How to build Puma Punka and the Pyramids in 21.7 years using only the tech of Ancient Man?

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
If they'd had these technologies the Spanish fleet would have been intercepted off the coast of Mexico by an air armada of zeppelins and sunk by acid bombs...

I know Honda cars can last 15 or 20 years, but to expect a hydrogen filled Hindenburg to survive 11,400 years seems a bit stretching it.

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
How many pigs bladders would it take to fill a mile long Zeppelin?


When pigs fly?

Astronomic...but, as any pork belly trader on the Chicago Exchanges can confirm, pigs can breed like fies under the right conditions, if you are prepared to put in the effort, particularly as they will live on nearly any slops you give them. Heck, they'll even eat Wendy Burgers.

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by theduke269
Finally read the whole thread. I like this idea but I don't know if that's how they did it. One question. You said that if the zeppelins were in trouble they could jettison the stone to avoid crashing and that explains why there are stones on the side of the mountains. While it was cargo it was also ballast. If they could lift stones of that size I don't see any amount of men being able to hold it down if they suddenly had to cut their losses. At least not the amount of men they would have had on hand at that time.

They would be jettisoning it SPECIFICALLY to cause extreme rapid rising to avoid impact with the mountain wall.

So lose the zeppelin crashing into a mountain or lose it due to "extreme rapid rising"? Either way its lost. Not counting the men on it that would float away with it.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by bearwithredhat
Deary me, you are all impatient.

The largest blocks on the planet of stones are, I understand , the 10,000 ton basement stones at Baalbeck.

Then you do not understand.

No "10,000 ton... stone" exists in any ancient construction.

The large stones at Baalbek weigh around 800 tons each.

No, they were not "lifted" into place, nor was any other large stone in any ancient ruin.

At Baalbek, the stones were simply dragged into place, as they are almost right on the bottom.

At other sites, where stones had to go higher, they were dragged up ramps.

Harte

It has been shown that a ramp up the side of the pyramids could not have stood and would have collapsed under its own weight. Further more, if made of stone, that in itself would have been wonder-worthy and massively increased the time to build the pyramids as well as there being no indication of one having existed.

Originally posted by Laokin

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by ajay59
Ancient man never erected any stone monument with stones weighing more than a few tons! If anyone out there thinks different, PROVE IT!

In fact, I would like to see anyone prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that ancient man built anything! That's what I thought, no proof just speculation!

edit on 25-6-2012 by ajay59 because: (no reason given)

Can you not read? I never stated that I can PROVE that this is what Ancient man did, only to DISPROVE claims that ANcient Man COULD NOT have done it.

Yes, this is speculation, but the facts do match up.

I just want to put this out here.... Because I believe it conclusively proves any "Man Made It" theory false.

Every megalithic structure created on the earth, every single one... are aligned.

If you were to put a pentagram over the globe aligned to Sirius, and then another overlaying it to form a compass rose, every megalithic structure falls on the point or an intersecting line of the two pentagrams.

Stone Henge, Puma Punka, Giza, et, al.

How could they all be aligned to each other, and aligned to the heavens. How could they all be doing this on the other sides of the globe without contact with each other? It's simply impossible.

You guys should check out Geometry and David Flynn. (He's deceased, but before he died he uncovered the truth through geometry.)

edit on 26-6-2012 by Laokin because: (no reason given)

Just because it might have been DESIGNED and MANAGED by Aliens, does not mean that it was not BUILT by human, albeit under direction.

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by coyote66
The lever used might not be wooden. At least not in the sense of solid logs. They might use some sort of rope or something sewed together (like they use bamboo in Asia), made from plants or wooden material. More flexible, but with strong fiber characteristics.

And as the center piece, to actually lift the massive stones, they might use other stones. Even I myself am doubting the theory too... : |

edit on 26-6-2012 by coyote66 because: (no reason given)

What is with you poeple???? Huh????

Not once have I suggested that levers be used. They are utterly unnecessary in my theory.

How can you doubt my theory on the basis of something that is not involved?

It is like loathing Beethoven's 1812 Overture because you don't like the Banjo Solo.

right, a zeppelin is of course a far more acceptable and rational explaination, rather than my flexible stone lever theory

just one question, where did those zeppelines went when the spaniards invaded meso and south america, mate? oh i know, they might be busy exploring the moon by that time then!!! nice theory OP!!!

Originally posted by theduke269

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Finally read the whole thread. I like this idea but I don't know if that's how they did it. One question. You said that if the zeppelins were in trouble they could jettison the stone to avoid crashing and that explains why there are stones on the side of the mountains. While it was cargo it was also ballast. If they could lift stones of that size I don't see any amount of men being able to hold it down if they suddenly had to cut their losses. At least not the amount of men they would have had on hand at that time.

They would be jettisoning it SPECIFICALLY to cause extreme rapid rising to avoid impact with the mountain wall.

