Vintage Video: Joe Simonton and His Pancakes

This case has been around the circuit a few times, notably in a great thread last year by Kandinsky titled "Don't Be Alarmed. We're Martians.":

As an example we have the legend of Joe Simonton and his pancakes. . Back in ’61, Joe was taking it easy and getting ready for a late breakfast. He heard something outside and went to look. No doubt the last thing he expected to find was a strange craft right there on his doorstep. A hatch was open and three men in black roll-neck tops stood ready to prepare food. One of them motioned to him that he needed water and offered a ‘two-handled silver jug’; Joe filled the jug and returned it to the occupant. To cut to the chase, the guys cooked what Joe called ‘pancakes’ and gave him four of them to eat. The craft they were in shut up shop and flew away.

But this is the first time I've seen this video:



I always love finding contemporary videos covering these classic old cases. It's also fascinating to hear people tell of their strange experiences in the first person. I hope this one hasn't been posted before.

Enjoy.

What is also incredible about the fifties and early sixties are stories of first hand interactions with what I call, "scientist types." There was another man with an italien name who grew up in New York but moved to California. He actually started a comic book or something.

It's no wonder that the propaganda machine went into overdrive with witnesses like simonton. Who is not going to believe that guy? He struck me as honest, genuine and humble. The air force guy, however, seemed full of crap. The whole thing is mind boggling. Imagine hearing about this today.

reply to post by zarp3333


Thanks for the reply, zarp. And Quintanilla didn't just seem like he was full of crap; I'm pretty sure it was his actual medical diagnosis:

The investigation by Major Quintanilla actually consisted in a two minutes and a half phone call to the sole Dale Spaur, starting with this question: "tell me about this mirage you saw." Then a second one minute and a half phone was passed again only to Dale Spaur. According to a written and signed testimony by Spaur, Quintanilla wanted him to sign a text specifying that the sighting lasted only a few minutes. When Spaur protested that it was at least a 60 miles car chase covering two states, Quintanilla put an end to the conversation. It required Congressional pressures to have Quintanilla make his way to Ravenna to meet and interview Spaur and Neff. This time, Weitzel was there because Spaur asked him to tape his interview with Quintanilla. A partial transcription of the tape reproduced in Dr. J. Allen Hynek's first book "The UFO Experience," is very telling of the ways and manner of Quintanilla when he interrogated UFO witnesses.

The quote above refers to the infamous Portage County police chase incident and was taken from a top-notch thread by easynow

Originally posted by Orkojoker
This case has been around the circuit a few times, notably in a great thread last year by Kandinsky titled "Don't Be Alarmed. We're Martians.":

As an example we have the legend of Joe Simonton and his pancakes. . Back in ’61, Joe was taking it easy and getting ready for a late breakfast. He heard something outside and went to look. No doubt the last thing he expected to find was a strange craft right there on his doorstep. A hatch was open and three men in black roll-neck tops stood ready to prepare food. One of them motioned to him that he needed water and offered a ‘two-handled silver jug’; Joe filled the jug and returned it to the occupant. To cut to the chase, the guys cooked what Joe called ‘pancakes’ and gave him four of them to eat. The craft they were in shut up shop and flew away.

But this is the first time I've seen this video:

I always love finding contemporary videos covering these classic old cases. It's also fascinating to hear people tell of their strange experiences in the first person. I hope this one hasn't been posted before.

Enjoy.

edit on 26-6-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)

Jacques Vallée wrote about a similar case in which a french farmer saw a small disk land while tilling his field and was handed a pancake by a small being. This event took place in the French countryside in the late 40s as I recall. The story appeared in one of his early books (might have been dimensions), in which he used data from 'high-strangeness' cases specifically. I believe this was the book forwarded by Dr. Alan J. Hynek.

Both of them mentored one another and together quietly developed a paranormal theorem for what is now known as the terrestrial or dimensional (non-extraterrestrial) theory. What I would describe as holes in his conclusions came from assessing only the high-strangeness cases, which in my opinion created a narrow aperture for hypothesis, obfuscating the broad spectrum of events.

Although I've read some of his books, I have always kept to the idea that UFOs were nuts and bolts machines and that contacts with beings were physical and psychic in nature.

reply to post by g2v12


Thanks for your erudite reply, my friend. And welcome to ATS. I actually just started re-reading Dimensions today. My copy is forwarded by Whitley Streiber, but I also have Challenge to Science, to which Hynek wrote the forward. This latter book and the one that came before it - Anatomy of a Phenomenon - lean more toward the extraterrestrial hypothesis than do the books that came after them. If you haven't already read it, there's a book called The Edge of Reality which is basically an assemblage of transcripts of conversations between Vallee and Hynek on the subject of UFOs. Wasn't quite as compelling as I had expected it to be, but interesting - and totally unique - nonetheless.

