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Antonin Scalia: SCOTUS Immigration logic "boggles the mind"

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posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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And just to counter all of the ridiculous "Obama isn't enforcing the law" claims:

Deportations Doubled Under Obama

Immigration Deportations Under Obama On Pace To Far Exceed Those Under Bush Administration




posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 
did it ever occur to you that ...

when deportation numbers are the highest they have ever been
might be in correlation with the exuberant amount crossing the border illegally and being caught ??
in spite of this administration's direct efforts to get the border agents killed via Fast & Furious ??

and btw, Obama isn't deporting anyone, other departments do.
Obama isn't defending the borders via policy or personally.
matter of fact, his treasonous acts are finally starting to catch up to him.

it is only a matter of time before his fate is as evident as those traitors before him.
personally, i think it would be magnimonously magnificient if all of the original 13 states filed secession orders prior to the political conventions.

(the more the merrier but the original 13 would really make a statement)
alas, we all have our fantasies, don't we ??



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



might be in correlation with the exuberant amount crossing the border illegally and being caught ??


Do you have proof that border crossings are up???

Or is this just made up in your head?

In fact...here is a source that says you are full of it.

www.usatoday.com...


and btw, Obama isn't deporting anyone, other departments do.


Well...if Obama isn't deporting anyone...then he can't be blamed for not deporting anyone.

Can't have it both ways.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

Do you have proof that border crossings are up???
between administrations, sure and this will be the last time i do Your homework ...
from 2005 ... www.migrationinformation.org...
from 2010 ... www.azcentral.com...

you should know by now, i don't spread BS.

the Obama policies CAN be blamed and are being blamed in a number of circles.
tis not i who placed blame on the man, why bother, he is only a puppet anyway.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
might be in correlation with the exuberant amount crossing the border illegally and being caught ??
in spite of this administration's direct efforts to get the border agents killed via Fast & Furious ??



Another blatant falsity.

Illegal Immigration rates have actually been down.


The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that about 11.2 million unauthorized immigrants were living in the United States as of 2010, down from a high of about 12 million a few years ago. About 8 million were thought to be in the workforce.


source


You guys can kick, scream, and move the goalposts all you want, but there's two major flaws with all of your arguments:

1. The AZ law was unconstitutional. Regardless of your personal opinions on the subject of immigration, if we allow one state to blatantly override the constitution for one issue, that would set the precedent for other states to override it similarly.

2. The federal government is enforcing immigration laws and in fact they are doing more so than previous administrations. Whether you feel like enough is being done is irrelevant. I think it's important to consider the logistics of removing 11 million people from US soil, it's not going to happen overnight. The fact that the Obama administration has increased deportations and the rate of illegal immigration has declined are both steps in the right direction.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

Do you have proof that border crossings are up???
between administrations, sure and this will be the last time i do Your homework ...
from 2005 ... www.migrationinformation.org...
from 2010 ... www.azcentral.com...

you should know by now, i don't spread BS.

the Obama policies CAN be blamed and are being blamed in a number of circles.
tis not i who placed blame on the man, why bother, he is only a puppet anyway.


Neither of your articles show that overall border crossings are increased under Obama...and that was your claim.

I mean...your one article is from 2005


And the other just says that more are filtering through Arizona due to a clamp down in TX and CA.


So...again...I will wait for you to do your own homework and backup your fictional claim that the only reason deportations are increased under Obama is because border crossings are also up.

I'm very patient...I can wait a long time and keep debunking your lies if you want to continue to play this game.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 
really, estimates work for you ??
i give you record and you toss out opinion ?? ok.

1. the heart of the AZ law was upheld unanimously, isn't that a shame?
[ps, the Constitution doesn't address immigration, subsequent acts of Congress do]

2. the Feds are doing everything they can to avoid enforcing ALL immigration laws.
the Supreme Fed/Mr Obama has single-handedly bypassed several immigration laws, but that isn't worth discussing, is it ?

my feelings aren't part of this discussion.
you want Constitutional standing ?? see the 2nd amendment.

why consider those logistics when the relative opposite could apply?
Monsanto, toxic soils, 11 million as fresh fertilizer, it's an option, like any other.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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I fail to see how Scalia's mind can be so boggled. The SCOTUS' job is to determine the constitutionality of laws. Under the Constitution the Federal Government is given the power to regulate immigration. With this law Arizona attempted to regulate immigration. Ergo it was unconstitutional. That seems like pretty simple logic right there.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


No because if you paid attention to any external quotes or links to any posts you would already know that border crossing is down 70% since 2005. What are you gonna do when there's no one left to blame but our elected and appointed idiots? Who are you gonna hate on, better yet who are the idiots going to tell to you hate? Blondes, brunettes, blue eyed people?

