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Is Death An Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End

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posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by lokdog
 


or maybe more along the lines of "what you believe in, will end up being your heaven" since its rly all in the mind...something i've recently thought of...maybe that's why people's beliefs are so strong? i don't know....1:30 and im getting brain farts galore lol




posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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Yes death is an illusion... It's been used as a tool for fear, control, and prostration to false God's and their representatives called "Priests" (among other names)..

Why is it that people become so hooked on the thought of "death?...

Thats more writing (books in fact) then one could possibly delve into in lifetimes (not to pull a pun)

Physics understands that matter and energy can neither be created, or destroyed, that all things move, all things change,, and nothing can remain the same, in order for it to "continue" to exist..

Never a free ride in existence, to get, one must give, this is a basic physics rule, and no matter the uniqueness of the translations in matter or energy, there is "ALWAYS" a transfer of energy/matter...

Real scientists (not the current ones we have now, which have more in common with a politician and businessman/women then they do a scientists in any degree of form or function) they understand the need, the actual physical or dimensional "NEED" for transferences of energy and or matter..

Yet how to pinpoint the fault in the current cyclic structure of belief systems we use today?

Surely one could say that it was theological?, in retrospect, this is only an answer for a case by case bases of study, but there is also times of War too, that bring up the need to reflect upon the physical continuation we call life, while still ignoring the simple understanding that "we continue to grow older"...

No.. this root cause of exactly" why" we fear death, why we think that death is the final answer, and that there can be no other means to continue forward, is due to not an understanding, but rather the "lack" of any understanding of what one cannot actually "quantify".....

There is one underlying pattern, that always emerges, one spectrum of analysis that is the skeleton for which a hypothetical is formed, to become a theory, then accepted as fact, and even gone as far as to be enforced by governmental means or theological reasonings, and that is "Absoluteness"...

Absoluteness is the constant theme used, the one item that is translated into all categories, and even given to another as a language we call "mathematics" and it's final answer is known as ZERO...

In another more common sobriquet, it is also known as "death"...

However this is presented, it is always alluded to as having "nothing left" to give, do, perform, or process..

We look to physicality as the ultimate cycle of what we really are, when we already on some instinctive level understand, that what we do in the physical, is not what we "truly" are, but are only "vacationing" and biding our time with "experiences"..

Humanity does not know anything, but we experience all, and learn everything, but always in a limited form, and no two ever produce the same results, this could not happen, if we where only able to be of one mind and body, one life, and no other...

Some fear the unknown, and more importantly fear losing what they have come to understand, and even those that believe in a reincarnation process, who are stout in their belief, will fear death's spectral presence, because of not being able to recall what they did in a past life (per their very own belief system)..

Losing ones self, ones identity is one of the greatest fears of death for those that believe they move on to another existence, but again (IMO), you cannot proceed, nor be able to produce a unique work of art, or function, if you were not able to continue without a heartbeats pause in your reality..

Death is nothing to fear, and nothing to be concerned over, it really is just akin to having to allow the processes to finish of their own accord, and simply "move on"...

Where?...

Nobody in this existence has that answer... Just as it should be...

In the end it always comes down to the one word we are all familiar with: "Faith"....and Faith?...

Faith has "Infinities" of translations....



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Several years ago I had the fascinating experience of having my father's 'spirit' for lack of a better term, come into my head right before I got the call from my brother that Dad had just died....

The most fascinating part of this experience was that as his spirit slammed into my right temple, it had mass. It seemed to impact with the amount of force of a small marble, but at the same time when right through my skull.

We survive death alright. I wish I could prove it to other people but it certainly proved it to myself. Helluva goodbye present from Dad.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:07 AM
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Off topic ? How about this; Sin = Time.
Man is born into sin (Time)
The wages of sin (time) is death.
This makes more sense than when you
die and go to Heaven or Hell or, reincarnate no ?
If I come back "here" again, after death ,
I'm going to be very angry !



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by fiftyfifty



or even make you want to have sex like with some birds


Call me childish but this sentence just made me think that it had been written by a scouser like. I had to re-read it a few times to actually understand what it was really trying to say haha.

This sounds really interesting and right up my street. I will definitely be reading more into this after work!


