Benevolent Intelligent ET Lifeforms Are A Pipedream

I have several opinions and ideas about this subject I'd like to share.

There can be no benevolent intelligent ET, in my opinion. BIE is merely a projection by humans of their ideals, just like godmen and other fantasy characters we create in our imaginations. If this has already been covered, pardon me and bear with me, I don't follow modern UFO lore.

Homo sapiens is a predator, the only known creature that can leave their planet. This may possibly be an evolutionary progression to infest and dominate other planets. We are an apex predator. Does anyone doubt we would be exhibiting the same behavior on other planets?

Intelligent lifeforms that possess technology that enables them to leave their homeworld will almost certainly be predatory in nature. How else would they rise to the top of their foodchain?

We are not benevolent, nor ever have been as far as we can tell from history. We have and still do enslave (human slavery is at an all-time high currently) each other and other creatures, and treat all life and the planet, including ourselves, aggressively, violently, and with total disregard beyond anything that doesn't affect our livelyhood. Just like ants. They come running when something screws up too.

In my opinion, most of our collective behavior is due to genetics, such as our temperament as a species for example, and the fact that we are dominated by instinctual behavior we barely recognize in ourselves.

Why should we assume any intelligent, predatory, star-faring ET would be any less natural as we are?

Our own instinctal behavior make a benevolent, utopian society impossible, in my opinion, for us or them.

Intelligent, predatory ET will likely also have territories it defends, leaders, wars, social value/power struggles...etc. It's the very nature of the beast. But the word 'beast' frightens and puts off humanity in so many ways. And it should, because... well, this may be a broad statement, but shouldn't a universe teeming with life also have the similiar balance a planet has between prey and predators ratios?

Sending out signals and screaming we are here is very naive, dangerous, and in my opinion downright ignorant. How intelligent does a species have to be once you realize how big that gulf is and the possibilities for life, and especially after taking a long, objective look at us as a space-faring species, how insane the idea is of sending out these declarations out into space. It reminds one of a swimmer ignoring a bleeding cut while paddling in shark-infested oceans. Dumb, in my opinion. There may be predatory intelligences that are evolutionary designed to catch just these sort of signals like a spider in a spider web!

We are also sadly always assuming that another ET lifeform may evolve an intelligence just like ours, which is ludicrous. Monkeys and dolphins are very intelligent creatures, in some ways much more intelligent than human beings, but their brains work in different ways than human beings. But they still have those same natural instincts that we do, don't they?

Baboons can distinguish between written words and gibberish. Monkeys seem to be able to do multiplication. Apes can delay instant gratification longer than a human child can. They plan ahead. They make war and peace. They show empathy. They share.

For a few years, scientists have watched chimpanzees in zoos collect and store rocks as weapons for later use. In May, a study found they even add deception to the mix. They created haystacks to conceal their stash of stones from opponents, just like nations do with bombs.

Hare points to studies where competing chimpanzees enter an arena where one bit of food is hidden from view for only one chimp. The chimp that can see the hidden food, quickly learns that his foe can't see it and uses that to his advantage, displaying the ability to perceive another ape's situation. That's a trait humans develop as toddlers, but something we thought other animals never got, Hare said.

It was once thought the control of emotions and the ability to empathize and socialize separated us from our primate cousins. But chimps console, and fight, each other. They also try to soothe an upset companion, grooming and putting their arms around him. "I see plenty of empathy in my chimpanzees," de Waal said. But studies have shown they also go to war against neighboring colonies, killing the males and taking the females. That's something that also is very human and led people to believe that war-making must go back in our lineage 6 million years, de Waal said. When scientists look at our other closest relative, the bonobo, they see a difference. Bonobos don't kill. Hare says his experiments show bonobos give food to newcomer bonobos, even when they could choose to keep all the food themselves.

xfinity.comcast.net...

We are just now realizing how truly remarkable, intelligent, and alike other primates and mammals are to us. Many ethical questions are going to be asked. As the apex predator, we show little regard for our impact on the planet. How would a predatory, intelligent being see us and our planet?

With genetics it is not science fiction to presume we will be able to engineer a more docile human being someday in the future, but that would essentially mean neutering ourselves to being prey. This is a can of worms I won't open here as I could write a whole thread about it, but feel free to bring it up!

If there were a truly advanced benevolent ET society, they would likely remain hidden and be very hard, if not impossible, to find (this is the best defense, after all), and would also be RARE, compared to a more aggressive, star-faring ET which would have a broader territory just by nature. I think it is very likely that if intelligent benevolent ET did exist it will be dominated in many cases by intelligent predatory ET. If intelligence ET in space exists, there will be predators at the top of the foodchain in space, and benevolent societies would, by nature, not be dominate.

