The possible nature of our existence

Firstly credit where it's due, after a long "logged in" absence from this site I felt obligated to post a response to this great thread by sirric, 10 Signs of Spiritual Awakening

I had an experience recently, I won't divulge what it was, that part isn't relevant, I will share what I observed/felt during the experience for people here to take from it, what they will. I won't say this is the gospel in anyway, shape or form, it was personal to me, but is shared for others to question and feel themselves.

Firstly, words cannot describe the universe...

Think about that for a moment. Words cannot really describe the massiveness, complexity, the why, the how or what of the universe. To extend that one step further, our rational minds need to have answers, it needs to know, it thirsts to understand these elements, to put into boxes with precise labels.

Language itself has lost some of its divine interpretation... I believe (but could be wrong) that it is impossible to truly translate some words/phrases/meaning into English, which itself is not much of a divine language, and is very much a literal/rational language. Extend this onto maths/algorithms/equations... this is but our rational mind having to make sense/label/put the workings of the universe into a box of understanding. Maths doesn't really do the mechanics of itself the visual/functional justice... as it's our limited way of understanding maths in order to put it into logical/rational order.

The best way I can sum the point above up is with the following short video from "A Beautiful Mind"



* Please note, my points above are aimed generically, I know not everyone sees maths in its handwritten form

To further my points, with the general idea in mind, the idea that the rational mind needs to make sense and order out of everything, that everything needs to be named, boxed and controlled I want to put this to you...

The universe, or the creative source of the universe is Chaos... but not chaos as we have been conditioned to believe it to be. Instead chaos is free moving, creative, flowing, ever changing, like the tides, river, oceans. Infinite possibilities, art, music, sound, colour, shapes, patterns and form... the creative source creates. It is different and separate from our 3D world, but connected all the same. Space, time, size have no purpose here... for it is the creative source.

In complete contrast, this world, our 3D experience is actually ORDER. We may believe we live in a chaotic world, but it isn't, chaos is simply a pre-conditioned belief system which is fundamentally wrong (possible conspiracy in itself that one). This world of limited sense and experiences is ORDER because, the rational mind wins. It is designed for the rational mind, for rational experience. Wherever we come from (soul/spirit/essence), is from a place where rational thought does not exist, things just are, without reasons, things flow, without question.

Yet in order to grow and expand our creative energies, we need to broaden those perspectives, and that is what our physical 3D experience is about in this world of ORDER. We cannot experience what this reality provides up beyond the veil of our perceived reality, therefore this is our training ground, it is our teacher, our lesson to learn from. It is ugly at times, but it is experience, and experience broadens our creative abilities.

So what is the point/purpose?

I can't answer that question, because the human mind cannot fathom or begin to understand the meaning behind it. And again, part of the problem itself is the human mind, trying to understand, trying to gain meaning. My new belief, as a result of my experience, is that a lot of religious concepts are a limited understanding of the universe/creative source translated into a form which "the mind can understand".

So how do I cope knowing this?

What was profound in my experience was that, experience is the reason I am here. To taste, to smell, to listen, to feel, to love (hopefully lol), to share, to see, to do... I am here for experience. Of course I have a level of input (rather than control) over the richness of my experience. The closer I get to experiencing the creative source, art, shape, sound, patterns, form etc - the better and richer my experiences become. Think about how an image/music/video may have brought you to tears, but it wasn't happy, or sad, you couldn't explain it, but it touched your soul (if you will). That right there, is allowing your experience to reflect and indulge in your true nature, without reason, just being. Those experiences enable you to be alive and to see the colour and beauty in the world.

Am I talking a load of BS?

Quite possibly, I have no way of knowing for sure whether my experience was real, or just some funky sub conscious neural activity... but it was mine none the less and I know how something changed within me as a result of the experience. To summarise, this human vessel can not ever fully learn or understand, or make sense of the universe in its entirety - because the very existence of our reality (beyond this 3D world) cannot be put into words.

So how does this relate to sirric's thread listed at the start?

My spiritual awakening, through my experience(s) has given me understanding that there is far more beyond this lifetime. I cannot prove it, nor do I need to, for my belief is mine alone, and is being shared here for others to take from it what they will. The richness of the chaos via the creative source was beautiful, and possibly the only time I had ever felt or experienced true unconditional love... and even that truth behind the meaning of that term cannot be expressed in words.