Not at all...you ditch the load to rapidly rise, then vent say some area to release a whole bunch of bladders to stabilise the height. Look, this isn't rocket science. It would be no different to what the Germans were doing in 1900.

So lose the zeppelin crashing into a mountain or lose it due to "extreme rapid rising"? Either way its lost. Not counting the men on it that would float away with it.

Originally posted by coyote66

The lever used might not be wooden. At least not in the sense of solid logs. They might use some sort of rope or something sewed together (like they use bamboo in Asia), made from plants or wooden material. More flexible, but with strong fiber characteristics.

The lumber would have trouble in not snapping with such pressure on the fulcum. Additionally, the quality of the ropes was poor.

right, a zeppelin is of course far more acceptable and rational explaination, rather than my flexible stone lever theory

Yes, as the pressure on the fulcrum for stones that large would be too great AND the rate of delivery would have been far too slow. Remember, they were setting something like one stone every few minutes into place at the pyramids. On the basis of stones and levers, they would have needed a ramp every side. Also, it fails to explain why they would go to all the trouble of persistently building on mountain tops.

just one question, where did those zeppelines went when the spaniards invaded meso and south america, mate?

As I have REPEATEDLY pointed out, the era in which I envisage this is some 10,000 years BC or so whilst the Spanish turned up some 11,500 years later or so.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


I really do like this idea. You put a lot of thought into it and have made a great argument for it. A mile long zeppelin. That's a lot of pig blatters. S&F for the thought and effort you put into this.

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by ajay59


What about the other points I raised such as quarrying, transporting and raising these massive stones. You've covered "welding them together" but how di we position these stones for welding?

It really, really is near impossible for me to come to any conclusion other than you are severely illiterate. This has ALL been answered in the huge post above?

Have you not read it? Have I not explained that NO levers were used?

The problem is that you didn't state any conclusions or present a theory. You just asked a series of rhetorical questions.

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by ajay59


What about the other points I raised such as quarrying, transporting and raising these massive stones. You've covered "welding them together" but how di we position these stones for welding?

It really, really is near impossible for me to come to any conclusion other than you are severely illiterate. This has ALL been answered in the huge post above?

Have you not read it? Have I not explained that NO levers were used?

The problem is that you didn't state any conclusions or present a theory. You just asked a series of rhetorical questions.

SIGH...gain, my post from Page Two for the Illiterate amongst us...

The only known device that can shift a 10,000 ton block of stone with ease in a single lift is… A ZEPPELIN.

As a basis, I have assumed that the central roadways were not roadways, but, in effect, a shipyard for the construction of Zeppelins, built in hard wood, and filled with hydrogen. The original, late Victorian Zeppelins actually were filled with pig’s bladders filled with hydrogen.

By using the stats for the Hindenburg I scaled up on the basis of the length of the main roadway through Puma Punku (which I believe was a mile long). I substituted the weight of lumber for steel. The lift was lower, but there would have been no passenger section to weigh it down. The result was a Zeppelin with a net lift marginally in excess of 10,000 tons, just great enough to have moved Baalbeck’s biggest stones.

Had a Zeppelin been used it would explain lists of things. Since these would have been dangerous in narrow valleys it would actually would have been easier and safer to built near the tops of mountains and to have used only the biggest stones, rather than having all the loading time of small stones and for greater stability. Also, had a zeppelin got into trouble, one can quite imagine the crew jettisoning a big stone that ends up pointlessl half way up the mountainside below.

This would also explain the positioning of the pramids and megoliths. Using trade winds, these could have voyaged across the Atlantic to Central America then traveled up the eastern seaboard to cross the Atlantic on the way back coming out near north west France and Britain.

Arriving in Britain after a storm crossing, these zeppelins would need a new supply of hydrogen and repairs, hence the magnetized stone circles like Stonehenge. By putting a copper wire bound rota in the centre of Stonehenge turned by horses, Stone henge then becomes a vast alternator, capable of generating electricity that could be used to electorlyse sea, salt or march water to produce…hydrogen. It is interesting to note that in many ancient civiliszations like the Romans and Greeks, the God of the Sea was alaso the God of the horse and in Ancient Britain, the Horse was their God.
To get back to “base camp” at the Great Pyramid, the Zeppelins would need to cross the Alps at the most shallow passes. This would then explain Ley Lines as indeed, it was originally pointed out that they curiously resemble trade routes yet cross mountains as if they are not there.

Most of these Ley Lines come out at places like Delphi which again is built near the clear to of a mountain… and thence on to Egypt. This incidentally, would also explain why parts of Antarctica are mapped, but ONLY the parts which happent o have trade winds.