That usage of the word "terrestrial" is something I haven't really seen before. I've heard the term "dimensional" or "interdimensional". Is terrestrial - the way you meant is - synonymous with dimensional, or does it refer to something else?

reply to post by Orkojoker
Excellent find Orko. I haven't seen it before and even Wendy Connors' Faded Discs missed out on any Simonton audio.

When he talks of seeing it through the kitchen window, then we see the window and the yard outside, the story becomes more visual. It's easier to imagine how he experienced whatever it was. Even years later, it's hard to be sure what the heck happened. His focus on the eyes foreshadowed later accounts from the Hills (Betty and Barney) through to the peak of the abduction accounts. That detail makes his claim an interesting one to me.

On the other hand, it's so bizarre that maybe he just made it all up? We'll probably never know.

Regarding the 'non-extraterrestrial' ideas of J Allen Hynek. In the late 70s, Hynek became a little exasperated by the scatter of reports CUFOS were receiving and the ones from even earlier. Don't forget he was a friend of Jacqes Vallee too and would be influenced by some of his ideas. Also the late '70s was the back-end of the humanoid encounters reports that had spread around rural America for a few years,

In the face of the data he had in the files, he began to find the ETH wasn't up to the task of explaining it all. So he came up with a word *meta-terrestrial.* This means he suspected some UFO reports as originating on Earth and not from 'out there.' He began to wonder if UFOs were related to 'psychic phenomenon' and that studying them as physical objects was a waste of time. He even got so far as to speculate that *they* were the signals that our own science was about to go through a vast change.

I like my ETH sophisticated and rooted in something material. The thing is, after a long time reading and listening to reports, it becomes like an elephant in the room that something isn't quite right with that explanation.

I remember reading this story when I was a kid, my only question is: why would aliens land for water and cook chow in this guys yard?

reply to post by HomerinNC


Probably because finding fresh water in interstellar space, or even interplanetary space can be a real nightmare

If true, this story simply proves how we humans have limitations on what we expect alien folks to act like..

To them, their pancakes could be like doritos to us, or something.. Even though to hear this seems funny or even rediculous, in a practical sense it actually seems like it could easily be normal for those visitors.. They just love their pancakes and can't be without them, even on long distance space journeys..

To be fair, NASA was coming up with goofy foods for the astronauts in the late 60's like Nalley's Space sticks and Tang drink mix, but that comes up short when compared to bringing a working habachi along for the ride

It also makes more sense to fire up the grill upon landing with the hatch open, rather than fill the craft with smoke outside an atmosphere..

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by g2v12

 

Thanks for your erudite reply, my friend. And welcome to ATS. I actually just started re-reading Dimensions today. My copy is forwarded by Whitley Streiber, but I also have Challenge to Science, to which Hynek wrote the forward. This latter book and the one that came before it - Anatomy of a Phenomenon - lean more toward the extraterrestrial hypothesis than do the books that came after them. If you haven't already read it, there's a book called The Edge of Reality which is basically an assemblage of transcripts of conversations between Vallee and Hynek on the subject of UFOs. Wasn't quite as compelling as I had expected it to be, but interesting - and totally unique - nonetheless.

That usage of the word "terrestrial" is something I haven't really seen before. I've heard the term "dimensional" or "interdimensional". Is terrestrial - the way you meant is - synonymous with dimensional, or does it refer to something else?

edit on 26-6-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)

He published a new book a couple of years ago, Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times. I intend on reading it because he wrote it without interjecting his own theories.

It may be his best work actually, because it deals strictly with research on UFO and contact cases that go back hundreds of years around the globe, and involve a number of well known personas from history as witnesses.

From members of Japanese royalty to Alexander the Great.

Amazingly, UFO and so-called extraterrestrial contact in history bare much of the same observations and experiences as in our day.

The consistency is quite amazing in its own way. I still believe in physical extraterrestrials. The paranormal idea isn't really new, but has likely caught on for the same reasons it did in ancient times. Some things never change.

What do you make of this topic? Have you ever seen a UFO or had a contact experience?

Originally posted by g2v12

What do you make of this topic? Have you ever seen a UFO or had a contact experience?

I've never seen anything in the sky that I haven't been able to come up with a likely explanation for, unfortunately. But I'm always looking! Never had anything resembling a contact experience either - thankfully, I think. My take on the subject of UFOs is that there is definitely something unusual and generally unrecognized happening, but things get a little fuzzier at that point.

