Jesus Christ keeps us saved forever

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No, I'm talking about Philippians 2:13.

That verse is speaking corporately in regards to the Philipians church.
Another case of your use of out-of-context "proof texts" while ignoring the broader teachings of Paul.

edit on 7-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Really so where does Paul's writings contradict the idea that it's the work of the Holy Spirit to sanctify us? Where does this humanocentric gospel come from??? So the Holy Spirit changed the wills of the believers at Philippi only? Just them? God is in fact a respecter of persons after all??

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So the Holy Spirit changed the wills of the believers at Philippi only?

You are just making up a theory based on a misunderstood verse that you are trying to apply to yourself on an individual basis, something the verse was not meant to do.
It just looks like more weaseling from your side to blame God if your conversion is only partial, when in fact it is just your own resistance to it for the sake of cherished sin.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I have no idea what you're talking about. I can personally attest to the reality of Philippians 2:13 in my life. The things I used to love to do that were sins I now abhor and don't have a desire to do them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I have no idea what you're talking about. I can personally attest to the reality of Philippians 2:13 in my life. The things I used to love to do that were sins I now abhor and don't have a desire to do them.

Are you sure you are talking about the right verse?
That is Paul talking about how God is at work within the Philippian church.
The verse has a context, it is part of a passage by Paul describing the church and is addressing the church as a whole and how it is God's will that there be a people of that city who have taken to heart Paul's message and persevere as Paul had done in establishing that church.

2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, continue working out your salvation with awe and reverence,
2:13 for the one bringing forth in you both the desire and the effort – for the sake of his good pleasure – is God.
2:14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing,
2:15 so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God without blemish though you live in a crooked and perverse society, in which you shine as lights in the world
2:16 by holding on to the word of life so that on the day of Christ I will have a reason to boast that I did not run in vain nor labor in vain.
2:17 But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice together with all of you.
2:18 And in the same way you also should be glad and rejoice together with me.

You seem to be trying to use this isolated single verse from this passage as a proof text to create a doctrine to where your responsibility for exercising your will is transferred over to God so that your failure to stop sinning is placed on God, then having an excuse, and being freed up to assert your claim to force God to rapture you to heaven by a concocted formula to trade Jesus' blood for your sins.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So since none of the NT epistles are titled "Americans" then that means none of the NT is applicable to us here in the states? So you are saying God changes the will of the believers at Philippi but no other believers correct?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Are you paying attention? Who said or is talking about a "failure to stop sinning?". No one has said that or implied that. I just said my experience has been in line with that verse. My desires and will have been changed. The things I used to love doing i no longer love to do. I hate those former sins and dont even have a desire to go back to them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So you are saying God changes the will of the believers at Philippi but no other believers correct?

You could describe your thought process that takes that passage in Philippians and get from it that God is changing your will.
You know, there is a thing that is called maturity, where things you thought were fun when you were twenty seem rather boring or too simplistic when you are older, and I think you may be just kidding yourself thinking that this amounts to proof that you are saved.
What Paul was talking about was a dramatic change in people's lives that happened virtually overnight, where they went from living lives of sin in ignorance, to living for God in virtuous lives, not a tiny incremental improvement over twenty years that gives you some sort of self satisfaction.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Philippians 2:13

It says God changes our will to do His good pleasure. And brilliant, so you're saying folks don't need Jesus or the ministry of the Holy Spirit they just need to grow up right? Why are you so violently opposed to folks glorifying God on here? I'm praising the Lord for doing exactly what His Word says He will do and that burns you up inside.. why is that Dewey?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm saying you are looking for a sign in ordinary things to show that you can now relax because you have shown the minimum amount of sincerity in having a "conversion" in order to have your guaranteed ticket for the Rapture.
I think a real conversion would not leave one grasping for proofs of salvation. The Bible was not written to be a how-to for salvation as if you can follow specific steps. Learning texts and reciting formulas is not how one is saved. Salvation is not found by gaming the system through compiling verses taken out of context and rearranged to make a retrospective to asses your worthiness.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Yeah,.. again, no one suggested any of that. Focus JM. When the Word says that we can "know" we have eternal life that doesnt mean we can have a reasonable clue, or the we can hope to have it, it says we can "know". Christ declared, that all who call upon His name He will never cast out. Was He lying? You're saying i must tremble and live in fear my whole life the He will cast out people who called upon His Name? That I can NOT "know" if i have eternal life? What other scriptures can/should we completely reject?

And I've repeatedly said in this forum that the rapture is a blessing for the overcomer, not for salvation and if it came today I doubt I'd be sufficiently "overcome" to be raptured and stand before the Son of Man. And i actually prefer that because i have a great number of friends and family members who are not yet saved. So please, opine some more completely out your backside.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So I can scratch you off the list of people to watch in order to tell if the Rapture happened yet?
So you think you can be saved despite not being an overcomer?
What sort of salvation do you have, a less hot spot in hell?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So I can scratch you off the list of people to watch in order to tell if the Rapture happened yet?
So you think you can be saved despite not being an overcomer?
What sort of salvation do you have, a less hot spot in hell?

edit on 7-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

What is so hard to understand about the rapture being a blessing for the overcomer not a blessing for salvation? If you look at the letters in Revelation 2 and 3 some will be spared from the Great Trib and some will have to endure it. Were also told to "pray that were accounted worthy" to escape it. Silly prayer to have us pray if all the redeemed will be raptured. You were attacking me when you thought that i was assuming I would be raptured, and now you're attacking me when you learned I doubt I'd be going in the rapture.

Do you just sit in front of the mirror and argue just for the sake of arguing?

reply to post by jmdewey60


And what about the Word that says we can "know" that we have eternal life? You say we can not know. Explain?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

What is so hard to understand about the . . .

All your stuff is because you just get handed what to believe today from your cult leader without any explanation.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Gotcha.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

And what about the Word that says we can "know" that we have eternal life? You say we can not know. Explain?

You don't go looking for tangible proof to go parading around.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And what about the Word that says we can "know" that we have eternal life? You say we can not know. Explain?

You don't go looking for tangible proof to go parading around.

So the gospel writer says we can know yet you claim we cannot. Why should we trust jmdewey60 over John the Revelator? John says we can know, Jesus said we can know, and jm says that's rubbish and we can't "know"..

Explain how you trump Jesus and John please and thanks.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


There are 222 uses of the Greek word for to know in the New Testament.
After looking at them, my conclusion is that you know when you are perfected.

Whatever theory you have is just that, a theory.

2 Peter 2:18-22
Deceptions of False Teachers
King James Version (KJV)

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Game Over, again...

Don't just read 2 Peter 2:18-22 as old mate JG has taken out of text.

READ ALL OF 2 PETER 2 and you will get a the truth.

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious waysa; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise governmentb. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.  11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against themc before the Lord.  12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adulteryd, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:  15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were cleane escaped from them who live in error.  19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.