Why New Agers are "Spiritually Dead" and not "Enlightened"

reply to post by DocHolidaze


Right, and never, never ever, use the Bible as a coaster!

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by olaru12
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I also think the Bible said...

"Judge not lest ye be judged"

And the judgmental tone of this post; I don't think will lead anyone to salvation. To mean spirited imo.

As I said my post will offend... The Bible says some people override their consciences until they are callused and unaffected (1 Timothy 4:2)... Only Christ can give people what they need emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

We are not God and can never become enlightened by our own actions. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth.

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead

If you have extreme need and belive in devine harmonious ideals then god will answer not matter if you cry Jesus or not. You do not cry with your mind that have the ego and faith. Your cry will be of pure spirit and you cry for understanding and help and comfort and will recive it. Even a child without any knowledge/faith at all can do this. It is built into the sleeping spirit within you.

Faith and understanding is for the mind, but it is spirit over mind over body. Trust the spirit to guide the mind and keep the mind at bay because the spirit will only be heard if you let it guide your mind.

The death of ego and the rebirth och mind and spirit as one even if it is temporary can be seen as the first death. It changes people who go thru it forever. The second death is when you leave the body permenently. Religon and faith is of human nature but can be influenced by spirit. But to be sure it is from spirit and not ego/mind all Religon and faith should be questioned to be sure it is not of ego/mind.

Enjoy the ride soulbrothers and soulsisters. Namaste

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Actually, not all people are his children. That is a New Age fallacy leading towards ecumenism. If you're not a believer in him you are not one of his.

Actually, I believe he was talking to the "lost tribes of Israel", not to everyone on every continent. Are you of Israelite ancestry? If not, how do you know he was talking to you (and everyone on the face of the planet)?

I'm not intending to be rude, but I have yet to see where the crossover occurred ---- how Jesus, in speaking to the Jews and the lost tribes of Israel, then became the "savior" of all mankind. Can you explain this to me, please? I have not a drop of Jewish blood in me (that I know of).....so why is this person, whose message was to love one another (which I try to live by, btw)..... to be considered "my" savior?

My ancestors would have believed in different gods and goddesses-- like those the Druids, Celts, Nordics, and Germanics worshipped. As I am of mostly Germanic heritage, I'll provide a source for who they were:
List of Germanic Deities. Who, exactly, decided that these are not the gods of my ancestors after all?


Why is it that those are not held out as "my" deities?

A substantial amount of Christian nations are such because they were historically forced into submission by fear mongering controllers, and I might contest that part of history in disbelief if it wasn't so prevalent that the tradition still carries on.

If the Christian God and his son has no other means for teaching his children and feed such behavior in his followers then I for one opt to divorce myself of such a parent and any kingdom that he/she has to offer. What is, is obvious and needs no force to apply. It will become apparent only by looking. I do not believe this fear based spiritual control function is the original teaching (where ever it sprung from) but a corrupt form of a once noble understanding.

I personally hold no grief toward any belief that anyone chose to hold to, however should you come in force breaking my house down in order to convince me you will find me strong in my belief that what you do to my person may not affect my spirit.

Your label does not define who you are, you can call yourself anything, and call the names of so called saints, but what results from your accumulated contribution is ultimately what defines you.

In order to see clearly imo one must remove the veil of blind following and become the seeker that looks beyond false pretense and sociopolitical agenda. Only then will you see clearly what is and what is not. Maybe you will find that there are clear indications that falsities exist within all proclaimed faiths and non faiths and it is not in the name you call but in the spirit you invoke while doing so.

just thoughts
much love

*what ever your label for me that is your problem not mine. I Am as I am becoming.... that is all

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
This thread will offend some and anger others... I am not going to beat around the bush about these things.

People who are involved in the New Age cult often claim to be "spiritually awake" or "alive" but are they?

God tells us that our spirits are dead!

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. (NASB) Ephesians 2:1-3

The Holy Spirit describes unsaved people as having been dead men and women who were walking around. This is the walking dead. We are described as walking around in this world. We were disobedient and living as we pleased. We were alive in body, yet we were dead. Now how can that be? There is only one way - alive in body and dead in spirit. Dead men and women do not walk around!

