American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI, page 7


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 44 times


reply posted on 26-6-2012 @ 11:58 PM by DeadSeraph
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by WorkingClassMan


I did contradict myself there, it's late. There's a fine line between protesting and harassing and I think the Christians did cross that line and in some places that is an offense you can be arrested for. That said, I'm all for free speech and assembly but these guys, their message is disgusting and un-American in my opinion.


So it's ok to assault them because you don't like their message. Just checking. Say, any particular event you feel like voicing your opinion about in public? Because I have a few friends and we might be able to change your mind on tolerance (or perhaps harden your heart).

How would you feel if this was a gay rights group being pelted for showing up at a rally, or a womens rights or african american rights group showing up and being pelted? I have a feeling your opinions would change.

It is obvious you are only for freedom of speech and religion up to but not including Christians.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:00 AM by charles1952
I know I'm out of the mainstream of this thread which seems to be religion versus religion, and they provoked it so they deserved it. May I look at it without religion for just a moment?

The position of some here is that a group of people who set out to irritate, annoy, make uncomfortable another group of people should expect a response, even a physical one, from the group being annoyed. How far can this theory go? Certainly people at Gay Pride marches and church takeovers irritate people. So do Romney supporters who heckle Axlerod, or Obama supporters who do the same to Romney. But they are not met with violence.

Did the Wall Street executives throw things at OWS? (I don't mean paper.) How about Union members intimidating workers, do the workers throw things? Greenpeace interfering with fishing, do the fishermen try to hit the protesters with heavy objects?

Some of the motives of these groups are good, "raising consciousness" is a common one. Some motives are bad. But the motive is never much discussed other than in self-justifying press releases.

My problem here is with a group responding with physical violence to an irritation (or whatever you want to call it) caused by another group. This is not where we are as a country. Sue? Sure, everybody is always suing somebody, but this?

I think it's a step in the wrong direction. A step towards physical intimidation and suppression. I don't like it at all, it seems un-American in a way.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:08 AM by defcon5
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

This is an interesting one.
On one hand you do have the right to free speech, on the other hand you do not have the right to incite a riot, cause a panic, or publicly broadcast profanity. So there are limits to what the government considers your freedom of speech. The law will most like find these guys in violation for causing a riot, and the police have the right to remove them and protect the public. Walking through a Muslim fair with signs stating something to the effect that they will be “thrown into the lake of fire”, is nothing more then inciting a riot.

I have to question the the motive of "Christians" such as this. To me they are simply bigots in sheep’s clothing, using Christianity as an excuse to voice their racial prejudice. After all, Christ himself tells Christians not to engage in this type of antagonistic behavior with unbelievers:

Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts — 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:09 AM by Kali74
reply to post by DeadSeraph


I'm for Freedom for everyone including Christians and Muslims. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. These Christian guys have the right to show up there, I don't think they should, but they have the right. I think they crossed the line into harassment. I wish these guys were for Freedom as well.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:14 AM by Kali74
reply to post by charles1952


Defcon5 says it well...
inciting a riot.

I think your points have a lot of validity though.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:18 AM by BobAthome
reply to post by defcon5


that my friend ,,was whilst he was alive.
He,,,gave different ,,instructions,,for once he left this Earth,,raised up.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:24 AM by cavtrooper7
reply to post by AwakeinNM


Of course nobody has done it,they aren't stupid enough to try.If they got ahold of the church burner before the authorities did he would have been roughed up a bit.
I didn't indicate there was a pig's head but there was a thread where there was a pig's head carried into a muslim festival my comments and premise were based on that incident.
It is not Christian nor a friendly act to bear a severed head of ANY type to a religious gathering. I do believe you can follow my logic without much confusion.
The Jewish faith ,Christian faith and Muslim faith all reach for the same essential pantheon.It is a tenant of Christianity not to judge as that is God's job.Running around with a dead animal's head isn't any act of my faith and we should be reaching out our hands as we are traditional raised to.If the Muslims in question reject us so be it.I my self have seen them act surprised and thankful. We need to return to a more polite culture for those who are open to it.Yes we will have criminal supremacists still. We just have to be the better people and lead by example and welcome the moderates.
I have been contacted by muslims ON THIS BOARD who were scared because they thought we would arrest them and retaliate against them and that really burns my butt.It is in that spirit I was speaking my mind.
edit on 27-6-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: finished my point



reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:46 AM by charles1952
reply to post by Kali74 and defcon5

OK, let's explore this "incitement to riot" business. I think there's a good point there but I'm a little uncertain. Here's the Michigan statute:
752.542 Inciting to riot.
Sec. 2.

