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Elliot lake, Ontario Mall Collapse- Survivors trapped, Rescue Abandoned

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posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by mrballistic
American firefighters and first responders would still go on and get these poor people out.. Even good

samaritans, even the family of the lost, hell I would be in their if it was my family no matter what!

Shame on this wussy government, and there pansy stance and weakness



While this is absolutely terrible and I send my regards to the families involved, I do need to respond to this.

You say American Firefighters. Well I am volunteer Firefighter and what many people don't know is that about 85% of fire rescue services in America are volunteer. As in NO PAY.

While I can't speak for the 15% paid depts. I can say that most volunteer fire fighters with families at home WOULD NOT go in that disaster. And would not without orders from command; who would not send men in if the risk of losing more lives was to great.

Same for EMTs and other first resonders. What good are they if they go in and become patients themselves?

Yes, its sad that people are dieing in there, but they gov over there does not need to risk even more lives.

I agree with the decisions.




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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All I can really say is wow....

Never would of thought rescuers would give up knowing someone is alive in there.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by mrballistic
American firefighters and first responders would still go on and get these poor people out.. Even good

samaritans, even the family of the lost, hell I would be in their if it was my family no matter what!


no they wouldn't, and they don't.


Sure did on 9/11.. Sure they do everday going into burning collapsing buildings
to pull out an old lady/man kid, and anyone else who might be stuck...

Just because some people are pansies don't mean they are all
and just because you wouldn't go in doesn't mean i wouldn't



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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This reflects extremely poorly on all Canadians. I lived in Northern Ontario for 10 years, and I can tell you that calling off a search is absolutely the last thing that most first responders from the area would want to do. The mining culture and the miners code runs deep through them, and some of the most skilled mine rescue teams in the world call the area home.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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Soldiers could do if they were there.Danger is a nominal risk of the occupation.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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hate to see things like this happen.....if it really is super dangerous, everyone will end up dead anyway and that will not be good...



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Needless personal commentary removed - alien

There was supposedly a 4-5 yo girl in the rubble and sobbing and crying heard by witnesses.

In my jurisdiction, firefighters and first responders get paid very well. They get paid 100k per year to sit around and wait for these types of emergencies to occur. We expect them to rescue those in their time of need. They get rewarded handsomely for it too.

So next we can expect firemen to refuse to go into a burning house to save a family? Better cut their salaries then.

It's embarassing as a Canadian to have this happen. People in third world countries will scour rubble to find their loved ones. To SAVE them. Heck we even send relief troops, army corps, and engineers to third world places to help but refuse our own? This reeks of bureacracy and politics, Maybe 'GAUL' you are a lawyer though. Maybe you only think of the liabilities and bottom dollar.

Heroes don't think that way though.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Goldcurrent because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-6-2012 by alien because: ...editted replied...



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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Wow, you can really tell who are the armchair quarterbacks around here. You can all pick up your remotes again, the government of Ontario has ordered the search to continue.

And yes, a quick google search shows many instances of searches being called off for different reasons, including unstable buildings. Remember the Costa Concordia? Yeah, search for survivors called off because the vessel was shifting.

Get a grip, folks.

The blame should fall on the owners of the building. It's been leaking for years so badly that the stores inside regularly had to put buckets out to catch the water. Cutting corners on maintenance is not a good idea. Then the owner has the gall to try and get a court order to force rescuers into the unsafe structure. Absolutely ridiculous. He's only thinking about his own liability. The victims will sue the pants off this clown and he should go to jail as far as I'm concerned.


edit on 26-6-2012 by TheComte because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by mrballistic
 


Why don't you go and help then?

Don't sit behind a computer and complain. DO SOMETHING!



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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I am sure that if they called the rescue, its to try to find a way to continue without bringing the rest of the rubble down on the trapped people.....or the rescuers.....
................Heroes are just people who do what they have to do even though they are scared #less.....in which case we are all heroes......
Canadians Americans, we are pretty much the same mind when it comes to rescuing the hurt and trapped suvivors of any disaster....
We can only pray for everyone of them............and hope they figure out how to get to them in time....