I find it hard not to accept the reality of the phenomenon (or phenomena) after reading a fair amount of the serious literature on UFOs, watching and listening to witnesses tell of their own experiences. There is what I consider to be an impressive degree of consistency among certain subsets of the reports of unknowns. I don't know how many accounts I've read that end with something along the lines of "and then it just took off straight up at an unbelievable speed and was out of sight in two to three seconds."

The question of what these things are is rather up the air for me, although I favor the idea of some kind of non-human intelligence. The ETH seems like a fine guess for many reports, though maybe not so much for others. But as Kandinsky pointed out in another recent thread, the "where" is not as significant as the "who" and the "why". I don't think we're prepared to answer any of these questions very confidently right now, but the very fact "that" it's happening is the real bottom line.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by g2v12

What do you make of this topic? Have you ever seen a UFO or had a contact experience?

I've never seen anything in the sky that I haven't been able to come up with a likely explanation for, unfortunately...

Thanks for the welcome. Ats is a great forum.

In Vallée's new book, there is mention of how UFOs would abduct people at mid day in European towns hundreds of years ago. Strange craft would appear, a beam of light would descend upon people who would simply float up and into them from a crowd, and when they were returned - were promptly put to death for being witches. One can only imagine the trauma of an abduction by unknown beings, only to be crucified by his fellow man.

The abductions have been happening for quite a few generations, but only the tactics have changed somewhat. Perhaps because of human awareness and technological advances that may create complications for the abductors. Perhaps for more obvious concerns regarding the importance of using the human subjects more than once.

My interest began as a boy in the 60s, when I found my father's book about the Barney and Betty Hill case. Actually, I found several hours of interviews with Betty Hill from the 90s on You Tube. Betty sort of rambled on about things that I found rather oblique and based in human bias and filtering.

However, having endured the entire set of interviews, I was rewarded by finding some unique information that never appeared in the books.

(1.) First, she still had the original clothing article worn the night she was abducted with her husband. The dress was obviously torn. According to her recollection of the event, as she was escorted toward the entrance to the craft, she hesitated at the entrance and refused to go in. One of the humanoids she describes as second in command, who communicated with her in English (telepathically) forced her inside and tore the dress at the seam in the process. In the area of the tear is also seen a purple stain where her clothing was lab tested for substances that might help her case. Although, she couldn't say specifically what artifacts the testing hoped to find.

(2.) Secondly, at some point in time when her story broke and attracted public attention (after the regressive sessions, but before the book was written several years later) she was contacted by a scientist with credentials and invited to attend a weekend camping trip with a group of scientists. Some of them were apparently physicists, astronomers and such. She relates during an interview, how these gentlemen gathered with her around a campfire and politely asked her questions about the experience and the details of the craft she was in, as well the beings with whom she interacted.

She mentioned quite few minute details about them (the beings) who were very human-like, yet naive about things we humans take for granted. They apparently had no teeth, thus Barney's dentures, having been removed were a great curiosity to them and Betty was quite amused about their confusion.

One of the misconceptions that still circulates in the public arena, was about the physical attributes of Betty's humanoids. People tend to lump most abduction claims into the description of what are termed the Greys.

Betty's abductors were of average human height, hairless and white skinned. They had exposed ear canals without the fleshy lobes associated with humans, thin lips (but lips nevertheless), a pug nose and larger then human eyes, cat shaped pupils with yellow iris.

Watching hours of unedited live interviews, one can plainly ascertain that Betty is not particularly sophisticated or especially critical in her thinking. In fact, beyond her vivid memory of the event, her opinions are peppered with all sorts of non-scientific, even nonsensical assumptions about UFOs. There is a defined distinction between what she describes as the facts of her experience and what she personally concludes about the phenomena. I see this as quite amazing because it indicates (circumstantially) that her memory of the experience is lucid and effectual (valid/binding).

I think that the Hill story is probably the most fascinating and significant event of abduction in history, with ample physical evidence provided for us to consider.

I would like to ask if you have read the book and what your impression might be.

I really like this account. The high strangeness is through the roof. But what is more interesting to me is the pancake.

The fairy-folk of old lore, eat "manna". Manna, supposedly looks like a pancake.

reply to post by g2v12


I assume you're talking about The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller? I have read that one, but it was a few years ago. It doesn't stand out in my mind as one of my "favorites", but I was intrigued by the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions. I remember I did recommend it to my wife, so I must have thought something of it.

