Jesus Christ keeps us saved forever

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thirteen Official SDA Baptismal Vows

In order to be baptised, SDAs must agree to 13 vows. The ones that are false are:
6. ‘I accept the 10 Commandments as still binding upon Christians, and it is my purpose by the
power of the indwelling Christ, to keep this law, including the 4th Commandment, which requires
the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord.’

8. ‘I accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of
the identifying marks of the remnant church.’

11. ‘I know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh Day Adventist
Church. It is my purpose, by the grace of God, to order my life in harmony with these principles.’

13. ‘I accept that the Seventh Day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy.’

Originally posted by fireyaguns
We cannot lose Christ's salvation.

Once saved always saved ..... the dangerous doctrine of devils.
It's absolute bunk. ANYONE can screw up and throw away salvation.
Salvation is a gift. Gifts can be returned or thrown away.

Oh .. and no one is going to hell because they have their main day of 'in common' worship of God on Sunday and not Saturday. That's ABSURD. Christians worship God all week long and God isn't going to send people to hell because they get together on one day rather than another during the week. Anyone who says others are going to hell based on what day they 'worship in common' .... they don't know who God is and they are just messed up.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is DENYING THE WORD OF GOD.

Q, how was the Word of God written?
A, the Holy Spirit.

If you deny the Word of God you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31-32 (Larger context: 12:22-37)

31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the [age] to come.

Mark 3:28-30 (Larger context: 3:20-30)

28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
30 because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

Luke 12:10
10 "And everyone who will speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him.

Read and accept I John 1:7: "…but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

reply to post by fireyaguns

6. Tertullian 150-240 AD (Volume 3, Page 70).
"The Holy Spirit upbraids the Jews with their holy-days. Your Sabbaths, and new
moons, and ceremonies" says He, "My soul hateth." By us, to whom Sabbaths
are strange, and the new moons and festivals formerly beloved by God ..."

I can actually expound on this. It is prophecied that the sabbaths, and ceremonies and feastdays would be done away with and they are except by those whom choose to hang onto what he has stated he hates.

Hosea 2 is one prophecy where the sabbaths, ceremonies and feastdays would end and refers to the wife who whored around on him who is Israel:

Hosea 2:11

11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease,
Her feast days,
Her New Moons,
Her Sabbaths—
All her appointed feasts.

I think this is a last days prophecy, and Yeshua said the Last Days had already begun 2000 years ago so it is relevant to current times. Isaiah also says something on it.

Isaiah 1:10-15

10 Hear the word of the Lord,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the law of our God,
You people of Gomorrah:
11 “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats.

12 “When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.

So we know that they were not supposed to be doing any of that stuff.

Jeremiah 7:8-26

8 “Behold, you trust in lying words that cannot profit. 9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods whom you do not know, 10 and then come and stand before Me in this house which is called by My name, and say, ‘We are delivered to do all these abominations’? 11 Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it,” says the Lord.

12 “But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I set My name at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel. 13 And now, because you have done all these works,” says the Lord, “and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you did not hear, and I called you, but you did not answer, 14 therefore I will do to the house which is called by My name, in which you trust, and to this place which I gave to you and your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. 15 And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brethren—the whole posterity of Ephraim.

16 “Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them, nor make intercession to Me; for I will not hear you. 17 Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger. 19 Do they provoke Me to anger?” says the Lord. “Do they not provoke themselves, to the shame of their own faces?”

20 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Behold, My anger and My fury will be poured out on this place—on man and on beast, on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground. And it will burn and not be quenched.”

21 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices and eat meat. 22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’ 24 Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt until this day, I have even sent to you all My servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them. 26 Yet they did not obey Me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck. They did worse than their fathers.


Now you see why Israel is a wasteland when in Abraham's time it was lush and fertile with green fields?

reply to post by fireyaguns

Church Fathers Observing SUNDAY, not SATURDAY, are:

1. Justin Martyr 100-165 AD (Volume 1, Page 186).

the above page number would work if someone had that specific book.
Anyone who may want to read this in context can online.
EarlyChristian Writings
This is in Apology 1.
Scroll down to CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS. which is towards the bottom of the page.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

What commentaries are those? Did you find the most obscure Adventist commentators you could possibly find?

You type in 'colossians 2:16' in a search engine, one of the first links that comes up is this link
bible.cc...

