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Why should any woman convert to Islam? A serious question.

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posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 04:13 PM
“...So their Lord accepted their prayers, (saying): I will not suffer to be lost the work of any of you whether male or female. You proceed one from another ...” (Quran 3: 195).

"Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds" [Noble Quran 74:38]

"Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life." [Noble Quran 16:97]

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

"O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you." [Noble Quran 4:1]

Woman according to Quran is not blamed for Adam's first mistake. Both were jointly wrong in their disobedience to God, both repented, and both were forgiven.

"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]

"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." [Noble Quran 33:35]

According to the Quran women are:
To be free from bondage of slavery. Ch.4:19
To be treated kindly. Ch.4:19
To be treated with respect. Ch.9:71
To be kept in good-fellowship, or "let them go in kindness". Ch. 2:229
To be set free in kindness (in cases of divorce) and not to be retained for injury. Ch.2:231
To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if she fears ii-usage or desertion from her husband. Ch.4:128
Men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women. [Noble Quran 4:1, 7:189, 42:11]


“Do treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers.”

“God is gentle, and He loves the adoption of a gentle attitude in all matters.” (related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

“When a man gives his daughter in marriage and she dislikes it, the marriage shall be annulled.” (Once a virgin girl came to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) and said that her father had married her to a man against her wishes. The Prophet gave her the right to repudiate the marriage.)

"Paradise lies at the feet of your mothers."

Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h.) stood and asked his companions to stand up when a funeral procession passed by. When the companions said it was the funeral of a Jew, the prophet said: “Is he not a human being?”

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?"  The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father."

"And from amongst His Signs is this: That He created from you wives from amongst yourselves, so that you may find serenity and tranquillity in them. And He has put between you love and compassion. Indeed, in this are signs for those who reflect." [Surah Ar-Rum 30:21]

"It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them."

During the reign of Omar (2nd successor to the Prophet p.b.u.h.), women participated in law making. Omar made a proposal of a certain regulation concerning marriage. A woman in the mosque stood up and said: “Omar, you can’t do that.” Omar did not tell her, “Shut up, you are a woman, you have nothing to do with politics, etc.” He asked, “Why?” She made her argument on the basis of Quran. In front of everybody, Omar stood up and said, “The woman is right and Omar is wrong,” and he withdrew his proposal.

In the most authentic collection of Hadith, Hadith Bukhari, a section is devoted to the participation of women, not only in public affairs, but in the battlefield, too, and not only as logistical support. Women carried arms, and when there was great danger to the Muslims, they volunteered to participate even in the battlefield.

What the bible and the torah say about women:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)

"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)

Genesis 19:8 Tells of a man named Lot who offers his daughters to a crowd of would-be rapists.  Later, Lot impregnates his own daughters after God kills his wife for simply looking back at the remains of her city.

Exodus 21:7 God not only sanctions selling ones daughter into slavery, but he also gives out laws on how it should be done.

Leviticus 18:19 Goes onto say that even LOOKING at a menstruating woman is wrong.

Leviticus 19:20 Says that if a man has sex with a slave or betrothed woman he must then “scourge” her.  Scourging is a term for a severe flogging or whipping.  

Deuteronomy 20:13-15  Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God “delivers into your hands,” but keep the women for raping.

Deuteronomy 21:11-14  If you see a pretty woman among the captives then just take her home and “go in unto her.”

Deuteronomy 22:13-22 Women, be sure to keep the tokens of your virginity.  Otherwise the men of your city may stone you to death.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 is one of the most cruel and sexist passages of the Torah. It says that women who are raped and fail to “cry out loud” in a populated area are most likely enjoying the attack should be killed.

Women must cut their hair off if they don't cover it: "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off." (1 Cor. 11:6)

Deuteronomy 25:5-10: states that if a woman is widowed, she would be required to marry her former brother-in-law. This was called a "levirate" marriage. Their first-born son will later be considered to be the son of the deceased husband. The man could refuse to marry her. Women were not given a choice in the matter. " If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her."

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 requires that a virgin woman who has been raped must marry her attacker, no matter what her feelings are towards the rapist. "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife...."

