Shouldn't full enlightenment include the ability to perform miracles?

I'm posting this as an opinion and as an open discussion. In regards to many of the recent debates of what is/isn't Enlightenment, I have recently been thinking long and hard and it came to light that many Beings who people historically claimed where Enlightened, Jesus and Buddha for example, were able to perform miracles.

I'm talking healings, walking on water, levitation, power over physical death, and much much more based on historical claims of many other individuals.

Well, my opinion is that if you are Enlightened, you can show mastery over the laws of Nature and perform miracle like feats. I think thats the Ultimate objective proof.

If you dont believe miracles are possible, that your problem. I believe the things Jesus did and Buddha did where actual events and have myself experienced directly and factually many of their teachings into the nature of the mind and the inner worlds, so to me they were genuine.

So what's your take on miracles as proof?

reply to post by dominicus

I think you are confusing enlightenment and Godhood or God status with each other slightly. Enlightenment is a mental state rather than mastery over the physical world. That certain historical/religious figures exhibited their power over the physical might be due to other "reasons". Just my 2 cents.

As for proving miracles, that could be tough and I have no idea how you would go about doing something like that.

Depends what you mean by "miracles". If you mean like "IN THE NAME OF (insert creator here) YOU ARE HEALED!!!!" and lightning shoots from the sky, then probably not IMO. There are plenty of 'miracles' going on every day, such as a smoker not getting cancer or a person who doesn't crash while texting and driving. Just cause you are 'enlightened' doent mean you can do anything you want. Its like looking at a supercomputer. You can see what it does, but you sure cant program it yourself.

It says in the book of acts that Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with Him. The real miracle is when you look around and there isn't anyone left who are sick. I believe God is doing His work and has never stopped, but God requires us to do good. The work was finished 2012 years ago, it's our duty to do good. God takes care of the rest. If you know someone who needs help, then help regardless of personal gain and God will show up in ways unimaginable.

reply to post by dominicus


Consider this - if you are enlightened, there is no need or desire to "prove" anything.

Just a thought.

If you believe in miracles, you are asserting god is inconsistant and fallible enough to allow an animal (man) to perform things that go against the physical laws and natural order he created.

reply to post by dominicus


with the way people think about miracles,
and the way people believe they are not inter-connected with each other,

the miracle to me would be when we connect together for the good of the world,
it would create a spontaneous miracle

xploder

Gnosis is the closest thing an enlightened man will get to taking part in "miracles"

reply to post by Open2Truth

Consider this - if you are enlightened, there is no need or desire to "prove" anything. Just a thought.

I believe Jesus was selfless and in that he was helping and giving and healing to others. In those actions, miracles occurred which themselves was proof to others that he was directly connected to the divine.

Buddha also has stories of miracles that are from selflessness

reply to post by dominicus


Yes miracles are part of it. But miracles are performed against a transcendent backdrop of conflicing minds with conflicting beliefs, each with a degree of psychic ability. I refer you to the sheep-goat effect.

In a wise culture with a fully-functional mythology, the collective psi is focused like light through a magnifying glass. So you can expect grand manifestations of psi, channeled through the mystics.

It takes a villiage.

In a culture as divided and insane and ego-posessed and foolish as ours, all I would expect from an enlightened person is the occasional psychic intuition, psychic dream, synchronicity, etc. Piddly stuff.

reply to post by dominicus


I agree. Their intent was to help and serve, not to "prove" anything.

reply to post by dominicus

You sound like you want to be God. Isn't that a little presumptuous?

He's doing just fine without any help.

Originally posted by aaaiii
reply to post by dominicus

 

You sound like you want to be God. Isn't that a little presumptuous?

He's doing just fine without any help.

Hey, God became human for us. The least we can do in return is become God for him.

reply to post by dominicus


I agree.

So many people think they are "enlightened" but they are not Buddha. They are not Jesus. If they were truly enlightened, then everything would make sense to them, the mysteries would be solved, the laws of nature would no longer be applicable, and there would be no need for happiness or sadness, there would only be contentment.

I think only about 2 people have ever truly been enlightened to that magnitude.

Originally posted by aaaiii
reply to post by dominicus

 

You sound like you want to be God. Isn't that a little presumptuous?

He's doing just fine without any help.

That is exactly right. That is our purpose here on earth. That is precisely why we were born. We should use this experience to become god-like. That is what god wants for us, and every single one of us has that potential, and every single one of us chose this opportunity to explore this existence. There is no good nor evil here, only growing experiences and opportunities.

I'm not joking, and I'm not trying to sound all foofooey or new agey, the only reason I even put that in words is because God gave me that answer during a prayer several years ago. I didn't believe it either, and I argued about it, and I didn't believe my little infant son had asked for all the hell he was going through at the time, but God reassured me that it was the existence that little guy chose. Here I am almost 5 years later, and that little boy is a miracle child, and he is teaching us something new every day. God was right, so I share the words with you, no matter how silly they sound.

reply to post by dominicus


Miracles as in a kind of phsycial 'magic', I highlly doubt. Miracles such as ending the struggle within and being able to communicate how to other beings, perhaps

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dominicus

 

I agree.

So many people think they are "enlightened" but they are not Buddha. They are not Jesus. If they were truly enlightened, then everything would make sense to them, the mysteries would be solved, the laws of nature would no longer be applicable, and there would be no need for happiness or sadness, there would only be contentment.

I think only about 2 people have ever truly been enlightened to that magnitude.

I don't know what would make you think that, but it isn't years of studying comparative mysticism, comparative religion, comparative mythology, esoterica, parapsychology, analytical psychology. And it isn't experience with miracles.

I am enlightened. Everything makes sense to me. But that doesn't mean I know what everyone had for dinner last night. It means I have a higher order of knowledge.

The 'law of nature' is that we are all one. Reality is consensual, and as I said miracles take a villiage. But in this insane age of mystical ignorance and materialism and division and ego, there IS no villiage.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dominicus

 

I agree.

So many people think they are "enlightened" but they are not Buddha. They are not Jesus. If they were truly enlightened, then everything would make sense to them, the mysteries would be solved, the laws of nature would no longer be applicable, and there would be no need for happiness or sadness, there would only be contentment.

I think only about 2 people have ever truly been enlightened to that magnitude.

So you're saying an "enlightened" persons body would have to be able to defy the laws of nature for "enlightenment" to be authentic? Hmmm...

And if I am not mistaken, I believe both Buddha and Jesus 'solved' the 'mysteries' of life and laid out paths of contentment where happiness and sadness are no longer needed. In fact, not sure about Jesus, but I know this was entirely what the Buddha spent over 50 years doing. So you're saying that if someone follows the Buddha's path to a T, he will not find what the Buddha found? Again, hmmm... a lot of monks are wasting their time then huh?

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


A lot of monks are wasting their time, friend

It's tempting to believe such a person would use their powers for the benefit of the greater good, like there is some responsibility or debt to humanity, that someday someone will stand up and prove it and liberate our sorry behinds.

But I believe most would just use such miracles for their own benefit. Maybe it has already happened and whoever won runs the place in such a way the unenlightend cannot understand nor can anyone reach enlightenment since such a person would be a threat to whoever is in charge. So I guess anyone attaining it would use their power of teleportation to be some place instead of confronting who/whatever is in power.