Aside from having read Fuller's book and listened to some of the hypnosis sessions online, I really don't know very much about the Hill case. As far as abductions go, I find it fascinating but I really don't know what to make of it. I've read John Mack's books on the subject, as well as a couple by Budd Hopkins and one by David Jacobs. The range of experiences reported by these people is rather wide, and I have trouble reconciling those described by Mack with those described by Jacobs and Hopkins. I've really not been able as of yet to put enough pieces together to decide what to think of the abduction phenomenon. It's definitely super interesting, and I believe that - at least to the abductees - what they experienced was completely real.

What do you think of it all?

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by g2v12

 

I assume you're talking about The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller? I have read that one, but it was a few years ago. It doesn't stand out in my mind as one of my "favorites", but I was intrigued by the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions. I remember I did recommend it to my wife, so I must have thought something of it.

Aside from having read Fuller's book and listened to some of the hypnosis sessions online, I really don't know very much about the Hill case. As far as abductions go, I find it fascinating but I really don't know what to make of it. I've read John Mack's books on the subject, as well as a couple by Budd Hopkins and one by David Jacobs. The range of experiences reported by these people is rather wide, and I have trouble reconciling those described by Mack with those described by Jacobs and Hopkins. I've really not been able as of yet to put enough pieces together to decide what to think of the abduction phenomenon. It's definitely super interesting, and I believe that - at least to the abductees - what they experienced was completely real.

What do you think of it all?

I read Fuller's book and have continued to follow studies on the Hill event. For me it was very significant.

Concerning the confusion you mentioned, the UFO/ET genre is an entanglement of human references, emotion and of course individual agendas and politics.

There are institutions attempting to limit public knowledge and exploit the phenomenon for multifarious purposes. A plan that I doubt could ever succeed if as far as I'm concerned. Your discernment of the unique significance encapsulated by individual investigators such as Dr Mack, Dr. Jacobs and Hopkins, underscores a primary function of human perception as well as various social constraints.

During the time when Dr Mack was professor at Harvard he conducted dozens of regressions of people whose experiences were of particular interest. A group of the faculty filed a complaint, demanding his resignation due to the critical nature of the schools' respectability and the culture of ridicule surrounding abduction claims.

Dr. Mack's published research of the regressions emphasized the psycho-spiritual element of abductions. His public statements also reflected that he didn't believe in physical extraterrestrials. One might conclude from the general scenario that his course was planned to reflect the psychoanalytical aspects, the definition or perceptual nature of deeply profound experiences.

David Jacobs PhD. was a history professor (before he retired) and wrote several books. The context of his research bore his personal belief that ETs have been coalescing with humans in their own society for generations and are amassing an effort to gain control through infiltration and cultural emulation.

All of the researchers (with credentials or not) have created prominent spheres of influence based on their interpretations. Lack of unified efforts to openly share information have allowed preferences for specified data to satisfy biases.

For myself, I feel that our reality on this planet is also represented throughout the universe. I would refer to it as a cosmic hierarchy, in which every species exists within a stratum of evolution, from the most primitive to the most developed.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
I remember reading this story when I was a kid, my only question is: why would aliens land for water and cook chow in this guys yard?

Good question, but then we don't know who they are or how they perceive us. They may look upon us as dumb animals.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by g2v12

 

I assume you're talking about The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller? I have read that one, but it was a few years ago. It doesn't stand out in my mind as one of my "favorites", but I was intrigued by the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions. I remember I did recommend it to my wife, so I must have thought something of it.

Aside from having read Fuller's book and listened to some of the hypnosis sessions online, I really don't know very much about the Hill case. As far as abductions go, I find it fascinating but I really don't know what to make of it. I've read John Mack's books on the subject, as well as a couple by Budd Hopkins and one by David Jacobs. The range of experiences reported by these people is rather wide, and I have trouble reconciling those described by Mack with those described by Jacobs and Hopkins. I've really not been able as of yet to put enough pieces together to decide what to think of the abduction phenomenon. It's definitely super interesting, and I believe that - at least to the abductees - what they experienced was completely real.

What do you think of it all?

So tell me Orko, what's really your favorite topic?

Originally posted by g2v12
So tell me Orko, what's really your favorite topic?

That's quite a question. There are a few aspects of this subject that I find particularly interesting, one of which is the disparity between official statements on the matter and information gleaned from formerly classified documents. A subcategory of this would be the comically dishonest stance of the United States Air Force toward UFOs over several decades. ATS member karl12 has done a lot in this area, including this excellent thread on the "force fit" debunkery employed by the Air Force during Project Blue Book.