When did our spirit die? It happened when Adam sinned back in Genesis. God had warned Adam that he would die. He had warned Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Our English translations miss a very important word in Genesis 2:17.

. . . . . . .but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die." (NASB) Genesis 2:17

God did not just say, "you shall surely die," the original Hebrew records God as saying, "you shall die die." God repeated the word "die" twice. This Hebrew root word MUT means "to be executed - to die." Was God merely adding emphasis when He used "die" twice or did He imply physical AND spiritual death?
What is the New Age Movement?

Today's so-called New Age movement is by no means "new," On the contrary, it is the culmination of ancient pagan pantheist mysticism.

If you are into "New Age ideas" and are reading this thread I ask you: Have you found what your looking for yet?

Jesus Christ is the most spiritual person in existence and the most spiritual person to have ever walked this earth. Many people are seeking spiritual fulfillment and are on many and varied paths. Are you connecting with the ultimate source of all fulfillment and spirituality or are you being short changed?

If you want to know the truth, true spirituality comes from Holy Spirit only... The 3rd person of the Holy Trinity.

The Holy Spirit ALWAYS comes to us in Jesus' name! ... Anytime you hear someone talking about spiritual matters, and the name of Jesus is not present, then they are deceived.

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." -Matthew 12:30

"He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." -Luke 11:23

"Once you've deified yourself [made yourself into a god,] which is what the New Age is all about, there is no higher moral absolute. It's a recipe for ethical anarchy.

SOURCE: Time Magazine, (December 7, 1987), pg. 72.

There are 2 things every New Ager needs to know...

1) There is a God.

2) You are not him.

Jesus' own words:

And the scribe said unto him, Well, Teacher, you have said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Mark 12:32

Truly spiritual people don’t view themselves as spiritual at all. If you want to be spiritual all you need is faith is Christ and then the Holy Spirit will dwell within you. When you do it the other way and try and become spiritual through your own account see this thread you will deceive yourself and play right into the devils hands.

edit on 25-6-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Why would you need to believe in Christ to be spirtual, is Christ not the same person as herrykrishna, and many more, santaclause included. The Christ conciousness is what we need to connect to. That's the good in all of us, the god in all of us.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Teacher, you have said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Mark 12:32, sounds like we are all one, if you don't take it literally.

I think this is what the religions should have been saying...

4 Laws of Creation
Number One: You exist. That means that you can never not exist. Because, the other side of that law is, there is no such thing as non-existence. Read the sentence, there is NO such thing as non-existence. Non-existence doesn't exist. The "Real" you, not your genetic space suit. This is the "Holy Spirit" to which everyone refers. It isn't some spirit that is separate from you, it is the REAL TRUE YOU. The still small voice, the conscience, the soul, the eternal spirit that experiences this reality and takes that experience back to the one.

Number Two: The One is The All, The All are The One.
Every, seemingly separate thing is made up out of The One, and The One knows itself as The One and as all the things it makes up. Meaning: you, me, the rock by your door, the ground below your feet, the star that shines in the sky. The god particle, god, the unified field, the solar system, the universe.

Why else would atoms follow the design of solar systems, or galaxies. As is above, so is below.

Number Three: What you put out is what you get back.
The Golden Rule.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Karma
Love everyone as you do yourself.

Number Four:
Everything changes except the first three laws. The only constant is change.
____________________
I'm sure we all heard these things before in one form or another. These are the only real laws to follow. Other then that, I feel as though this life is just an experience to take back to the one and so our soul can grow more mature until we can get to a point to oversee our own solar system, galaxy, universe, ect. Perhaps even create one. Some of the souls here on this planet are more Enlightened to the true meaning of existence then others. Judging others only judges yourself and shows how you truly are.

Try to live a week without judgment of other souls/humans. Try to understand what another is going through before offering advice. Too often we spit out answers (more like regurgitate) without really thinking. Was that judgement what you really believe and think, or something that you were spoon fed when you were very young?
_____________________
Look within for wisdom, not out, because you will be led astray where your soul will scream at you to change your ways, but will fall on deaf "ears". The soul is what is creating your life, and if you avoid lessons, and cause harm to others, you will be visited the same. If you skip out on the lessons that you yourself (your soul) wanted to learn and experience, the same types of situations will come back to you. Just look back at each of your lives and see if you can see the patterns, the cycles. If you skip the lesson a few times, it will be that much harder, until your soul will do something to literately shake up, and wake up, the physical you. Also, judgment is mostly the soul judging how you did with your lessons, in fact the hardest person that judges you, is yourself, Jesus or God could not judge you any harder.
Your soul is very creative, your mind, and brain are not. This is the trinity; the total you: Brain (tuner), Mind (software installed on the tuner-ego), Soul (the creator of your life).