Yeah I thought the same thing as you when I read that line... but figured the author deserved the benefit of the doubt and decided to go with 'English is their second language' as I quite like the premise of what they're trying to say. It resonated with my own quiet musings and ponders on the subject... so, like cool.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 






AllisOne
Pics or it never happened ...


Observation! or it never happened

edit on 27-6-2012 by kennyb72 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by kennyb72
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 




We only think this way because we are idealists and we fear death, so we cling to the metaphysics of others as if they were our own.


My convictions regarding our eternal existence is not someone else's metaphysics, It is my profound belief from having memories from a previous physical life.

If you knew what I know, you nor anybody would fear death. I would just rather not be there when it happens


Oh. I could've sworn everything you said was in a Stephen Hawking show I watched last night. My apologies.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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You think...sometimes I swear I remember things I am not supposed to remember?

Like tonight, we were talking, i was cooking, my husband said something, and I was like - without thinking "I think we should just put them out on the street like we used to" and I realized I was talking about something that happened oh, 2200 years ago. lol STUPID little every day things I remember...that I shouldn't...couldn't...and they just slip out of my mouth like it happened yesterday.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by reddwhite
reply to post by oghamxx
 


For example, light travels in particles and waves. When an observer no matter how far away is going to see the light it always travels in particles, when it won't. Be travelling in the presence of an observer it always travels in waves.



You're saying that with no observer light travels in waves, and when we try to measure the light (to observe), it goes back to particles, right? Right. I know this is what the field of quantum physics wants us to believe, but I'm still not buying it. It's too much like magic.


Too much like magic or too much like a video game?

The sims, anyone?

How does the ancestor simulation theory tie into this?



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Snoopy1978

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by reddwhite
reply to post by oghamxx
 


For example, light travels in particles and waves. When an observer no matter how far away is going to see the light it always travels in particles, when it won't. Be travelling in the presence of an observer it always travels in waves.



You're saying that with no observer light travels in waves, and when we try to measure the light (to observe), it goes back to particles, right? Right. I know this is what the field of quantum physics wants us to believe, but I'm still not buying it. It's too much like magic.


Too much like magic or too much like a video game?

The sims, anyone?

How does the ancestor simulation theory tie into this?


There is a nice saying:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

I might add:

Any sufficiently advanced Idea is also indistinguishable from magic...

Particle is mass, wave is "function" or work that mass does as a cycle (In the simplest statement I could generate)

Because both elements argued use a charged state by their very motion, it then become one of "observation" that determines it deconstruction into a theory, or technological application..

To the particle?.. it could care less of the observer "regardless" of the observation made..

Hope that helps...



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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===========================================
| I'll test out this theory! Sign me up to die immediately! |
===========================================
edit on 27-6-2012 by SeriousIndividual because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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No, no, no. The only thing that causes the structure of the atoms of our brain to have consciousness is the continual wave enumerated through the structure of our brain.

We live at about 40 "frames of consciousness" each second. This means are momentary gaps of unconsciousness in our brains but are overlapped like continuous waves, somewhat how the brainwave function occurs. This operates off of the quantum superposition theory.

To be clear, any structure can have moments of consciousness. A star can have consciousness, or parts of it perhaps, at random times. However, since there is no brain structure the information would not go anywhere.

Your consciousness might mean everything to you but it is not much of anything. In fact it is nothing. You will never regain consciousness after you die. You will never experience anything else. Others will, but it does not matter because you will be dead.

Only the continuation of waves of consciousness matters, and each of ours is not even a sand on the beach of what the scale of the universal consciousness is; especially what it will be. I'm sorry but you all would likely require hundreds of lifetimes of thought to begin to understand what you are a part of. We are but a mere tool and ironically we believe we are the only living thing in the universe. We believe that space is nothing and time can not exist without it. We believe that a rock is not living. In fact, the rock is as much a part of what you might understand as life as any of us. If you could only understand the great lengths of the process that brought matter into this womb. If you could begin to understand that the laws of physics and the substance of matter which the universe is made of is the equal of the DNA in your genetic sequence you may begin to understand what your life is part of.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by oghamxx
This logic applies to virtually everything. Bottom line: What you see could not be present without your consciousness.