But again, I doubt if there are any benevolent societies at all for that matter. An 'advanced' (at least as far as we are concerned) species would surely see thru the arbitrary moralism that humankind embraces and would surely recognize that these are in fact (imo, wink) our wide and varied interpretations of our natural instincts and temperament. I don't believe benevolent societies are possible for any intelligent creature because it is unnatural and is not in concordance with our very basic instincts.

As you can see, this thread was also about us, because we are at the beginning stages of being intelligent ET creatures. But in my opinion, the ones out there in space are likely to be predatory intelligences that would see us and our planet as resources. It's the law of the jungle.

reply to post by Balkan

There can be no benevolent intelligent ET, in my opinion.

To think we are alone is completely absurd to me.
They are already finding Earth-like planets. Heck, even moons within our solar system with water.

It is RIDICULOUS to think our spec of existence in the oceans of time that we'd be the only beings with an iPhone.

We are still stuck in 3D reality because of narrow-minded thought processes just like this post.

*CRAZY*

reply to post by InternetGremlin
Where in all that do you think I claimed we were alone? I find it highly unlikely we are alone.

reply to post by Balkan


Your very first line.
I'd lay odds the drake equation is far to low, that there are millions of self aware beings here in our own galaxy.

What if the "law of the jungle" is only on earth?
What if the food chain is something that has been created (or inflicted)....and is not actually natural?
Many animal mothers will protect their young from predators, even if it costs them their own lives. Some animals do grieve and suffer if their babies are murdered (for food).
Why is it acceptable to us that something must die in order for us to survive?
I really don't believe that we can possibly determine how an alien race thinks.....and if they are indeed advanced, is it not likely that their thinking and behaviour is much different from our own?
To assume that everything must be a predator is using human reasoning.
We do not understand enough about ourselves (how we got here....why we are here....etc.) to determine the hows and whys of life on other planets.
Much to ponder......what do others think?
jacygirl

Originally posted by jacygirl
Much to ponder......what do others think?
jacygirl

I wonder if Aliens Pee and Poo?
Do they like Hamburgers?
Do they know Mork or Alf?
Are there genders and genitalia?
Do they have TV and movies?
Can they lick their nose with their tongue?
What do they do when their UFO breaks down?
Do they have Air Conditioning?

hehehe
Sorry, just being silly.

Originally posted by jacygirl
What if the "law of the jungle" is only on earth?

Will human beings treat space any differently than earth? I doubt that.

What if the food chain is something that has been created (or inflicted)....and is not actually natural?

It's an interesting thought. In my own mind, if we're talking intelligent creation, I would wonder what type of being would create a world were everything eats everything else and the struggle for life is a brutal progression of survival.

Many animal mothers will protect their young from predators, even if it costs them their own lives. Some animals do grieve and suffer if their babies are murdered (for food).
Why is it acceptable to us that something must die in order for us to survive?

Because the majority of people prefer to eat living things.

I really don't believe that we can possibly determine how an alien race thinks.....and if they are indeed advanced, is it not likely that their thinking and behaviour is much different from our own?

Agreed.

To assume that everything must be a predator is using human reasoning.

But humans are natural. We are not apart from nature. Isn't our ego interesting and how we always describe ourselves in a way seperate from nature? Our sense of entitlement never ceases to amuse me. Our world is not seperate from the universe. Everything is natural. Intelligent ET is not natural?

You're projecting human behavior to a species of intelligence that we know nothing about. Maybe ET started out with similar roots, but eventually evolved to the point where they no longer need to make war for such mundane causes like religion, oil, or food. I would imagine a space-faring intelligence knows so much more than we can comprehend. We've travelled to the moon, we can clone things, we're learning behavioral traits of monkeys. They've probably created wormholes and new species of life.

I think you've got it backwards. The more intelligent and benevolent ET is, the more dominant I think they are. The ones that still feel it's okay to enslave and eat other creatures, have yet to evolve......mankind has yet to evolve.

reply to post by InternetGremlin


Lol....silly is fine!
I wonder if they have a sense of humour?

I would also take into consideration our human curiosity, also possessed to some extent in a lot of other mammals and animals on earth as mentioned.

This curiosity leads me to think that there probably are benevolent E.Ts who also have the capability for warfare but would rather learn from a species and just thwart our little pea shooter attacks.

There is probably a vast amount of diverse life in our universe and you definitely make a valid point although I think 'no benevolent E.Ts' is stretching it. Remember we are barely evolved in the grand scheme of things.

I think the worst thing we can do when theorizing about other life in the universe is to say that there "cannot be these types of ET's".

Considering that we do not have the ability to go out and find other lifeforms, I think it is best to keep our philosophical minds open to every possibility there is. What if a group of benevolent ET's show up at our dorrstep tomorrow? Well, your theory would be easily debunked.

We need conclusive evidence to say that something is one particular way. Since we have no evidence, we cannot make a claim either way and if there is a possibility of such people to exist.......we cannot claim 100% surety to the contrary.