So with my understanding in place, my spiritual awakening is about guiding my experience to be alligned more with creativity. Whether it be in the gym, through music, work, gardening... pick a thing. Creativity, colour, sound, laughter is what will be my driving source. Not fear, anger, hate, sadness... indulging in those emotions, will bring experiences that reflect their states. How I interact and react to others will be different, again I will guide my experiences and interactions in the same way. Take what you will, leave what doesn't fit, and thanks for reading... apologies if I babble on... remember words can't do it justice

Beautiful thread

I have nothing interesting to add to this thread, but I just wanted to tell you that I love it. What a refreshing read! Thanks for sharing.

reply to post by SarahEleanor


Thanks Sarah (and comment above)

Your feedback is the reason I shared it, and pretty much when I came to that understanding based on the experience I had... words couldn't do it justice!

In fact even writing the thread was somewhat hard to actually put into words, but I hope the message came through

I believe Edgar Cayce spoke about the purpose of experiencing life in this world.

Something about how there were many souls at the beginning of time that left the All-Mighty to go out in the unknown universe. These souls wanted to experience different things and thus started taking up material forms and tried creating stuff just as the All-Mighty did. These souls cannot get back to the All-Mighty until they have experienced all that is possible, only when they have experienced everything will they know and understand whom they really are and be allowed back into the Kingdom of the All-Mighty.

He goes on in great detail about this and it is very interesting. I highly recommend you look him up. There are a great many books about him and his experiences.

I believe the book that I read was an Edgar Cayce book dealing with the Atlantis. Worth the read.

What you're trying to say is this:

www.youtube.com...

There is a documentary that I saw that opened my eyes. It's called "The Secret", it is on Netflix.

It pretty much says, what you think and feel you'll attach more into your life. Another thing worth checking out.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


I would say a large amount of the secret is misrepresented to a degree, and there has been a big falling out as a result of how people were treated during/after the production of the film.

BUT - there is a level of truth in it, as there is in everything

reply to post by moleskin


It is but the secret has worked for me. I was dirt broke and just thinking of cash and how i could help my family with it. Barely 2 months later I got a call saying I won a 10k sweepstakes, it was a sweepstakes that I had been randomly entered into for using my credit card during the 5-6 months of the sweepstakes. As I said before I was broke, and in the 5-6 months that the sweepstakes was going on, I did not know there was a sweepstakes for starters and I only used my credit card 3 times in that time period because it was near maxed and I only used it for emergencies.

The secret has continued to work for me. It's how you apply the secret that makes the difference. I watched it Dec of last year and since then my life is great and getting better each and everyday.

I had my girlfriend apply the secret to her job. She hated her job, her co-workers didn't know how to do the job or pawned everything on her. She was about to pop and snap some necks. I told her to apply the secret and look for another job and think of getting a better job. She was very unsure, because before this time, she had applied to at least 40-60 other jobs during the 2 years she had been at her current job, hoping to get out of the madness that she was stuck in. I pressured her to do it and apply the secret, after a while she finally did. Just by chance a friend of mine sent me a copy of his resume which had been professionally done, my girlfriend mirrored her resume in that format of his. She only applied for one job and she got it. But it didn't stop there, she went and gave her two week notice to her boss. The same time that occurred, the CFO and VP were discussing about giving her a promotion at a meeting across town at the same moment that she handed in her notice. Later that day the CFO of the company came in and offered her a promotion which he and VP had been discussing earlier that day. He did not know she gave her two week notice when he told her of his offer, but when he did he upped his offer to her. The CFO in all his 30 years has never offered a raise or promotion to anyone who'd given their 2 week notice. She ended up getting an insane raise, a new position, a title, and she moved out of the office that was driving her crazy.

She had been trying for 2 years to get out of that place. One more after telling her the secret and how to apply it she got everything she wanted a much more.

Things are continuing to flow in and life is getting amazing since watching that documentary. I can't speak for others, but so far it's been working for me and my family and my friends whom I told to watch it.

reply to post by moleskin


Thankyou Moleskin, S&F

That is one of the best threads I've read since joining this site.