The commentaries are taken from there....it is the most well known site for parallel text comparison and unbiased commentaries on the web, the opposite of 'obscure Adventist' only

reply to post by troubleshooter

None of your living by the light saves JG

Actually, it does (keep you saved)...if one follows the light of the Holy Spirit then you are 'in Christ', if you reject the light of the Holy Spirit you will be rejected, just as 'FlyersFan' has said

Those who through all Earth's ages have never heard of Jesus or come across a Bible will be judged based on the best light they had....do you think it is just for an all loving God to rule someone out of Heaven based on factors solely determined by where and when someone was born?

reply to post by fireyaguns

In order to be baptised, SDAs must agree to 13 vows. The ones that are false are:

What is the point of bringing up this?.....we have already discussed baptism here

How do you know any of them are wrong.....you can't, so the point of your judgement upon them is???

How much Ellen White have you actually read to make yourself an authority

reply to post by FlyersFan

they don't know who God is and they are just messed up

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands

Official Statements from the your Roman Catholic Church FlyersFan:

“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” — Rome’s Challenge immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.

“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).

“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” — Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”

“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai...Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity--love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)...The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day...He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy...” — The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.

“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” — Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).

“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day’? I answer no!”
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.” — John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” — Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” — American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” — American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.

“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” — Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.” — father T. Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, February 18, 1884, printed in History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

The (Roman Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.” — The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” — Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
“1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
“2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws...
“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.” — Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”.

“I am going to propose a very plain and serious question to those who follow ‘the Bible and the Bible only’ to give their most earnest attention. It is this: Why don’t you keep holy the Sabbath day?...
“The command of the Almighty God stands clearly written in the Bible in these words: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work.’ Exodus 20:8-10...

“You will answer me, perhaps, that you do keep the Sabbath; for that you abstain from all worldly business and diligently go to church, and say your prayers, and read your Bible at home every Sunday of your lives...
“But Sunday is not the Sabbath day. Sunday is the first day of the week: the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. Almighty God did not give a commandment that men should keep holy one day in seven; but He named His own day, and said distinctly: ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’; and He assigned a reason for choosing this day rather than any other - a reason which belongs only to the seventh day of the week, and cannot be applied to the rest. He says, ‘For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it’, Exodus 20:11, Genesis 2:1-3. Almighty God ordered that all men should rest from their labor on the seventh day, because He too had rested on that day: He did not rest on Sunday, but on Saturday. On Sunday, which is the first day of the week, He began the work of creation; He did not finish it. It was on Saturday that He ‘ended His work which he had made: and God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.’ Genesis 2:2-3...

“Nothing can be more plain and easy to understand than all this; there is nobody who attempts to deny it. It is acknowledged by everybody that the day which Almighty God appointed to be kept holy was Saturday, not Sunday. Why do you then keep holy the Sunday and not Saturday?

“You will tell me that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed! But by whom? Who has the authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’, who shall dare to say, ‘Nay, thou mayest work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day: but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead?’ This is a most important question, which I know not how you answer...

“You are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a manner as the observance of one day in seven as the holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that day which the Bible has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the Ten Commandments; you believe that the other nine are still binding. Who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principles, if you really follow the Bible, and the Bible only you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.” Excerpts from “Why Don’t You Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?”, pages 3-15 in The Clifton Tract, vol. 4, published by the Roman Catholic Church 1869.

“The arguments...are firmly grounded on the word of God, and having been closely studied with the Bible in hand, leave no escape for the conscientious Protestant except the abandonment of Sunday worship and the return to Saturday, commanded by their teacher, the Bible, or, unwilling to abandon the tradition of the Catholic Church, which enjoins the keeping of Sunday, and which they have accepted in direct opposition to their teacher, the Bible, consistently accept her (the Catholic Church) in all her teachings. Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicism and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, in Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.

The question remains for you FlyersFan, should we follow the Bible as our only guide and keep the Sabbath-day like the R.C.C says the Bible commands followers of it do, or do we follow the commands of men made-up from no scriptural basis? Do you follow God's WORD or man's assumed authority (which is shown to be against God's)....

reply to post by FlyersFan


If Adventist's 'are just messed up'...they why does your Roman Catholic Church say they are the only ones upholding the Bible as their teacher:

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

"The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who could find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation," Seventh-day Adventists. "They're cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New testaments, literally kept by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day, and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God while on earth." -Rome's Challenge, page two

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"
--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

What does God say about commands of men based on tradition:

(Matthew 15:3,6,9) But He answered and said to them, why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?...And you void the commandment of God by your tradition...But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

-"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men...And he said to them. 'You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions.'" Mark 7:7,9

Sunday was the name given by the heathens to the first day of the week, because it was the day on which they worshiped the sun." John Eadie, D.D., LL.D. A Bible Cyclopedia, p. 561

'Webster's International Dictionary, 19th edition' - Sunday...so called because this day was anciently dedicated to the sun, or its worship

I will not venerate the pagan sun god Apollo (Satan) by keeping the day dedicated to him over the Creator

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, who is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue he has the name Apollyon

reply to post by fireyaguns

Keeping the Saturday Sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic Covenant between
God and Jews only (Exodus 31:13,14,16,17).

