that. Like I said I usually like what you have to say

So what do you think. Any ideas?

reply to post by IAmD1


What is the mathematical foundation of this premise. Quantum electrodynamics has a mathematical underpinning that can be used to evaluate the idea. Likewise, quantum chromodynamics has a rigid mathematical structure. Does your new mass(particle) obey the Schrodinger wave equation? And if so, does the math show a linear or nonlinear equation, and what are the constants used to make the equation time independant?
Without looking at the mathematical foundations of tour new idea, any analysis is just so much metaphysical rambling.

reply to post by IAmD1


i have always thought about, what is nothing.


i always wondered how someone would get 1 out of 0+0=


my temporary conclusion (unless more new evidence and information arises)




there's two different or maybe i should say separate "nothings" in the same area more or less.


(nothing)(nothing) (they are two 0's ) lets look closer



(nothing)(nothing)



a little closer ^_^




(nothing)(nothing)



CLOSER YOU FOOL!!!!!! /rage lolololol


(nothing)(something)(nothing)



0, could in fact be a place marker ^_^


a simple negative line drawn in the sand of existence.



but what if it was all backwards? (

I love your jelly analogy, but what if we change the words around a bit.

What if, instead of the jelly being represented as "mass", we change it to reality.
And the bubbles we change to humanity's virtual perception.

As in the double slit experiment, we create our own view, hence the bubbles exist because we believe they exist, based on our experience with others' descriptions of their bubbles, all of our lives. Someone else gave the bubbles their reality. We accept that reality and further propagate the bubble's existence.

Man...This could go deep!

Ima tink on it a bit mo'......

Goofy & soy thank you ... now we are talking

I also have to do some thinking on the implications of my own thought it is brand new so didn't have time to formulate any ideas about what would happen in my scenario yet. So much to consider. I am thinking along the lines of using what we know of the behaviour of bubbles in a medium presented with a medium of varying density. Density depending on how many bubbles, the size and proximity of the bubbles to one another in any given location.

This variation in bubbles would give rise to the various 'objects' that we perceive. hmmm i really need to give this some thought for it to make sense

Originally posted by IAmD1
Goofy & soy thank you ... now we are talking

I also have to do some thinking on the implications of my own thought it is brand new so didn't have time to formulate any ideas about what would happen in my scenario yet. So much to consider. I am thinking along the lines of using what we know of the behaviour of bubbles in a medium presented with a medium of varying density. Density depending on how many bubbles, the size and proximity of the bubbles to one another in any given location.

This variation in bubbles would give rise to the various 'objects' that we perceive. hmmm i really need to give this some thought for it to make sense

WAIT.... so in theory, what your saying is-


black holes pull in so much stuff, because they are

#1 full of massive awareness and civilizations

#2 full of infinitely large amounts of severely perceptive and intelligent bacteria or other life???


if you go through a black hole, do you fall "out" "INTO" someones imagination in another universe?


perception is reality, and we could all be REAL, but at the same time be floating in someones mind.

In order to truly understand whats going on with the double slit experiment or (DSE) it would be very helpful if you can grasp how the workings of the CPU in a computer works how calculations are made and render into the screen.

In the computer world millions upon millions of calculations are going on in the CPU and these calculations are pass off in a binary format of 0s,1s to be encoded and decoded into algorithms. This data of information needs to be displayed or be viewed or have an OBSERVER in some format if not then that data is well... just data.

In 3d programming for video gaming. One good practice in this field is when objects are closer to the viewer (monitor screen) they contain more data or in 3d... vertices (or particles) which makes up polygons and other geometric patterns to define details in the object like a human or an animal. Now if this object is further away, the programmer can get away using less vertices or polygons in the object because that data cannot be seen by the viewer at the scale thus increasing computation performance, therefor the calculations for the vertices are less frequent and loosely. When there's objects that don't make it into the viewable screen then those vertices simply don't get calculated into the render batch.

Similarly this is how the DSE works. When there's no observer the particles can act more loosely in the form of a wave format but as soon there's an observer the particles align themselves to be render by our brains.