You have stated what is at the heart of spiritual enlightenment :-

IT CAN NOT BE DESCRIBED USING WORDS !

Especially using the English language which is very dull in descriptive terminology.

Famous American psychologist - William James said of mystic experiences - "They are Ineffable – The experience defies expression. No adequate report of its contents can be given in words:

So thank you for reminding us that the only way you can find God/Nirvana/Heaven/Samadhi/Emptiness is through your own process and it's completely personal - it can't be explained to another.

I agree that the best way to get closer to the creator is being creative yourself. I just live for the moment when a new idea pops in to my head when I am working on something new and exciting. Doesn't have to be artistic in nature - can be just about anything you focus on if you are open to it.

Peace Out - Ned

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Good stuff man... like I said, there is some element of truth in that movie, and if you are using it to enrich your lives and the lives of those around you, more power to you. It's been a while since I have seen it, so maybe I should give it another view anyway!

reply to post by nimbinned


Thankyou nimbinned!

You got exactly the point I was trying to make... it cannot be explained, the irony is, our human mind (logical mind) wants to explain/understand/label and put it in the box...

How can you box something that cannot be explained? How can you label something that cannot be labelled? How can we discuss something, that quite simply, cannot be discussed using this physical reality?

The simple answer is, we cannot, and perhaps the more time we waste trying to understand the whole concept, the more time we are distracted from actually "experiencing" - which is the only reason we are here

reply to post by r2d246


Great vid... along the same lines, sort of, but like I said, really, it cannot be put into words or understood, unless experienced... but then the experience itself was not 3D and as such, cannot then be translated.

Which validates the video, until the 2D circle/sphere actually went 3D her fear/logical mind was unable/incapable of actually being able to see/understand/comprehend a world outside of her bubble.

Anyways, its late... I need some Zzzzz

reply to post by moleskin


I see what you are saying about the negative aspects of life... plenty of it appears in the Media on a daily basis... this in turn puts people in a bad mood which in turn creates a bad atmosphere for those around that person and if it passes onto one other person then that person in turn creates bad atmosphere around himself.... I'm not sure why but I think the Media which includes TV, Radio, Internet are in someway designed to keep pushing bad news into our thoughts so we stay angry, depressed, moody etc etc...

Have you ever wondered why there are adverts with big headlines in capitals saying stuff like 'IF YOU DIE TOMORROW.... IS YOUR FAMILY SAFE' or 'HEART ATTACKS HAPPEN... BE PREPARED' or just being kept in constant fear of your life....

or how about the constant charity adverts telling us people are sad and dying.... we need more money etc .....

Its a big lie.... whoever is running the show need to start putting positive stuff in the Media!!

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Your posts remind me a lot of the old classic book, The Magic of Believing by Claude Bristol and yes, it works.

reply to post by moleskin


Hey, nice thread. I would like to bring up a few things I found strange about what you wrote, not as criticisms but just as something to think about further.

So what is the point/purpose? I can't answer that question, because the human mind cannot fathom or begin to understand the meaning behind it.

Supposing it has purpose/meaning "behind it" at all. Good. I can't find any purpose for life beyond that which I, the mind, have projected on to it. Therefore, I cannot answer whether or not life existentially has any real purpose/meaning to it. Agreed.

So how do I cope knowing this? What was profound in my experience was that, experience is the reason I am here. To taste, to smell, to listen, to feel, to love (hopefully lol), to share, to see, to do... I am here for experience.

Wait... what? I thought we just stated that we could not definitively conclude what our intrinsic purpose/meaning for life is? Now we are saying "to experience" is the reason/purpose/meaning for our life. Is this a projection of our mind on to life (as a coping mechanism) or are we claiming this is the existential purpose/meaning for life? I feel you are describing this as a coping mechanism and not as an existential fact, but it is important to not confuse the two, which I will now explain why:

Coping mechanisms are okay, for a short period of time at least. They can temporarily offer a sense of comfort and security which will allow the fearful/uneasy mind to quiet down. Psychotropic drugs and belief systems are two of the most popular coping mechanisms in today's society, followed probably by illegal drugs and alcohol, and gossiping/entertainment. These things are used, originally, as tools to temporarily 'subdue' the mind. The obvious problem is, is that it does not 'fix' the issue at hand. However, these things are used by people as 'fixes', which creates dependency/addiction and thus further issues to deal with later on.