If you were lying on an operating table being operated on without anesthetic, the procedure, people and implements would be observably present. If you were deeply under anesthetic, they would still be present, though not being conscious you would not be observably aware of this. Though they would still be there, as the results of the procedure and other people who were consciously there, would confirm. I think this statement is demonstrably false. Possibly ridiculous.

The examples he gives only point out the fact that our interpretation of what is present can be altered. Though we already know this, perception is subjective to begin with.

Not so sure the double slit experiment is affected by consciousness the way people seem to think. Why do the particles always act the same way when measured? Too early IMO to say that, as a consequence, our consciousness itself alters or creates reality. There does appear a connection, yet this easily veers towards new age type pseudo science IMO.


Death doesn’t exist in a timeless, spaceless world.

Yet it certainly does in our world. Possibly a fair enough assumption, though without being able to access such a world, assumption none the less. To be relevant we would need to know that consciousness exists in time less, space less world. It might, it might not.


Wave your hand through the air – if you take everything away, what’s left?

Not sure how inanities like this can be taken seriously. The mind boggles...


A fascinating subject. No doubt as an understanding of the nature of consciousness unfolds it could have many profound implications re our understanding of the universe and existence. Not sure this fellow has done much to further the subject though.


edit on 27-6-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by Dynamike
No, no, no. The only thing that causes the structure of the atoms of our brain to have consciousness is the continual wave enumerated through the structure of our brain.

We live at about 40 "frames of consciousness" each second. This means are momentary gaps of unconsciousness in our brains but are overlapped like continuous waves, somewhat how the brainwave function occurs. This operates off of the quantum superposition theory.

To be clear, any structure can have moments of consciousness. A star can have consciousness, or parts of it perhaps, at random times. However, since there is no brain structure the information would not go anywhere.

Your consciousness might mean everything to you but it is not much of anything. In fact it is nothing. You will never regain consciousness after you die. You will never experience anything else. Others will, but it does not matter because you will be dead.

Only the continuation of waves of consciousness matters, and each of ours is not even a sand on the beach of what the scale of the universal consciousness is; especially what it will be. I'm sorry but you all would likely require hundreds of lifetimes of thought to begin to understand what you are a part of. We are but a mere tool and ironically we believe we are the only living thing in the universe. We believe that space is nothing and time can not exist without it. We believe that a rock is not living. In fact, the rock is as much a part of what you might understand as life as any of us. If you could only understand the great lengths of the process that brought matter into this womb. If you could begin to understand that the laws of physics and the substance of matter which the universe is made of is the equal of the DNA in your genetic sequence you may begin to understand what your life is part of.


Look at my posts in this thread.

we do live many lifetimes here, repeating until we understand things. we then choose to stay here and help others find their beliefs, or we go back fulfilled with the experiences we had.

I also believe in the consciousness of our universe including all matter being a form of it. the problem lies in humans not being able to seperate themself from their own experiences. we have no way to know what its really like to be that tree or rock, so we dismiss it just as being part of this reality beyond something to look at.

people talk a lot about understanding, but the reality is, few of us in this world have had the chance to figure things out on our own. throughout history, the majority of the population has been forced one way or another into beieving what they are told to believe.
edit on 27-6-2012 by kalisdad because: spelling



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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Conversations like this should not be left to those with PhdS in Quantum physics as someone up the thread said. We should all be encouraged to explore our reality through thinking and come up with thought experiments and what ifs. We are human and it is a beautiful inquisitive part of our nature to think in this way.

Philosphy is all about pondering in a logical way about stuff like this. I have done it and come to the logical conclusion that there is a God. Not a man with a long white beard who is constantly judging us but an unfathomable singular source of everything in the universe a constant carrier signal for light energy matter and thought. God is the reason things move the way they do, why things form spirals and we can see the fibonanci pattern everywhere and not just chaotic shapes.

It is only when we shut off all external distractions through meditation and look deep within ourselves that we can get a glimpse of God, this source of absolutly everything and then suddenly you feel like everything is going to be ok.

I suggest if this thread excites you then you look into the work of the Modern day philospher Peter Russel. Here is a video where he tackles this very subject. When i watched it I was blown away as he managed to put into simple words what I have been begining to see for my self but not having the intellect to put it into words





edit on 27-6-2012 by MrSpiderMonkey because: spelling

edit on 27-6-2012 by MrSpiderMonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-6-2012 by MrSpiderMonkey because: poor spelling!