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by CB328
If they say it's dangerous I'm sure it is. Why risk more lives needlessly?


To save a life.
edit on 6/26/2012 by staple because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by CB328
If they say it's dangerous I'm sure it is. Why risk more lives needlessly?


Thats why they should allow volunteers who full know the dangers involved..then they cant be held liable.

To risk ones life in the action of saving another is a most honorable and selfless act.

I would gladly die so that another may live, especially if that whom lives is a child. i would not hesitate.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Kastogere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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gutless scum. you don't stop until all people are accounted for. the building collapsed already.

it's not going to re-collapse.

i guess it's left of the new contractors to collect any remains.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by stirling
 



Later, Pine joined a group of about 100 residents at the parking lot beside the mall, where Michael Croke, a 65-year-old former mine worker, assembled a makeshift rescue crew.

“I’m 65 years old,” he said. “I’ll sign a waiver saying I’ll do whatever.”

Elliot Lake is surrounded by decommissioned uranium mines and got its start during a boom period in the 1950s. Many residents have worked in mines, including as rescuers.

Croke took names of individuals interested in signing up for the team. By the end, more than 20 had done so, but a heavy police presence still around the mall may deter their efforts.


www.thestar.com...

It's not that it isn't being thought about.

The professionals are back at it, though.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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Once there was a trailer in a run down area catch fire. The neighbors stood around as the entire thing was engulfed in flames afraid and not knowing what to do. They told one of the fire fighters that there was a baby in there. He said not a word, just went right into that burning trailer and saved the baby. The parents were already dead since the fire started in their room and they didn't make it out. He came out of the trailer holding the baby.

That baby was my best friend.

The fire fighter suffered with lung problems for the rest of his life. She honors him each year by visiting or sending a card.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by randomname
 


Before calling people names, you should probably have all the facts. Only part of the mall collapsed and the rescuers are worried that shifting rubble will cause the entire mall roof to collapse. They have brought in engineers to see how they can shift rubble without causing the whole building to come down.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by mrballistic

Sure did on 9/11.. Sure they do everday going into burning collapsing buildings
to pull out an old lady/man kid, and anyone else who might be stuck...

Just because some people are pansies don't mean they are all
and just because you wouldn't go in doesn't mean i wouldn't


And after 9/11 they were pulled off the pile repeatedly because it was shifting and settling. They DO stop rescues because of more danger to the rescuers, but usually they find a way to stabilize things, and go back in. Just because they pulled out of this one, and probably will again, doesn't mean they're giving up completely. Just trying to find a better way to go about it.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by Shadow Herder
 


This actually makes me really sick, and incredibly angry!

Real rescue teams do this kind of job knowing the risks, they are heroes because they ignore the risks to their own safety and act with the desire to help someone else.

Were all of these "rescuers" neutered when they signed their contracts?

These people are not heroes, they can barely be called rescuers. If I was there I would be calling for the firing of all these people and then replace the state-controlled "pussy squad" with real men, real volunteers, real people who genuinely act to save others without requiring a pay check.

This has made me really angry. All of those people should be fired right now, and a team of men who want to volunteer should be permitted to go ahead.

Can you imagine if this had been the attitude after 9/11? Are they really suggesting that this site is more dangerous than that was?

Absolutely pathetic excuses for "rescuers". They should be utterly shamed



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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A healthy human can go three weeks without food,

But only three days without water....

After three days a search endangering rescuers lives would be irresponsible.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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This is completely UNACCEPTABLE. I do hope heads roll for this! There is ALWAYS a work around. A rescue mission should never ever be called off. Never! Even if it has to be renamed, recovery mission.

The last (and only time I can remember) this happening was with the Russian sub. The Russians refused help offered from the U.S. and other countries.

Canada is better than this. This should spark an immediate intervention and people fired after all is over.



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