Elliot lake, Ontario Mall Collapse- Survivors trapped, Rescue Abandoned

reply to post by iWantToBeelieve


Thank you.

I'm glad you understand. Americans do get bashed on here an awful lot at times and despite what I said, I often come to the defense of my brothers and sisters to the south. In the end, we really aren't that much different. Our cultures are almost identical, and while we Canadians can be a bit more subdued, we are still a very proud lot.

*shakes your hand*

Originally posted by aorAki
How would you gung-ho wannabe heroes feel if , during your uneducated and emotionally-driven attempts to rescue people you actually caused more harm than good and people died because of the results of your actions?

And isn't this exactly the point?

During the rescue attempts, concerns were raised that another collapse would cause more loss of life and engineers were called in to assess the situation. Now that they have, the rescue is back on.

All the armchair heroes here would have gone in gung-ho and probably brought down the rest of the mall, effectively killing anyone left and possibly themselves.

So easy to sit at home on your computer and criticize, isn't it?

Originally posted by aorAki
How would you gung-ho wannabe heroes feel if , during your uneducated and emotionally-driven attempts to rescue people you actually caused more harm than good and people died because of the results of your actions?

How would you feel if it was one of your loved ones under the rubble?

Are people so brainwashed that you can't do a damn thing without government say so?

One of my good friends was caught under the rubble of the CTV building collapse here in Christchurch so I know how it feels to want to go in but to not be allowed.
I am also confident that in that case they made the right decision, as I am confident they made the right decision in the Pike River Mine.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by aorAki
How would you gung-ho wannabe heroes feel if , during your uneducated and emotionally-driven attempts to rescue people you actually caused more harm than good and people died because of the results of your actions?

How would you feel if it was one of your loved ones under the rubble?

Are people so brainwashed that you can't do a damn thing without government say so?

Read my post just above yours to understand how incredibly stupid and naive your comment is.

Ps. And honestly, aorAki explained it with much more patience and thought than im able to put out right now.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by aorAki
How would you gung-ho wannabe heroes feel if , during your uneducated and emotionally-driven attempts to rescue people you actually caused more harm than good and people died because of the results of your actions?

How would you feel if it was one of your loved ones under the rubble?

Are people so brainwashed that you can't do a damn thing without government say so?

Read my post just above your to understand how incredible stupid and naive your comment is.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
This entire mess is the result of politics pure and simple.

The Ministry of Labour was the one who called off the rescue attempts last night. There was an international rescue team (big player during the Haiti earthquake) at the scene last night, they were told to leave.

Was listening to the radio driving home today, the president of that company was being interviewed...he said this is the first time that he was told he couldn't go in. He stated they have dealt with this before and they were confident in their abilities.


But here is the biggest kicker, and what pisses me off to no end. During 9/11 citizens helped get people out, in Japan even the elderly risked their lives to help out. Here in Canada, NO - WE THE GOVERNMENT will tell you if you can help. Bloody #ing pisses me off that some government dick can tell us what we can and can not do to help out our fellow man. f it was one of my relatives under the rubble, you can be damn sure I would be trying to get them out, regardless of what someone else said.

People are dieing because of politics, I AM COMPLETELY DISGUSTED.


edit:

Whoever stated the rescue crews didn't want to go in doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, the people of Elliot Lake had to storm the city hall to get the rescue operation started up again.

edit on 26-6-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Yes, please read before commenting....perhaps get some facts first?

Deleted...

reply to post by MidnightTide


We had international rescue teams here in Christchurch and they didn't just rush in gung-ho like Charley Horse and his band of amateurs. Yes, initially there were people jumping on the rubble and pulling it off, but once it was explained to them that they may be contributing to the deaths of others, they stopped quick smart.

reply to post by Mister1k

Originally posted by Mister1k

When you think of it, really, Calling off the rescue makes no sense whatsoever!!!!!!! What are they waiting for??? To get safer???????? Are you kidding me???

Waiting for it to get safer? Well as a matter of fact, yes, that is exactly what they were doing. A bunch of idiots climbing blindly atop an unstable pile of rubble could very well have only gotten more people trapped.





Think about it:
[color=78FF63]If I was trapped underneath an extremely unstable pile of metal, concrete, wood, and whatever else, I would rather wait. I would want others to take their time, and assess the entire situation in an intelligent manner.

The last thing I would want, would be for a bunch of idiots like most of you, crawling around on those loose materials above my head, causing that unstable mess to come down even more, crushing me.



From Yesterday:

[color=FFF4BF]A shifting beam is hampering efforts by rescuers to reach a survivor of a mall roof collapse in the northern Ontario town of Elliot Lake, which has left one person dead and at least 30 people unaccounted for, provincial police say.

"[color=FFF4BF]The beam that had the escalator [near the cave-in] is now shifting and we've had to remove our crews," said Bill Needles, incident commander for the Heavy Urban Search and Rescue Team that came up from Toronto to help.

[color=FFF4BF]"It's still very unstable and very unsafe," said Needles........

news.ca.msn.com...

Emergency officials working on rescuing people trapped in a collapsed mall in Elliott Lake have [color=FFF4BF]recruited a Toronto construction firm and its heavy machinery to assist in their mission.

[color=FFF4BF]A large specialized crane and a small fleet of heavy equipment from Priestly Demolition Inc. are en route to the small northern Ontario town, where rescue efforts have continued after Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty insisted officials take on extreme measures.

www.globalnews.ca...