"If however the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death..." Deuteronomy 22:13-21.
"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head;" 1 Corinthians 11:9, 10.

Leviticus 12:1-5 Quotes God as stating that a woman who has given birth to a boy is ritually unclean for 7 days. If the baby is a girl, the mother is unclean for 14 days. "If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks..." It would appear that the act of having a baby is a highly polluting act. To give birth to a girl is twice as polluting as is giving birth to a boy.

edit on 6-7-2012 by couldbeanyone because: formatting

posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 04:17 PM
also, i suppose i should add that i am a white american muslim convert. and a woman.

posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:15 PM

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by grandmakdw

obviously a western political science website you went to as well... Since Iran is fully 100% Sharia law... it is a part of Sharia that Christians and Jews be allowed to follow their own set of laws in civil matters... this is 100% Sharia, not partial sharia country. Not one law that is not debated according to Quran and ahadith in that country. Sharia even has a place for Jews and Christians to have their own representitives in parliament....and Iran follows that too.

That is one thing Iran has going for it, it actually does try and follow Sharia law to the best of their ability.So even though it is not perfect, it is an excellent model for how to follow sharia instead of secular laws.
edit on 27-6-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

What provisions are there for atheists or, say, Hindus in Sharia Law, what name are atheists give in Islam and how are they treated in muslim countries compared to how you are treated in your non-muslim country?
edit on 6-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:20 PM

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by smyleegrl

The virgins are the hourin which have been discussed above. Yes women get them too, they are "purified spouses (or mates)" everyone in jannah gets one (or more than one)... they are either genderless or possibly simply either male or female

but there is no specified amount one may have...or even necessarily what they might do or why we have them... ahadith which speaks on them specifically are usually very weak and unreliable...

They are supposed to be 60 cubits in height though!
edit on 27-6-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Has it never occured to you that paradise will be like a semi-detached in Croyden under the weight of a coach load of aged swingers? How spiritual is that? Is that a setting you find appealing?
edit on 6-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:16 PM
Quran Sura 2:223 Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like.

Quran Sura 2:228 Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status.

Quran Sura 2:282 And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her.

Quran Sura 4:11 The share of the male shall be twice that of a female.

Quran Sura 4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war].

Quran Sura 4:34 If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

Hadith 142 [Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense.[10]

The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind."[11]

Hadith Sahih Muslim, book 4, hadith 1032:

Abu Dharr reported: The Messenger of 'Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, his prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black Dog.

Hadith Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, livre 062, hadith 033 The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

Koran They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. Surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves. (2:222)

The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, Number 2658)

You can have sexual intercourse with two slave girls at a time without ghusl (bath) but can’t do like this with free women…(Malik’s Muwatta 2.23.90)

Malik’s Muwatta:Book 28, Number 28.15.38:Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibrahim ibn Abi Abla from Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan that he gave a slave-girl to a friend of his, and later asked him about her. He said, "I intended to give her to my son to do such-and-such with her." Abd al-Malik said, "Marwan was more scrupulous than you. He gave a slave-girl to his son, and then he said, 'Do not go near her, for I have seen her leg uncovered.' "

Malik’s Muwatta:Book 29, Number 29.17.51:Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "If a man gives his slave permission to marry, the divorce is in the hand of the slave, and nobody else has any power over his divorce. Nothing is held against a man who takes the slave-girl of his male slave or the slave-girl of his female-slave." Slave-girls are like fields if you wish then water it by ejaculating inside them or leave it thirsty i.e. coitus interruption with slave-girls is optional…(Malik’s Muwatta 29.32.99)

“Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, send down the Qur'anic verse: "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand possess." (4:24)

posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:22 PM
Umar [one of the Caliphs] was once talking when his wife interjected, so he said to her: 'You are a toy; if you are needed we will call you.' (Al-Musanaf Vol. 1 Part 2, p. 263)

Allah’s Apostle (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "In Paradise there is a pavilion made of a single hollow pearl sixty miles wide, in each corner of which there are wives who will not see those in the other corners; and the believers will visit and enjoy them.” (Ibid, Number 4879)

Not forgetting of course the fact the holiest man of Islam started to have sex with wife when she was just nine.