It is unlawful and constitutes incitement to riot for a person or persons, intending to cause or to aid or abet the institution or maintenance of a riot, to do an act or engage in conduct that urges other persons to commit acts of unlawful force or violence, or the unlawful burning or destroying of property, or the unlawful interference with a police officer, peace officer, fireman or a member of the Michigan national guard or any unit of the armed services officially assigned to riot duty in the lawful performance of his duty. (Emphasis added)
My one small area of confusion here is the word "urges." Certainly the Muslims were provoked, but urged? This is not a slam dunk case. It would be hard to show that the Christians urged the Muslims to throw things, but you never know how a court will rule.

My second problem is the same one I have with many statutes, vagueness. When does irritating become urging? I like being irritated, and think it's essential to our country now and then, but this case? I'm not persuaded that the Christian fools violated a law. I'm more worried about escalating violence which should be stopped quickly.

With respect,
Charles1952


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 12:48 AM by defcon5
Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by defcon5


that my friend ,,was whilst he was alive.
He,,,gave different ,,instructions,,for once he left this Earth,,raised up.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I'm not going to say its not in there, but I don't recall anything that changed it.
The only difference that I recall is that they were allowed to teach to the Gentiles 3.5 years after the death of Christ.

The problem is that no Christian can change a persons heart, only the Holy Spirit can do that. If someone has a hardened heart to your teaching, there is no point in harassing them to change, you cannot make them. By being a pest, and acting like an ass, you only harden more peoples heart to your message.

In this instance, I find it VERY difficult to believe that they were there to convert anyone anyway. Certainly not with signs stating that Muslims would be cast into the “lake of fire” at judgment. What you really have here is a bunch of local Michiganders that obviously hate Muslims, and wanted to do nothing more then spew hatred at them, incite problems, and set themselves up for a nice lawsuit against the City of Dearborn. IMHO, these are not true Christians, they are a racist group using Christianity, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion, to spew hate.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 6/27/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 01:06 AM by MeesterB
Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by MeesterB
I just meant that it's a bit like going to the ghetto with a "white power" shirt on. You know the people are conditioned to violence and intolerance
and with this, are you conceding that a festival full of muslims are "conditioned to violence and intolerance" ??

if this is your stance, why should any Americans put up with/tolerate it ??




edit on 26-6-2012 by Honor93 because: fix grammar


I mean the middle east area has only been plagued with strife for the past 1-10 years, and both the American muslim kids and the christian group have been exposed to the very same news. Don't pretend like I'M the only one exposed to the propaganda.

Not every minority in the ghetto is violent/intolerant, but that's the way it's painted in the media.

Americans shouldn't tolerate intolerance, but most ATSers think the christians deserved it. Typical.


reply posted on 27-6-2012 @ 01:12 AM by samsamm9
reply to post by ollncasino


You seem to be on a mission, in so many threads you make a lot effort to denigrate Islam,
it's funny to me. But I admit, I wonder why. You know people like you are full of hate, I wonder why...

Are you intellectually superior to the rest of us ? You think you understand something and what, you want to help others understand what we didn't get ??
Were you raped by Muslims ?
Are you the type of fundamentalist Christian like in the Op video ?

Anyway, the fundamentalist Christians deserved all they got, it made me smile


By the way, stoning means "stones".
It was water bottles, frisbies, plastic boxes....but obviously not stones, or else are little Christian friend
would have more than a cross on his forehead
edit on 27-6-2012 by samsamm9 because: (no reason given)

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