Heavy equipment?
or some of you idiots climbing around?

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Yes, please read before commenting....perhaps get some facts first?

And where is the information showing this is true? Because as another poster has listed, the reason it was called off was due to concerns of further collapse, ensuring the death of those trapped and perhaps the rescue crews.

Seems pretty irresponsible to let civilians with no knowledge of engineering or architecture run rampant, desperately trying to save people, quite possibly all the while doing more damage than good.

Im glad you think your smarter than these people though.

reply to post by MidnightTide


the people of Elliot Lake had to storm the city hall to get the rescue operation started up again.

besides that Rescue TEAMS,, didnt go all that way for nothing,,

be safe alert and pray deeply

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Your job is to rescue people.

If you don't want to risk your life rescuing people then find another freakin job.

If you don't want to be a soldier and put your life on the line in battle then you don't join the army.

That is like asking the gator catcher to go get the gator...And he decides it's too dangerous...

Well then get a new occupation.

I bet if the Rescuer's KNEW the people inside they would never have left. If it was their mother , father, brother,ect..... they would still be their.

" Hey chef we need new york strips ASAP " ......" I'm not doing it, I could get burned"

If you don't want to half crap lungs and risk possible mine collaps then you don't become a miner.

I don't understand how these people can actually be a rescuer ....THAT IS YOUR ONLY JOB....and then argue how it's not safe.

Of course it's not safe.....That is why they called you in !!!!

Frickin coward idiots.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85


Frickin coward idiots.

Oh my.
I'll think I'll leave it at that, I don't want to risk a ban for saying [redacted]

Originally posted by aorAki
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

We had international rescue teams here in Christchurch and they didn't just rush in gung-ho like Charley Horse and his band of amateurs. Yes, initially there were people jumping on the rubble and pulling it off, but once it was explained to them that they may be contributing to the deaths of others, they stopped quick smart.

I don't remember the name of the rescue team (as I said, listened to it on the radio), they weren't about to rush in, they took in the situation, had the proper equipment and wanted to start making a plan of action. The government told them to stop, nothing was happening. Zip, zero. As it is now, the government is going to use that equipment from that rescue team, they are having them train their people on how to use it. Does that sound right to you?

The rescue team is a well known company who rushed to the scene to help out but was denied.

Originally posted by nightbringr
Except our country is actually quite a bit larger than the USA.

3,855,103 sq miles (9,984,670 km²)
Canada

3,794,100 sq miles (9,826,675 km²)
United States of America

your right, thas extra 1.5% of area is "quite a bit" larger...


doesn't matter what side of the border you are on... each side will have people willing to risk their lives for others, each side has corrupt police trying to control the people, and each side has corrupt politicians that could care less about the people they are supposed to be representing. 2/3 of the groups I mentioned seem to care more about keeping their job as opposed to actually doing their job

for shame...

Sad...Our world has come to this...We can't even save people anymore because of risk factors.

MAN UP AND GET SH*T DONE!

-SAP-

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Yes, please read before commenting....perhaps get some facts first?

And where is the information showing this is true? Because as another poster has listed, the reason it was called off was due to concerns of further collapse, ensuring the death of those trapped and perhaps the rescue crews.

Seems pretty irresponsible to let civilians with no knowledge of engineering or architecture run rampant, desperately trying to save people, quite possibly all the while doing more damage than good.

Im glad you think your smarter than these people though.

Did you read that more then likely all those under the rubble are all dead? Yesterday, we know someone was still alive. Yesterday, there were professional rescue crews willing to go in, but weren't allowed. Perhaps the dick who canceled the rescue attempts yesterday should go to the families of ones who died and tell them why no one tried to save them, WHEN PROSFESSIONALS wanted to go in.

As to your civies comment, at least some people wanted to try and save lives. IF and POSSIBLE negative consequences be damned......at least someone was willing to try and save a life. Under your train of thought, if you come across someone needing help - better called authorities, don't get involved....your not a trained professional.

Sorry, I don't want to live in a rigid, controlled and uncaring world like that.

reply to post by mrballistic



You are aware of the numbers of canadian volunteers that put their lives on the line to pull your asses out of the rubble right? Oh no that's right, you are american. Lack of education and you act before you think. 24 canadian deaths on that day unrelated to the impact, that's right they came down to your country scaled your death trap to try to save your people. Shake your #ing head man. Not to mention, over 33,000 Americans whose flights were diverted to canada. Yeah, we just fed them, kept them warm and gave them a place to stay. No biggy, but were a bunch of pansy ass wussies. Don't forget where the border is, and that were the only country to ever invade the US and burn down your white house.


Cheers, you insensitive dolt.

reply to post by kalisdad


Just wait until winter...our land mass doubles.

reply to post by MidnightTide


ok,,time too get some comments,, from Cape Breton here ,, buddy of mine was in Elliot lake and knows the Mall,,
Elliot Lake i havent too since 80's??,,so i dont know,,
but he said ,ya he wasnt surprised when he heard.
so i will leave it at that,, he was there maybe 5-10 years ago,,so dont know if he was just bull-#ting,,
When they pull your TEAMS apart,, not good,,
besides your equipment is YOUR EQUIPMENT,,like going too a hockey game ,,AND TRADING EQUIPMENT???


just wrong