I suggest that the nice verses in Islam originated from the early time of Islam, the Meccan period and the not so nice verses come from the Medina period when Mohammad's method of recruiting converts became more about 'smash and grab' rather than 'smile and look friendly'. He also recruited a lot of slaves during the early period due to offering better rights under Islam but were the rules on raping slaves from the early period or the later period? Maybe a muslim can tell me.

posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 01:01 PM

Originally posted by grandmakdw
Please don’t say things are different in the US, I want to know from the perspective where the “ ideal on earth” for a Muslim already exists, a Muslim government where total sharia law is in effect.

The sharia law in effect in Islamic states today is not the "ideal on earth" for Muslims. Every single form of government on earth today is corrupt, be it religious, secular or state government. This is quite obvious. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan- the most prominent of all "Islamic states" all follow very minor schools of thought within Islam, which is completely antithetical to the ideal of Islam. there truly is no sunni, shia, salafi, or sufi - there is only muslim, and the only rule is the Qu'ran. Ideally sharia, IMO is the most common-sense and just form of rule when practiced as God intended (through Qu'ran and sunnah, and not so much fiqh) Sharia, by way of the Qu'ran protects the rights of women and children, forbids loans with interest (probably the biggest problem of the world today are CORRUPT FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS), ensures everyone's right to an education, and also provides food, clothing, and shelter to those in need. If applied the way God intended, IMO, sharia could create a safe, peaceful environment where people can learn and grow and become close with God.


I am a white american female muslim convert. I personally converted because i wanted to get close to God and find peace. For me, islam is a complete way of life that promotes family, charity, involvement in the community and a close personal relationship with God. I feel a peace within my heart that I never quite felt through christianity. When I first considered islam i was terrified that i might be entering into something that would oppress or subjugate me, but the more i studied the Qu'ran, sunnah and hadith, the more i realized that this was not at all the case. islam is the "middle way" the straight path to god. there is to be no extreme in islam, and anyone who is an extremist in islam is not truly muslim the way God intended and is simply interpreting the qu'ran in a way that suits that person, even though the Quran is pretty clear cut for the most part.

What is the benefit for a woman to stay in an Islamic country if she can flee?

as for myself, i would not wish to move to or live in an islamic state, but that is simply because of the corruption of the world today. most of those countries are experiencing extreme strife right now and as i believe that we are literally on the verge of ww3, i would prefer to stay near my family.

The Koran makes it clear that it Allah can reject her and not allow her into heaven even if she was pious and upheld all the commands. That she may have committed some small offense that she was unaware of that would condemn her to hell. Also the KOREAN MAKES IT CLEAR THAT VERY FEW WOMEN ARE ADMITTED TO HEAVEN, EVEN THE PIOUS AND COMMITTED TO ALLAH [ ... ] DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL GO TO HEAVEN BUT STILL PROBABLY GO TO HELL?

according to the hadith you are referring to, the women that are in hell are there because they denied or were ungrateful of the good done to them by others. i happen to agree with this. however, the bit you added that even if they are pious and committed to Allah is false. according to the qu'ran, each person is judged by their deeds, and if a person is sincere in their repentance and sincerely tries to live their lives to please God, then they will earn their rightful place in heaven. God knows best. God is most merciful.

Women are forced to marry men they don't want; this is indisputable.

women being forced to marry men they don't want is strictly forbidden in islam- anyone who does this is not following the true islam.

To keep the women at home the whole religion has to keep them off the streets or be accompanied by another male so they can't attempt escape.

Women to stay home is recommended, of course, but it is for the benefit of the family. You can see this among the jewish, christians, mormons, etc. - are they oppressed too? However, women retain the right to go out of the home to work if they so choose. Also, she is allowed to go out of the home to take care of her and her families needs as well to visit her family or friends without a mahram (male relative). The mahram is required when the woman is traveling long distances, and this is for safety purposes.

The fathers who truly love their daughters are not forcing them to marry.