For the pyramids, I assumed that the Zeppelins might have been pulled by horses on the ground. Assuming two of these Zeppelins, one taking a day to load and one at the other end taking a day to unload, it gave a round trip of one week, and incredibly dropped out the figure of 21.7 years to move all the necessary stones.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


That's one thing that always bugged me about ATS. Most of the posters that aren't directly involved in the discussion don't even look past page one before posting a comment that has been asked and answered.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


so you try to make us wise that thay were not capable of building a appropiate lever, yet they are smart enough to build an air ballon? now that made sense.....

what does it have anything to do with being built on top of a montain??? it was a monument of worship, makes some sense if they want to build it on high altitudes, wont you say?

right, and that advanced technology just wears off, they just abandoned it... just left it to be forgoten, just like that??? probably because they couldnt find any better purpose to use it for, because ancient ameroindians were as stupid as cattles, it might?? they just continue beheading and reaping out the heart organs of their sacrifies/enemies, but of course they didnt want to preserve their avionics technology.....

Interesting idea OP, it's one I've never came across before.


Sure, I suppose one could use a "lighter than air heavy lifting and transportation device."
For such a task, but to what extent, and capability - ?
Things like weight vs. lift , and other factors like navigation, crew (as it's obviously piloted)
and means would it operate? Obviously lot's of stuff to think about regarding that.

Let's just speculate a bit here, and assume that the ancient Egyptians had fairly decent
knowledge of the theory of buoyancy, and that is the basic premise of this
transporting and lifting blocks idea. As to the lifting medium itself, it would be hydrogen, helium
or superheated oxygen. (forced hot air)

IMHO I personally feel that the hot air aspect is not only easier to work with from a
rudimentary knowledge and could be more readily produced on demand
unlike H, or He, respectively.

A good cheap homebrew test would be to incorporate that idea with a block and tackle,
on a smaller scale. Using only things like simple kitestring, and fiber twine...
Perhaps a block and tackle, and some fixed pulleys for mechanical advantage.
See if you can get a regular sized (birthday style) helium balloon to lift ----
a standard three hole masonry brick - 8x4 inches in the US. IIRC.
(weight unknown)


But that is just my 2 cents. Caveat Emptor.

Does anyone think this hieroglyph has a possible connection to the Zeppelin theory or ancient advanced technology? It is my feeling that our ancestors were a lot smarter than mainstream history will admit, but all these myths, megaliths, hieroglyph, and cave art are intentional messages from the past saying these things happened. We need to lose our preconceived notions that our ancestors were dumb. The evidence show quite the contrary.

Found in the ancient temple of Abydos, Egypt.
One of the crafts even looks like a helicopter. Who knows maybe it is or maybe that's just what my modern eyes are conditioned to see.



By the way this is my first comment on ATS. I have been reading it for years.. Great thread here!! Had to join to contribute.

i mean you made a point to me earlier it is a open possibility .

Originally posted by GareyGaia
Does anyone think this hieroglyph has a possible connection to the Zeppelin theory or ancient advanced technology? It is my feeling that our ancestors were a lot smarter than mainstream history will admit, but all these myths, megaliths, hieroglyph, and cave art are intentional messages from the past saying these things happened. We need to lose our preconceived notions that our ancestors were dumb. The evidence show quite the contrary.

Found in the ancient temple of Abydos, Egypt.
One of the crafts even looks like a helicopter. Who knows maybe it is or maybe that's just what my modern eyes are conditioned to see.



By the way this is my first comment on ATS. I have been reading it for years.. Great thread here!! Had to join to contribute.

No, I do not believe anyone has thought that since the Abydos "UFOs" have been proven to be a text that was overwritten by another text (common practice in Egypt), forming the "helicopter" and "blimp" by mere coincidence. Our ancestors certainly werent dumb, they knew exactly what they where doing. They'd probably consider us dumb.

Interesting theory.

However there are several problems:

1) No hard historical evidence that shows ancient people using massive zeppelins.

2) You only factor in the time for moving the stones. What about the time to quarry the stones, carve the stones, and to build the pyramids?

Originally posted by ajay59

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by bearwithredhat

 

So, what is the only device, known to man that can shift a 10,000 ton block of raw granite with ease in a single action on its own?

That would be a lever.

Please demonstrate your theory for us all. Post a video of you lifting even a five thousand pound stone with a WOODEN lever!

I'm not the poster you were asking the answer from.....But here's a guy that has moved stones over a tonne, and even moved a barn using nothing but simple tools of wood and stone.

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

... "They" don't. They hate me for coming up with this, but I do, and I have checked the numbers and they drop out perfectly.

The reason why no-one has spotrted it so far is theat everyone is looking at advanced tech not for low level tech. Today's engineers could not do it, but ask a Victorian...and it's a cinch!

You mean pulleys, and fulcrums and such?...

Sorry but that's not true. Many of the stones used by the ancient are too big and would break in half if you used fulcrums and pulleys.

They tried to move one very large stone in Africa and it just broke in several parts.

There is a picture of it but I would need to find it.

People in the "Victorian" period made cathedrals and such with MUCH SMALLER rocks and blocks. The ancients used much larger blocks than the victorians would ever consider using.