Elliot lake, Ontario Mall Collapse- Survivors trapped, Rescue Abandoned

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
And this is where people want to move to because the USA is so messed up?

I'll take a once in a lifetime roof collapse over the USA any day.

The million dollar question is: Is it worth it to risk more lives to save 30 (possibly dead) people? It's a tough choice. Someone's got to make the decision and it seems they have. I don't blame the ground crew digging through the rubble .. it's got to be a higher up decision. All of you blaming the front line on this situation need to realize that.

reply to post by Ryanssuperman


Each individual on the front-line can make that decision for themselves. However, no official should call it off nor should it officially be called off. Totally understandable for any or everyone involved to chose not to risk it, for what ever reason. That should not close the doors on outsiders giving it a try, or engineers working on something, or airdropping water in, or etc.

What about Chili? They had to bring in engineers from all over to draft up plans for an alternative tunnel, and then construction workers worked in shifts 24/7 non-stop in record time to get to the miners that most thought were dead. It was a miracle they all survived. Imagine if they deemed it "too dangerous" and shut down shop without considering any alternative?

In 1790, in the throat of a violent storm, as thunder rent the skies, an alarm was raised. A boat was lost at sea, its back broken by the raging, crashing waves.

Ten men, dressed only in oilcloth and wool to ward off the water and cold pushed a small, 28 foot long rowing boat out into the raging sea. With waves taller than a man, and near zero visibility, those men, 5 men aside pulled valliantly on oars. There could be no turning back, for, somewhere ahead of them, was someone who needed their help.

Their boat could easily meet with the same fate as the other, broken in two by a wave. At any time, any one of them could be swept out of the boat. It didn't matter. All that mattered was that their help was needed.

Their efforts were not to be in vain, for history recorded that on that night, those men returned to port, carrying with them, two men they had rescued from a shipwreck during a violent storm. Sadly, history also records that on other nights, they were not so fortunate, often losing men of their own. But it did not deter them from trying.

I am torn, I can understand how a rescuer does not wish to become a statistic himself, however, how is it that in modern times, with all the safety equipment, all the scientific and engineering knowlege we now posess, that people of old were more willing to risk their own lives, to try and save the lives of others?

Elliot Lake mall rescue resumes, 19 hours after search was halted

ELLIOT LAKE, Ont. — Rescue operations to find locate what could be 12 people trapped under a collapsed mall in northeastern Ontario have resumed, the province said Tuesday.

Twelve people are still missing after the collapse, officials said at a Tuesday afternoon press conference. There have been no recent signs of life.

Provincial officials have deployed more resources for the rescue effort at Algo Centre Mall in Elliot Lake, including a large specialized crane, robots used for mine rescue operations, and a civil and mining engineer.

The province also plans to work with the Canadian Forces, although troops have not been deployed yet.


National Post Graphics
CLICK TO ENLARGE
At least 30 volunteers, many of whom are former miners, said they are willing to go inside the collapsed shopping centre after the Heavy Urban Search and Rescue unit from Toronto said on Monday they had to call off the search over safety issues.

All is not lost it seems.



news.nationalpost.com...

So how many of you in this thread are buying plane tickets to fly over there and start digging through that rubble?

reply to post by Ryanssuperman
So be it. But few who spout off this way would take this course. That's my problem with it.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

I want to you all to know that someone is there now, alone, in the dark tonight in Elliot lake under rubble fighting to stay alive. He there now as you site in your nice home and they quit on him.

I have just one lil question for you, Corporal High 'N Mighty:
How much rubble at the Elliot Lake Mall have you dug through since yesterday?

Originally posted by mrballistic
American firefighters and first responders would still go on and get these poor people out.. Even good

samaritans, even the family of the lost, hell I would be in their if it was my family no matter what!

Shame on this wussy government, and there pansy stance and weakness

What a shallow, unnecissary, inflammatory answer. Kind of makes me sad you got so many stars. Do our American neighbours to the south really hate us that much? As a poster on the first page mentioned, yes, Americans can and have called off rescues before as well. Obviously your just here to insult us.