Amen, sister! Like I said above, it is strictly forbidden for force a woman to marry someone she does not wish to marry. There is no excuse for this or the atrocity of killing an innocent child, which is also strictly forbidden by both the quran and common sense.

shariah in practice today is not true islam.

posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 05:04 PM
Here are some highlights of a debate on Faith Freedom, entitled, 'Does Islam have the keys within itself to liberate women within Muslim social structures?'

QUOTE... In order to consider this question fully, the obstacles to such liberation must be addressed: Qur’anic verses such as 4:34 (which enjoins wife-beating) and those that make a woman’s testimony (2:282) and inheritance (4:11) worth half of a man’s do indeed involve Islamic teachings, not just cultural practices. There are also numerous ahadith that reflect poorly on women, including one in which Muhammad declares that most of hell’s population is female and that women are deficient in intelligence and piety (Bukhari, I:6:304).

Sura 4:34, which has recently been advanced as a valid principle for conduct by Muslim spokesmen in Turkey, Spain, and elsewhere, makes for an atmosphere in which abuse of women is epidemic. The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences, for example, has determined that over nine out of ten Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal.

Let us see what the Quran says about women. It says “men have a degree (of advantage) over them” 2:228 ; that the witness of woman is worth half of that of man 2:282; that women inherit half of their male siblings, 4:11-12; that a man can marry two or three or four women 4:3; that if a women becomes captive in a war, her Muslim master is allowed to rape her 33:50; that if a woman is not totally submissive to her husband she will enter Hell 66:10; that women are “tilth” for their husbands (to cultivate them) 2:223; that men are in charge of women, as if women were imbeciles or minors who could not take care of themselves; that they must be obedient to their husbands or be admonished (verbally abused), banished from the bed (psychologically abused) and beaten (physically abused) 4:34.

In fact, the countries that practice Islam to its fullest are truly barbaric. Just think of the suffering of the women in Afghanistan during the rule of the Taliban. Women were not allowed to go out of their homes or work. Male doctors were not allowed to visit female patients. So, when women became sick, there was no one to take care of them and they died. The more a country becomes Islamic the more hellish it gets.

Women in Islam are not treated equally even in death.

Ms. Roach says that in pre-Islamic Arabia female infants were murdered and Islam abolished that. Muslims truly believe that this was a common practice. If that was the case, where did Arab women came from? They also claim that Muhammad raised the status of women by limiting a man to no more than four wives. How could Arab men have so many wives if they practiced female infanticide?

Ms. Roach claims that the “right” to fight in battle is the most important. She says “What right could be more serious than to be able to fight and die in battle?”

Is this a right? Wouldn’t it have been better if instead of wars Muhammad had brought peace to the world and gave women (and men and children) the right to live in peace?

He took away the right to think, the right to believe in the faith of one’s choice, the right to self determination and instead gave them the right to wage war, to kill, to hate, to “instill terror in the heart of the enemy” 8:12, to destroy this world and to die. Is this a right? This is like saying Muhammad gave Muslims the right to live in hell, the right to be slaves, the right to be abused and tortured.

Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah (Mo's first wife, who was very wealthy) succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success?

Also I would like to ask her how a woman can work outside the home when she can’t be in a room alone with a man and can’t travel alone without a male kin (mahram). Muhammad discouraged women from going out of their home and in fact he said that it is better for them to pray in the privacy of their home (read prisons) than pray in the mosque. In some Islamic countries women are not even allowed to drive a car. How they are supposed to go to work if they can’t even get there unless someone drives them to and from work?

I ask her, how can a 9 year old child consent to a marriage? How can a Muslim woman be free in her choice when she is not even allowed to date the man whom she is planning to marry in order to know him?


edit on 7-7-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 05:19 PM
Could the muslims please tell me why, if they are equal to men in their allah's eyes, are they not allowed to pray alongside them in the mosque? If it's because they want to avoid natural temptations, why is it that men get the best spot and women have to pray out of sight and in another room altogether? Surely, during prayer of all things, Islam would reveal its deepest roots in equality.