Belief systems are no different than drugs and alcohol in this regard. If people merely used them as a means to temporarily quiet the chaotic/fearful/uneasy mind, allowing them to once again see things in a clearer light where they can then let go of these self projected beliefs, belief systems would then be a great coping mechanism. Obviously, for many people, this isn't what happens though. Instead they structure their entire life and world-view around these belief systems and spend massive amounts of energy trying to protect and further verify them as true. They were never meant to be existentially true though. They were just coping mechanisms.

So, how does this apply to what you've said? Well, existentially speaking, as you've stated, no purpose/meaning for life can be found. This is what is true. If this makes you upset/scared/uneasy then you have every right to project a purpose/meaning for life on to life, as you've have done by claiming "to experience" is your purpose. Yet, this is not actually true, as we have just stated. So, then, one must now ask the ever so pertinent question of, what will it mean for us to falsely/insincerely place meaning on that which we can existentially find no meaning?

I'll leave it up to you to answer that question.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Thanks for your comments, and expanding my points, will try to answer quick as possible as in between work!

Supposing it has purpose/meaning "behind it" at all. Good. I can't find any purpose for life beyond that which I, the mind, have projected on to it. Therefore, I cannot answer whether or not life existentially has any real purpose/meaning to it. Agreed.

From your perspective, agreed, 100%, as I tried to communicate, I cannot explain the purpose in this human form based on what my experience was. And as I mentioned, my experience was unique to me and may or may not be true/correct/gospel. What I felt/believe as a result of my experience is that the purpose of this lifetime, in context to a greater purpose beyond this lifetime, is simply to experience... whether its good/bad/happy/sad, expeirence is experience.

So, how does this apply to what you've said? (ref to coping etc)

I probably should have better phrased that part, and apologies for not quoting the whole response from you. In essence, rather than coping, it's more an acceptance and an embracing of the experience. Is it a belief system? It is now, why, based on my experience, is it truth, it was for me, based on the experience. Can I validate that truth for others? Of course not.

Does that answer your question, most probably not. And again, I lead back to my points about the rational mind needing validation, needing proof, needing labels and boxes to put things into order. I can't offer that and purely cannot offer that based solely on the experience I had.

But I love the angle you are coming at none the less!

Like every other animal on this planet our purpose is to evolve. To learn to better adapt to our planet.

Originally posted by Lostmymarbles
I believe the book that I read was an Edgar Cayce book dealing with the Atlantis. Worth the read.

edit on 25-6-2012 by Lostmymarbles because: grammer

Was it this one?
www.amazon.com...

I saw that at my local library a few months ago and am considering borrowing it, even though it isn't actually written by Cayce (it's basically a stew of his Atlantis research compiled by his son.)

reply to post by Xaphan


Actually it was: Edgar Cayce, On the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I thought it was the other cause I just started reading his Atlantis one but it is not and that one you linked is not the one I have, but I might need to get it. I have "An Edgar Cayce Guide: Mysteries of Atlantis Revisited" and "Edgar Cayce Atlantis" they are okay so far.

Also I'd like to say that the "secret" continues to work. Just got bought a house for the price we (g/f and me) wanted which we wrote on a board that we see everyday. We got the house for over 15k off the asking price and it is exactly the house we had pictured and imagined. It has all the stuff my girlfriend wanted and I wanted. Got my goosebumps when it happened.

But its not exactly wanting stuff for yourself but also wanting to also help others and to be a good and decent human being. You have to also "try" to make the changes happen and put forth some effort, it is awkward at first and kinda foreign but wow once you get going and start motivating yourself, there are no limits to what you can achieve.

Because of applying these thoughts and such, I have also come closer to being at peace and going back to reading the good books. As well as thanking "God" for allowing me the opportunity to experience life.

It took me a while and I'm still learning as I go along but there is a lot of truth in it. And it feels good to be happy and to spread happiness whenever possible. Instead of getting mad at stuff I just laugh it off. Reminds me kinda of the story of Job, kinda...but hopefully you get my meaning.

I hope ya'll have happiness and that the "secret" works for you as well.