Thats my opinion!

Either is possible. If we are talking biological civilisation then I tend to agree with you that they are likely evolved from predators.

A species old enough to be intergalactic may well have transcended biology and either become or spawned full machine AI.

An 'race', if the term applies, of self replicating AI may not be either predatory or benevolent.

Originally posted by jacygirl
reply to post by InternetGremlin

 

Lol....silly is fine!
I wonder if they have a sense of humour?

Good question!
If they snatch me up in their space ship I can simply tell a few jokes and become the Ship Jester. I wonder if the "Pull my Finger and I Fart" joke would still work with them? LOL

Reading other posts in here, I have to agree that, they've probably evolved past personal self worth and work in more of a community beneficial way. As a collective. Maybe this is why they find us so interesting. They want these emotions back and are slicing our DNA into their creating a hydrid.

The Miniseries TAKEN by Spielberg was reallllly good IMO. It was based on that premiss.

Originally posted by MisterFister103
You're projecting human behavior to a species of intelligence that we know nothing about.

No. I am projecting instinctual animal behavior into intelligent ET. They are natural creatures of their planet, just as we are.

Maybe ET started out with similar roots, but eventually evolved to the point where they no longer need to make war for such mundane causes like religion, oil, or food.

It sounds good, doesn't it? I just don't believe it's possible. Social animals always have hierarchys. I guess you believe we'll someday live in a world where everyone is treated equally and there are no forms of value to distinguish between us. heh

I would imagine a space-faring intelligence knows so much more than we can comprehend. We've travelled to the moon, we can clone things, we're learning behavioral traits of monkeys. They've probably created wormholes and new species of life.

And I imagine they've ran across other intelligent lifeforms. I wonder how it went?

I think you've got it backwards. The more intelligent and benevolent ET is, the more dominant I think they are. The ones that still feel it's okay to enslave and eat other creatures, have yet to evolve......mankind has yet to evolve.

Certain monkeys and dolphins can be considered intelligent and benevolent ET creatures from an aliens point of view. You see how well they are doing here with an intelligent predatory creature.

Originally posted by InternetGremlin
reply to post by Balkan

 

Your very first line.
I'd lay odds the drake equation is far to low, that there are millions of self aware beings here in our own galaxy.

Again, I never claimed we were alone. I claimed that the idea of benevolent, intelligent ET is very unlikely and I stated my case. Reading comprehension. Look into it.

I'd point out at this point that this idea never seems to be popular among UFO buffs. Fancy ideas of nu-age aliens dance in their heads. I had a good idea the thread would be unpopular. The kook stuff gets the most interest around here.

reply to post by InternetGremlin


Maybe this is why they find us so interesting. They want these emotions back and are slicing our DNA into their creating a hydrid. (your quote)
Really? Do you think they would want them back? It seems to me that emotions (and emotional responses) are responsible for a lot of pain for human beings.
Considering the present state of our world, I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to devise a way to REMOVE emotions from us (would that be DNA?). This would make us easier to control.....kind of like a global lobotomy....
I guess then we would either have peace......or we just wouldn't care?
jacygirl

Originally posted by TechUnique
This curiosity leads me to think that there probably are benevolent E.Ts who also have the capability for warfare but would rather learn from a species and just thwart our little pea shooter attacks.

There is probably a vast amount of diverse life in our universe and you definitely make a valid point although I think 'no benevolent E.Ts' is stretching it. Remember we are barely evolved in the grand scheme of things.

Again, you assume the benevolent star-faring intelligent ET evolves into the king of the jungle in space, and thereforce must be the top dog period.

Human's worst nightmare - imagine ET with our own characteristics and (none existing) morals and believes...

Didn't Wells use the same idea for his War of the Worlds book?

Wells suggests this idea in the following passage from the novel: And before we judge them [the Martians] too harshly, we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished Bison and the Dodo, but upon its own inferior races. The Tasmanians, in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of existence in a war of extermination waged by European immigrants, in the space of fifty years. Are we such apostles of mercy as to complain if the Martians warred in the same spirit? —Chapter I, "The Eve of the War"

Source...

Originally posted by SuperFrog
Human's worst nightmare - imagine ET with our own characteristics and (none existing) morals and believes...

Didn't Wells use the same idea for his War of the Worlds book?

Wells suggests this idea in the following passage from the novel: And before we judge them [the Martians] too harshly, we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished Bison and the Dodo, but upon its own inferior races. The Tasmanians, in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of existence in a war of extermination waged by European immigrants, in the space of fifty years. Are we such apostles of mercy as to complain if the Martians warred in the same spirit? —Chapter I, "The Eve of the War"

Source...

I'm ashamed to admit I have not gotten around to reading my copy of his History of the World. Some friends keep telling me I'd love it.