You see our eyes pick up these light particles and passes this information to brain. This is why scientist are trying to find out how and in what format or algorithm does this information get interpreted by the brain because if you know the answer to this you can pretty much control everything in the human anatomy but our limited understanding of the brain, it's far too complex for us to understand at this at the moment. Some like to speculate that this information gets passed off in a similar way as CPU in a binaural way, because binary (from what we know) is the simplest form of describing information. And this can be said for our other senses, touch, taste, hear, smell, our senses pick up this information that is around in our reality and our brains render this information in correspondence to which sense picked this information that way when our ears pick up the sound vibrations data and our brains render it as sound or noise, if our ears pick up sound vibration and we start tasting something funny then we have screwed up senses.

In our reality there's an infinite amount of calculations of information happening whether our senses pick up and observe this information or not but the calculations do happen at a quantum level as proposed by Prof. James Gates who claims in his findings in the super string theory that we live a binary world. I know this is hard to grasp especially if you have no programming background but with enough study and meditation on this subject the light begins to reveal and this why the DSE makes perfect sense

reply to post by IAmD1


I like your thought. Imagining all matter as really empty space and the vaccum as being solid is quite wonderfull.

It is a great mental exercise.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Thank you
The more I've been spending my evening thinking on those lines the more fascinated I have become with the idea. But I can not come up with a clear thought on how that would affect the slit experiment just yet. So I'm still playing with the general idea in my mind for a while.

reply to post by samaka


I believe I have enough programming experience to follow .... I like the idea of a binary world but how would that apply to my original question of - in a reverse reality where space was solid and particles where not how would the slit experiment be interpreted and what should happen in such a world based on what we know.

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska

Originally posted by IAmD1
Goofy & soy thank you ... now we are talking

I also have to do some thinking on the implications of my own thought it is brand new so didn't have time to formulate any ideas about what would happen in my scenario yet. So much to consider. I am thinking along the lines of using what we know of the behaviour of bubbles in a medium presented with a medium of varying density. Density depending on how many bubbles, the size and proximity of the bubbles to one another in any given location.

This variation in bubbles would give rise to the various 'objects' that we perceive. hmmm i really need to give this some thought for it to make sense

WAIT.... so in theory, what your saying is-


black holes pull in so much stuff, because they are

#1 full of massive awareness and civilizations

#2 full of infinitely large amounts of severely perceptive and intelligent bacteria or other life???


if you go through a black hole, do you fall "out" "INTO" someones imagination in another universe?


perception is reality, and we could all be REAL, but at the same time be floating in someones mind.

No that is what you are saying
I think I am saying what is said above which is basically I'm just trying to draw up the idea of the solid space reality in my min for now see where I end up with that

reply to post by IAmD1


Well the electron isn't just a point particle. It has an electric/magnetic field. I believe an electric/magnetic field can be thought of as a sea of virtual particles surrounding the electron. Similar to the vacuum energy virtual particles but different in a sense that it is modified or excited by the electron being there. So I think you are correct there is much more to the electron than just the point particle. There is the point particle and it's surrounding virtual particles. When I think of the virtual particle field this way I can imagine the electron point particle going through a slit but the virtual particles dividing and going through both and interacting with each other on the other side causing the diffraction pattern observed.

Also interesting to note is we don't usually see virtual particles they are very energetic and short lived but once in a while if you accelerate an electron enough you might convert a virtual photon around the electron into a real one.

Now this is stuff I've read over the years. I'm not sure if it is correct but it's definitely good food for thought.

reply to post by samaka


Maybe the thing is that,,,,,,, energy,,, or the stuff needs to be rendered and computed at the smallest quantum level yet space is the macroest phenomenon,.,.,.,.

say inside a computer, the dimensions, and scale of microchips and what not,,, if you were an observer that microly small in that computer,,,,, like we see vast expanses of space in the universe,,,, wouldnt there be relatively a vast amount of space in that small dimension?

reply to post by IAmD1


I posted the comment about the double slit experiment. Most peeps seemed to want to totally discount a theory that has stood the test of time, but hey to each his own.

if you actually do the experiment it will immediately become clear that it does in fact work, every single time, no matter the distance of the light source from the slits. It is uterly baffling to watch it unfold.

Are you trying to say that what we in the space time we inhabit percieve them as being slits, but infact the slits are the solid part and the media the slits are present in is actually the empty space?