And what 'Mosaic Covenant' were Adam and Eve follow in the Garden of Eden (link, or the Hebrews in Egypt in Exodus 5:5 or when they were collecting manna before receiving the 10 commandments, or the commands in the New covenant (Isaiah 56:6,7 and Isaiah 58:13,14), and the commands in the New Testament (Hebrews 4:9) and that the Sabbath is still kept in the New Heaven and the New Earth (Isaiah 66:22-23)

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that ye should follow his steps:
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

and the example Jesus laid for us was...?

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went in to the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Luke 4:16

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. Heb. 13:8

It is called the Divine Law with us from the beginning and continued all through even in eternity in Heaven

Matthew 5:18 Verily I say to you, til Heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle may pass away from the law...

Heaven and Earth never pass away, the Divine Law stands forever!

Notice that God says on four occasions that sabbath-keeping is a sign between God
and Israel, and that the Sabbath is to be kept throughout their generations, forever.
"Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth ... the giving of the law..." Romans 9:4

And guess who is 'the children of Israel' are now (every follower of Jesus)

pt. 2 - Pt. 3 - Pt. 4 - Pt. 5 - Pt. 6

Church Fathers Observing SUNDAY, not SATURDAY, are:

If they are not going to follow what the Word says then that is their problem

3. Early Christians Met on the First Day of the Week, Sunday, in:
Acts 20:7.

No they didn't, Acts 20:7 argument refuted and shown to be misunderstood the way you are suggesting it

1 Corinthians 16:2

Passage again refuted showing you are misunderstood again

Your John 20 verses has no reference to worship service taking place or Sunday sanctioned by Jesus.

Romans 14 'any day can be sabbath' refuted

Colossians 2:16 refuted adnosium already

Sixteen Times we are told that the MOSAIC LAW is FINISHED for Believers. KEY:

And never once the Divine Law which is different from the Mosaic Law..I love how you continue to misrepresent my position over and over and over again in DISHONEST argument

Your Galations arguments fully refuted, more misunderstandings by you

i) "Ye are not under law, but under grace ..." Romans 6:14,15

Not under law as a way of salvation. Law reveals sin (Romans 3:20), but can not forgive it or help in overcoming it. The sanctuary system revealed in the Torah lacked actual power to free humans from sin (see Hebrews 9:9-10). 'Under grace' denotes the new existence under the guidance of the Holy Spirit

- to be continued (from your Romans 7 passages an onwards until you have no legs to stand on, how about spending some time arguing against my points for once instead of always ignoring them completely and trying to establish your point with shear quantity of content that turns out to be all misunderstood passages)

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

None of your living by the light saves JG

Actually, it does (keep you saved)...if one follows the light of the Holy Spirit then you are 'in Christ', if you reject the light of the Holy Spirit you will be rejected, just as 'FlyersFan' has said

Those who through all Earth's ages have never heard of Jesus or come across a Bible will be judged based on the best light they had....do you think it is just for an all loving God to rule someone out of Heaven based on factors solely determined by where and when someone was born?

This is a comfy idea JG but can you give me scripture for it?

reply to post by troubleshooter

Everyone is saved on the same basis ... it is a gift of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

None of your living by the light saves JG.

"Living by the light" is what we are saved to.
You are inserting your own definition which is probably being handed a guaranteed ticket to heaven, while ignoring how "saved" is defined by the context, which is being taken from a sinful life of following Satan, to being brought into a good life following Jesus to be made presentable to God.

I have a general question for all people to answer here....

For those holding the theology of 'once saved always saved' please outline the purpose of why God spared Satan's life when he first transgressed God's (divine) Law and the reason that we are on this planet now with Satan the 'ruler of this world' and why God guarantees to destroy Satan at a later time, why not straight away? Please include some association with free will and that God never changes


I ask this because I understand it perfectly in light of my theology but I don't see how OSAS can explain it.... I am all ears

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


IF satan exists, he has a purpose. Just like everything else...

Personally i believe "satan" is nothing more then an excuse for people to do selfish things... a way to place blame.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
I have a general question for all people to answer here....

For those holding the theology of 'once saved always saved' please outline the purpose of why God spared Satan's life when he first transgressed God's (divine) Law and the reason that we are on this planet now with Satan the 'ruler of this world' and why God guarantees to destroy Satan at a later time, why not straight away? Please include some association with free will and that God never changes


I ask this because I understand it perfectly in light of my theology but I don't see how OSAS can explain it.... I am all ears

edit on 5-7-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

As I understand it the OSAS idea applies to humans not fallen angelic beings.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Everyone is saved on the same basis ... it is a gift of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

None of your living by the light saves JG.