Might i ask what it is that you despise about Canada?

Horrible situation. Hopefully the survivors don't know they're being given up on. They must know though if one is tapping. Then they will cease to hear the rescuers.

If the site is unstable, then they have no choice to abandon the rescue. Seems very unfair, but if they attempt to move one piece, that could shift other debris to fall down on the workers or other survivors.
Firefighters make these decisions every day. Blaming it on Canada is unwarranted.

So with all our technology and building equipment they didn't start taking that place apart to get to those people??
Unbelievable!

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Where are all the heroes? I am sure if one showed up he would be arrested trying to dig out one of his breathing, dying family member.

If I had a loved one in there, I can guarantee the police could not keep me out, and if push came to shove, I think I have more friends than the police do. We would rescue my loved one or die trying. No doubt about it. Of course we would take every possible precaution, try to shore things up as we go, try to limit exposure to the most dangerous areas, and try to run air and water to places where survivors might be trapped, but we wouldn't just stand outside with our hands in our pockets. No way.

You have got to be kidding me!! I would go in there even though I don't have Fire Rescue training!

Originally posted by mrballistic
Shame on this wussy government, and there pansy stance and weakness

After careful consideration, this line makes me laugh.

Your an American, look in the mirror if you want to see a wussy government. Obama indeed! Have fun with your socialism, declining world image, and massive debt and corruption. China should be overtaking you as world power within a decade or two.

And id i do remember correctly, your governments response to Hurricane Katrina was shameful at best.

My whole life I used to wonder why I never hear anything about Canada. I used to find it quite odd that I never saw anything on the news or even hear anything about Canada from other people. Considering that country is the same size as the USA, it made no sense to me. It feels like it might as well be the same size and importance of a 5 square mile city in the us.

Now I know why, Canadians seem like a bunch of 12 yr old scared girls cowering under a table. Seriously though, when is the last time Canada has been on the news or been talked about. I know nothing about their government, policies, or anything about Canada. However I'm sure that every Canadian knows all their is to know about America. Why is that? Is Canada and or Canadians really that small of a significance in the world. It's as if Canada is just a land mass above the USA that is baren and has no one that exists their, WTF??!

Now after I see this story it makes me understand why, they are people with no courage, or ambition living on the fringes of the modern world cowering in fear. Canada? I never hear anything about Canada, LOL. Poor people. Seriously WTF is Canada and what do they do on that huge land mEass that no one hears about or talks about. It has as much importance in the world as a small football sized island in the pacific.

Wow the trolls certainly hopped on this one pretty quick. A terrible situation, resulting in death and injury, and some people manage to turn it into a pissing contest, reminds me of the WW3 forum.

Originally posted by mrballistic
American firefighters and first responders would still go on and get these poor people out.. Even good

samaritans, even the family of the lost, hell I would be in their if it was my family no matter what!

Shame on this wussy government, and there pansy stance and weakness

Grow up and try to contribute a little bit more next time buddy.

They are now waiting for a large crane and some mining robots from Sudbury. As they wait the person is sure to die. It is quite possible the rescue crew could of killed her by accident. Either way it seems as they are waiting for her to die so they can demolish the walls.

A bus load of police officers were called in to Elliot lake from Toronto. When asked why they were here they were told it was to help move rubble. Bullshiite. They are afraid that the residents of Elliot lake will plow through the police barricade.

Sign me up, give me a shovel. It's a real simple decision.

dble post

reply to post by omegafire


Canadians and Americans are alike. They both would run into a burning building to save a stranger. But the police will not let anyone near the building.

Whats a hero to do? This is a human problem.

They should of got the trained, experienced earthquake recovery team from California but the Sudbury Mine Rescue is one those fearless bunch who would put their lives on the line. Lets hope they are let in.

One thing that bothers me is I hear no mention of someone trying to drill a hole, or speaking to the survivor trapped, or trying to give her water... Nothing.