When are you going to grow up and stop eating the crap you are being fed and realize that all our problems that we face as citizens of this nation go far beyond political footballs that keep us yapping and biting each other's heads off. Illegal immigration is indeed a problem. Is it our biggest one? Not even close.

The Republicans exaggerate the seriousness and give a target for anger all the while not really doing much or doing things they know are too much and blaming Democrats for being too soft. Democrats cry how it's so wrong for Republicans to treat them they way they do, meanwhile they don't really do a damn thing either...the Dems throw them an oar completely ignoring the fact they need a boat. It's just as applicable to any legal citizens with entitlement programs...so much willful idiocy, no real solutions because how things are in this country is exactly how our government wants it to be.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93


1. the heart of the AZ law was upheld unanimously, isn't that a shame?
[ps, the Constitution doesn't address immigration, subsequent acts of Congress do]


Absolutely not a shame, as long as the unconstitutional aspects are shot down.



Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution:

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;






Originally posted by Honor93
2. the Feds are doing everything they can to avoid enforcing ALL immigration laws.
the Supreme Fed/Mr Obama has single-handedly bypassed several immigration laws, but that isn't worth discussing, is it ?


Which laws? Can you name any laws Obama has "single-handedly" bypassed?




Originally posted by Honor93

you want Constitutional standing ?? see the 2nd amendment.


The right to keep and bear arms? I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. Unless you support states passing unconstitutional legislation and wish to see the 2nd amendment revoked in some states?



Originally posted by Honor93
why consider those logistics when the relative opposite could apply?
Monsanto, toxic soils, 11 million as fresh fertilizer, it's an option, like any other.


Ok I'm having a really hard time understanding this one.

Are you suggesting that the Monsanto corporation should kill 11 million people and turn them into fertilizer?


Wow.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



1. the heart of the AZ law was upheld unanimously, isn't that a shame?


You and Jan Brewer and Fox News can keep saying this all you want...but it is a joke.

The part of the bill that was upheld was done so because it is current practice in every State across the nation.

Here...Scalia even says so in his opinion:


And on its face, §2(B)merely tells state officials that they are authorized to do something that they were, by the Government’s concession, already authorized to do.


So if you want to claim that the "heart" of the AZ bill was something that was already being practiced...more power to you.



2. the Feds are doing everything they can to avoid enforcing ALL immigration laws.
the Supreme Fed/Mr Obama has single-handedly bypassed several immigration laws, but that isn't worth discussing, is it ?


Policy to set enforcement priority is an important aspect in any law enforcement agency.

Otherwise we would have police officers spending just as much time enforcing jaywalking laws as they do on murder cases.


you want Constitutional standing ?? see the 2nd amendment.


And what does the 2nd amendment have to do with immigration???


Monsanto, toxic soils, 11 million as fresh fertilizer, it's an option, like any other.


Oh, that's right...you try to pretend to be an internet tough guy and advocate murder.

Yes..you are so cool and hard core...look at all of our shocked faces



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Nucleardiver
 


SCOTUS is just as acceptable as USSC is. In the past it was United States Supreme Court but now everything is done under 'Supreme Court of the United States.' So you're right, but you shouldn't argue that it's not 'really' called SCOTUS because it is really called SCOTUS. You should get over your pet peeve because, overall, it's meaningless.

Example 1
In relation to the topic at hand Arizona v. United States

As for Scalia's dissenting opinion...that's all it is, an opinion. Every major case has a dissenting opinion and if you dig deep enough I'm sure you'll find similiar language in many, many other dissenting opinion pieces.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 
first i made no such claim.
you asked for proof that between administrations (Bush vs Obama), illegal crossings have increased ... i did.

i'm not debating sources, you asked, i provided.