Here's a video I put together on that topic:



The fact that the Air Force still rolls out its old "fact sheet" on UFOs whenever it is queried on the matter just kills me.

It's been pretty well established that the conclusions of Dr. Edward Condon were reached long before the University of Colorado study was complete and, in any case, are contradicted several times in the body of his own report. That there is a definite national security aspect to UFOs is clear not only from the content of a number of reliable reports, but also from the content of official documents and the statements of former military and intelligence folk. I particularly enjoy this one:

Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense. —Former CIA Director, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, public statement, 1960.

Yet the Air Force still cites the Condon Report and a lack of national security concern as its justification for not investigating UFO sightings. Sounds totally reasonable to anyone who hasn't looked into the topic too deeply, but it's obvious to the rest of us what's going on there.

Well said, and this sort of circumstance makes the UFO matter all the more intriguing. The simple lack of information creates an overload of speculation.

As I mentioned, there are institutions always attempting to limit (or suppress) public knowledge and freedoms and I would think more so in terms of the power and influence these internal groups might garner by quietly harnessing the advantages of exotic technology.

It would actually pose a global threat if such groups were allowed to develop exotic technologies without public knowledge and oversight. Especially in lieu of the fact that the congress and presidency are improperly informed.

As you may know the black project budget is out of control, simply because our representatives have little information about them to determine their veracity in protecting the nation. This being the case, what about exotic technology from UFO crash sites - or worse, from non-human sources whose pretexts are not understood?

Being somewhat read in particular government initiatives, I cannot stress the arrogant and pretentious nature of colluding government and corporate organizations, and the diminutive greed underlying much of what is being discussed here.

What's more, is that this is a social barrier between our society and any benevolent people (extraterrestrials) who may be interested in our overall welfare.

I think in my personal analysis of the general scenario, the overwhelming majority of people are plunking along in their private little worlds without a thought for the potential advantages offered by advanced societies in terms of world peace and prosperity. People are so concerned with themselves, that they lack foresight and the broader concerns that effect the entire planet.

Bottom line, is that something has to happen as a wake up call in our society or the extraterrestrials will have to make themselves so massively apparent that private agendas can no longer conceal the fact that they exist.

Another question would be - would an advanced civilization allow itself to circumvent the secrecy of governments in order to make contact with humans? Obviously they would, because that is what has been happening throughout history. At least on a limited basis.

Case in point is Mathew, a friend of mine from Finland who claims to have been in telepathic contact with a people who he refers to as the Alfeta Doram (people of the planet Doram or Doramites). I actually found him posting on a Paranormal/UFO type forum, and sadly, he was ill received. I understand that he attends UFO meetings in Helsinki. His story was immediately unusual from the reference point of being fairly well read on the topic. He seemed to be disseminating unique information that made sense on several levels.

He doesn't post now, but I have been in contact with him for a little over two years and have collected a ream of information.

My point about his story is that he doesn't spew nonsensical babble or fantastic concepts that might require a leap of faith. What he's saying about his friends is on one hand more mundane then most contact stories, nevertheless unique and plausible.

My apologies, I will have to continue this conversation later, as something has come up and I'll have to sign off. Been great chatting.

Originally posted by g2v12

His story was immediately unusual from the reference point of being fairly well read on the topic. He seemed to be disseminating unique information that made sense on several levels.

He doesn't post now, but I have been in contact with him for a little over two years and have collected a ream of information.

My point about his story is that he doesn't spew nonsensical babble or fantastic concepts that might require a leap of faith. What he's saying about his friends is on one hand more mundane then most contact stories, nevertheless unique and plausible.

edit on 28-6-2012 by g2v12 because: (no reason given)

I would be very interested in any information you would feel comfortable sharing about your friend's experience. Hope to talk to you again.

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by g2v12

His story was immediately unusual from the reference point of being fairly well read on the topic. He seemed to be disseminating unique information that made sense on several levels.

He doesn't post now, but I have been in contact with him for a little over two years and have collected a ream of information.

My point about his story is that he doesn't spew nonsensical babble or fantastic concepts that might require a leap of faith. What he's saying about his friends is on one hand more mundane then most contact stories, nevertheless unique and plausible.

edit on 28-6-2012 by g2v12 because: (no reason given)

I would be very interested in any information you would feel comfortable sharing about your friend's experience. Hope to talk to you again.

Actually, I was laid off yesterday and already filed for unemployment. This morning will be running errands and doing family things. I will post more about Mathew later this afternoon, likely after 4pm or so.