"Living by the light" is what we are saved to.
You are inserting your own definition which is probably being handed a guaranteed ticket to heaven, while ignoring how "saved" is defined by the context, which is being taken from a sinful life of following Satan, to being brought into a good life following Jesus to be made presentable to God.

There is an order to salvation...
...we are first saved through faith and then walk in the Spirit.

We are saved at the beginning and not at the end of that journey.

We are totally presentable to God at the beginning because of Jesus righteousness.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by fireyaguns
We cannot lose Christ's salvation.

Once saved always saved ..... the dangerous doctrine of devils.
It's absolute bunk. ANYONE can screw up and throw away salvation.
Salvation is a gift. Gifts can be returned or thrown away.

I agree that humans can be unfaithful but what of the faithfulness of God...
...you might stuff up the relationship but will God remain constant?

The criticism that is focused on this doctrine...
...is that a person will run amuck if they think their salvation is secure..
...but to reject it also brings God's faithfulness into question...
...that He is not able to hold onto and direct the path of the person once saved.

I have no faith in my ability to hold on but I have no doubt at all about His ability to hold me.

I like Paul can say "I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

Perhaps the saying could be altered to read...
...Once Saved Always Saved if the Lord keeps me Saved.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


SDA Statements that Ellen White was God’s Inspired Prophet

Before 1980 all SDAs viewed Ellen White as an inspired prophet. In 1980 Walter Rea proved and
published that 80-90% of her ‘inspired writings and visions’ were plagiarised or copied from James
White who copied them from J N Andrews. Now, modern SDA leaders are watering down their
church’s stand on White’s inspiration, saying things like,
‘White’s writings are not a replacement of the Bible’.

Note that Adventists, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses share these qualities:
a) All were born in the 1800s;
b) All claimed to have direct inspiration from God at their founding;
c) All claimed to have the gift or spirit of prophecy.

Consider these SDA claims that White was God’s prophet:

a) Clause 17 of SDA Creed: ‘This gift (of prophecy) is an identifying mark of the remnant
church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G White.
As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth
which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction and correction.’

b) Back cover of The Great Controversy, 1975 edition claims that:
‘Ellen G White (1827-1915) . . . is considered to have been inspired by God.
Many of her prophecies about world events and the modern day condition of man have
already been dramatically fulfilled.’

c) In 1876 she wrote: ‘In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles.
In these days He speaks to them by the Testimonies of His Spirit’ (ie White’s writings).
(EGW, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 4, p. 147-8, Testimony 27:1876).

d) In 1882 she wrote: ‘If you lessen the confidence of God’s people in the testimonies He has
sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abiram.’
(EGW, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 66, Testimony 31, 1882).

e) In 1882 she wrote: ‘When I was in Colorado . . . I wrote many pages to be read at your camp
meeting. God was speaking through clay. I am presenting to you what the Lord has presented
to me. They are what God has opened before me in vision – the precious rays of light shining
from the throne.’ (EGW, Selected Messages, Book 1, p 27).
Consider these official SDA statements of inspiration for Ellen G White:

f) SDA Sabbath School Quarterly, Teachers Edition, p 112, Feb 11, 1978:
‘The Bible and the writings of Ellen White are inerrant.’

g) Official SDA position, in The Advent Review and Herald, 4 Oct 1928:
‘Her writings should be received the same as were the messages of the prophets of old. As
Samuel was a prophet of Israel for his day; as Jeremiah was a prophet of Israel for the days of
captivity; as John the Baptist came as a special messenger of the Lord to prepare the way for
Christ’s Coming, so we believe that Mrs White was a prophet to the Church of Christ today.’

h) Louis Venden quoted on the cassette tape, The Wilson Committee, Rea on Ellen G White:
‘I believe that The Desire of Ages (White’s book), for example, is just as high in quality of
degree of inspiration as the Gospel according to Luke.’
i) Kenneth Wood, Editor of Review, as quoted in RH 4 Sept 1980, p15:
‘Ellen G White was inspired in the same sense as were the Bible prophets.’

j) Ron Graybill, Assoc Sec, EGW Estate, in a talk at Southern Missionary College on 27 Sep 80:
‘The quality of inspiration of Ellen White is equal to that of Bible writers.’

k) Philip Follett, tape, ‘What Happened at Glacier View’, PUC, 23 Aug 1980:
‘The writings of Ellen White are inspired in the same sense as the Bible is inspired.’

l) Moving Out, Unit 4, p.115: ‘Ellen received a second vision in which God called her formally
to work for Him as a prophet’.