I would also like to know if muslim women have considered the possibility that the nice verses that give them so much hope in life were very cleverly designed not to make women's lives better but to appeal to the female masses and bulk up the congregation early on in Islam, much like the verses about slavery helped recruit lots of burly slaves, much like prison inmates are targeted now. It would seem that once Mohammad had garnered enough recruits, money and power, his true intentions became clear, and that explains the dupicity in women's rights and the contradictions in his own feelings towards them which deteriorates with time. That duplicity is repeated every time Islam takes root in a country....starts off nice, weaker members os society are targeted for conversion, power grows, conditions for sucker recruits drops.....

Could it be that Mohammad was an extremely cunning psychopath who was brilliant at measuring people up and saying the things needed to get what he wanted from them? He wanted female recruits.....great demographic weapons and sexual comforters. How did he get them? 'Hey, ladies, join me and I'll make sure you inherit something.' How did he recruit the slaves? 'Join me and I'll pop in a clause to encourage your masters to release you after so many years.' And men...'Join me fellers and not only will you now be able to legally have four wives, sex with your slaves, sex with your war booty and sex with kiddies but you'll also be able to have the gang bang of your life after you die for me and the wife will probably never know as she's not likely to be around to bother you.'

The proof of my hunch is in the fact that earlier, softer, verses are abrogated by later verses. That pretty much wipes out the final saying power of the niceties of Islam and gives the chronologically later verses more weight and, therefore, the last say.

All things aside, do you really want to sign your life over to a system that endorses wife beating, was designed by a man who had sex with a nine year old, that will possibly see you being one of four baby makers and doesn't even offer you a garauntee of praise and thanks for all your submission once you've kicked the bucket? Surely that cannot be your best bet. Or has your past been so brutal that Islam seems an easy, organised and preferential way of life?

Is this really the best the world can muster? Not to mention the treatment of the women outside of this supposedly perfect system, in your words last poster.

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posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 08:53 PM
reply to post by TheFogHorn

It seems you have an agenda, not to look at things objectively and learn truth, but to promote a kind of "hate islam" which is not islam at all. you have not said a single good thing about islam, so that pretty much proves you are completely biased and with a negative agenda. I cannot say that the oppression and subjugation of women within islam does not exist, as it does exist, but this is something we all have to work together toward eliminating. islam is not the perpetrator of the abuse of women, individuals are and they come from all races and religions. eliminating islam will not fix the problem and promoting a hate agenda will do nothing to help the problem either. it seems that you are likely not a religious person at all. i cannot make any assumptions about what kind of person you are, but to me it seems that you are someone seeking constant conflict rather than resolution. i would go through and answer each of your points individually but i feel that you would only come back and argue some more. i have the hardest time believing you are being at all objective and you are not accepting anything good about islam at all. therefore, you are a terrorist in my eyes! spreading hate is a vile activity. i will no longer respond to you as you are nothing more than a troll. we should all be working together to come to understanding so that this world may find peace, but people like you are only perpetuating fear and hate.

edit on 7-7-2012 by couldbeanyone because: added a few choice words

posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:14 PM
reply to post by TheFogHorn

i thought about it and i apologize for using the T word. that is not good behavior. my opinion still stands. salam and may god soften your heart.

posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 01:14 PM
There's nothing wrong about your concern about Women who convert to Moslem, but first let me tell you something,

First is, that something like bible, Qur'an, and others SHOULD NOT be interpreted literally. When the Qur'an says that there are very few women admitted to heaven, it is like when the church in the Galileo's era says that the earth is flat, and maybe also the same case when people debates whether it is bible or Darwin's theory that must be trusted.

Second, that is about the Marriage. It is in Iran. It is their culture, and some of the Law of Islam was written based on the culture of the people. Then, remember that Qur'an should not be interpreted literally.

If you think that a religion is bad, remember that religion is man-made, and it is not perfect. So, do as what you think and feel is right, because you have competence, compassion, and conscience.

Don't think that this is a promotion to Islam, because I'm not a Moslem myself. I just want the world to be a better place to all conscious people to live.

May this post able to open your mind, and to serve the humanity.

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