2005 ?? yes, who was POTUS then ?? and on his second term ??
2010 ?? whose term is that ??


backup your fictional claim that the only reason deportations are increased under Obama is because border crossings are also up.
also, i never said such, i suggested there is a correlation.
you have yet to dispute that there isn't.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 

Under the Constitution the Federal Government is given the power to regulate immigration.
actually, that is completely wrong, unless you can provide a link stating otherwise.

the Constitution does not address immigration or provide for a Federal regulatory authority regarding it. Congress assumed such powers which inherently belong to the States.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Honor93
 


No because if you paid attention to any external quotes or links to any posts you would already know that border crossing is down 70% since 2005. What are you gonna do when there's no one left to blame but our elected and appointed idiots? Who are you gonna hate on, better yet who are the idiots going to tell to you hate? Blondes, brunettes, blue eyed people?

When are you going to grow up and stop eating the crap you are being fed and realize that all our problems that we face as citizens of this nation go far beyond political footballs that keep us yapping and biting each other's heads off. Illegal immigration is indeed a problem. Is it our biggest one? Not even close.

The Republicans exaggerate the seriousness and give a target for anger all the while not really doing much or doing things they know are too much and blaming Democrats for being too soft. Democrats cry how it's so wrong for Republicans to treat them they way they do, meanwhile they don't really do a damn thing either...the Dems throw them an oar completely ignoring the fact they need a boat. It's just as applicable to any legal citizens with entitlement programs...so much willful idiocy, no real solutions because how things are in this country is exactly how our government wants it to be.
any discussion of the estimates of "numbers" related to border crossings is purely subjective. [there are no such complete records, only estimates]
i dismiss any further discussion on imaginary topics.

estimates are just that and statistics are manipulated regularly.
it doesn't matter if the numbers are up or down since yesterday, there are still too many illegals all over this country, not just AZ.

If Obama weren't so busy abdicating his duties, this issue could have been resolved already.
ah, there it is ... since you have no argument, i must be a nazi ... yep, that's the ticket


your opinion of the "greatest problems" of this country and mine may differ but if you don't agree, fine, don't. no one is saying you should but your slanted opinion doesn't diminish mine, one bit.

right / left, R / D, waaaah, waaaaah, seeeee saw ... aren't you dizzy yet ?



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 
so, since he is clearly usurping the "established rules of naturalization", how then is he also "enforcing" those same rules ??

also, Article 1 Section 8 applies to Congress, not POTUS.
he didn't even consult Congress.

here's the public declaration/definition from the Senate regarding this Section, not mine.

www.senate.gov...
Acts of Congress define the requirements by which immigrants can become citizens. Only the federal government, not the states, can determine who becomes a citizen.

NO WHERE does it grant powers to Congress to regulate ILLEGAL immigrants, but nice try.


Which laws? Can you name any laws Obama has "single-handedly" bypassed?
nope, not playing this game and i have more important things to do.
and no, i wasn't insinuating such but since it went over your head, just wave goodbye.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



you asked for proof that between administrations (Bush vs Obama), illegal crossings have increased ... i did.




You did not...the two articles you linked aren't even talking about the same things.



also, i never said such, i suggested there is a correlation.
you have yet to dispute that there isn't.


It's not my job to prove every crazy correlation you make up in your head is false...it is up to you to prove that it is correct.

You have failed to do so...spectacularly...just give it up.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



any discussion of the estimates of "numbers" related to border crossings is purely subjective. [there are no such complete records, only estimates]
i dismiss any further discussion on imaginary topics.




You are the one that brought up the fictional numbers.



This is too much.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

So if you want to claim that the "heart" of the AZ bill was something that was already being practiced...more power to you
i never said it was but i do remember an awful lot of govt supporters claiming it was in violation of the 4th Amendment or are you casually forgetting those discussions ??

and, if i remember correctly, they were not being enforced out of fear regarding potential claims of profiling.

Niether POTUS or Congress are "law enforcement agencies".
however, the 2nd amendment does re-inforce the citizens right to exercise our duty to protect this country from all invaders/aggressors, foreign or domestic.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 
what "fictional numbers" ???
i believe you mentioned 11 million, first.
i stated it was a false statistic as there are no factual or complete records of such.



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