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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The entire universe follows a recycling program. From plants in the dirt, rain, ocean currents, day and night, stardust composition in our bodies, molecules, atoms, skin cells, planets, galaxies and even our urine. To say we live and then just die would mean "we" are an exception to a universal rule.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by MrSpiderMonkey
Philosphy is all about pondering in a logical way about stuff like this. I have done it and come to the logical conclusion that there is a God. Not a man with a long white beard who is constantly juding us but an unfathomable singular source of everything in the universe a constant carrier single for light energy matter and thought.


I have done similar for a very long time and in some ways I agree. Though my logical conclusion is that the popular simplistic notion of a god who exists outside the laws of nature, a being who suspends nature on a whim, makes moralistic rules, punishes and rewards etc, doesn't exist outside of mythology.

There is something though, I have experienced it. Something similar to what you describe. Though the mind is also subject to delusion, so taking this into consideration, I couldn't say it was a truth.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by FlySolo
The entire universe follows a recycling program. From plants in the dirt, rain, ocean currents, day and night, stardust composition in our bodies, molecules, atoms, skin cells, planets, galaxies and even our urine. To say we live and then just die would mean "we" are an exception to a universal rule.


This is just semantics, everything physical thing is constantly changing. Yet this doesn't mean that our biological change from living to non living matter allows our individual sense of consciousnesses to continue, either.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by reddwhite
 


Rocket surgery?
That's a new one.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


I just had to register and comment when I read your comment, Unity Emissions! So please forgive a total newbie chipping in.

You raise a good point and one that is still a great conundrum to most doctors I believe.

What does happen to consciousness during and after stroke?

Nearly a decade ago, I had the misfortune to suffer a rare type of thankfully reasonably mild ischaemic stroke. It left me with many deficits most of which have thankfully resolved now.

As someone who'd done a couple of years studying quantum consciousness academically at pg level, I was fascinated at my brain's malfunctions and also what I am pretty sure were/are windows to a different type or quality of consciousness.

My experience in toto would be off topic here, but my core point is that 'deficits' in any form of brain trauma or shutdown are defined by the observer and/or are entirely related to one's inability to function in generally accepted consensus, material reality.

Alongside what others thought of as deficits, I experienced extraordinary an all pervasive love and peace - a glimpse of another universe that strongly suggested so many more possibilities for humankind. I also experienced something which is a gift and a tribulation - some form of ability to see directly into people's hearts, to get a direct, non-verbal, non-intellectual, non-judgmental appreciation of their characters and intentions.

I believe that I worked with those, and other stroke-related gifts, to recover (which is perhaps a potential route to new therapies?). I retain the memory of a halcyon way of being which is actually accessible to all, and cannot help but experience the insight ability everyday. (NB. I was not and am not medicated apart from aspirin).

That all needs far more description and explanation. It could just be that one part of my brain was shut down thus allowing other, more 'innocent' and intuitive areas of our material brain's chemical-mechanical apparatus to dominate. Maybe it's as MrSpiderMonkey says: "It is only when we shut off all external distractions through meditation and look deep within ourselves that we can get a glimpse of God, this source of absolutly everything and then suddenly you feel like everything is going to be ok."

But for this discussion, those who write off people with material brain damage (or even brain death?) are invariably the observers who feel they have the right and the power to define another's experience: 'With my [limited] consciousness and knowledge, I see someone who's not as good as me at functioning at my normal [limited, material] level. So they must be less-than me.'

One important thing also, it's entirely changed my responses to those coping with more debilitating stroke and dementia - and even the 'last stages' of life. Now I know that somewhere inside them is a whole and fully functional consciousness or expansion of consciousness in operation. It's just that their capacity to communicate their functionality is limited at our 'normal', material and limited level.

Jill Bolte Taylor's experience of brain damage due to hemorrhagic stroke is amazingly illuminating:
www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

Anyway, I survived! And can honestly say that from whatever perspective I look, there are other ways of being conscious. From my subjective experience, these could well be independent of material brain integrity/health.


edit on 27-6-2012 by Yonder because: Quote fellow poster; clarification.




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