My opinion, take it, reject it, leave it, I don't care what you think, because your beliefs are not my own.

reply to post by wildtimes

Hi Wildtimes, good to see you around the board. I know you didn't ask this question of me, and somehow I think you already know this, but I thought I'd fill in the blanks anyway.

Christians believe in, and are bound by the great commission. Therefore, Jesus is the savior of the world, not just the Jews or Israelites. The crossover then, is the command Jesus gave the disciples after his resurrection...

Matthew 28:19-20

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So, you're a heathen, just like me.

reply to post by Skada


Loving it!
Loving the second line also

reply to post by Klassified

Hi Wildtimes, good to see you around the board. I know you didn't ask this question of me, and somehow I think you already know this, but I thought I'd fill in the blanks anyway.

Christians believe in, and are bound by the great commission. Therefore, Jesus is the savior of the world, not just the Jews or Israelites. The crossover then, is the command Jesus gave the disciples after his resurrection.

Hey there, Klass, thanks for the welcome back.

I appreciate your answer, and yes, you are "on to me" as a "heathen".....
But...but....
did Jesus himself know about the whole world? Did he know about the indigenous peoples abroad? Did he know about all of their very complex deistic constructs? I believe he traveled to the East (and studied with Buddhists), and came from an Essene upbringing to begin with....but...how could he know about, say, Native Americans? Amazonian tribes? And who says "he said to do this" (after his "resurrection")?

reply to post by wildtimes

Actually, I believe he was talking to the "lost tribes of Israel", not to everyone on every continent. Are you of Israelite ancestry? If not, how do you know he was talking to you (and everyone on the face of the planet)?

The entire New Testament is spent showing how Jesus spread his message throughout the gentiles as well as the jews.

Here is a place to start, but there is much much more in the Bible relating to this.

Question: "Who are the people of God?"

www.gotquestions.org...

reply to post by Skada


Well said! I bow to your wisdom of words. You should make a You Tube of that, with some deep wise voice narrating, wispy New Age music in the background and cool pictures of nature, space, and monks meditating!

I'm serious!

reply to post by Deetermined

The entire New Testament is spent showing how Jesus spread his message throughout the gentiles as well as the jews.

Okay, but.....it wasn't until after his "resurrection" that he "said" to spread the message, right? I personally don't believe he died and resurrected. So....does that message still apply to me? (I believe he survived the crucifixion and was "spirited away" --- by his devotees, the Essenes --- to India [Kashmir, to be precise], and lived to a ripe old age amongst those who got what he was talking about.)

Modern "Christianity" is a far cry from what his actual "message" is REPORTED (long after his death) to be.

Make no mistake...I believe his message was basically The Golden Rule...and that has been my premise for existence since my very earliest memories. But as an adult with half a century under my belt, I just don't take the Bible as literal truth.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Well I can know that your not a Christian if you claim there is another mediator other than Jesus. The scriptures just proven you wrong yet you continue to argue? That is exactly what the pharisees did. And who says I am judging your heart? I am just letting you know what the scriptures say.

edit on 25-6-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

There is no other mediator than the Christ. The problem is, you don't know what the Christ is. You have a kindergarten, cartoonish conception of Christ.

You are a child on a diet of exoteric milk. Not esoteric solid food.

You have a kindergarten conception of God, a narrow one and a cartoonish conception of "New Age".

This happens all through history. Ignorant fundamentalist orthodox children with their exoteric milk think they can run around judging esoteric mystics with their solid food. It happened to Jesus back then and it happens to Christian mystics today.

edit on 25-6-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

My oh my. I'm glad you showed up. Exoteric milk vs our esoteric solid food...

OP, you condemn and judge because you do not understand; perhaps you are too afraid to understand, but most likely not ready to. The keys of knowledge are available to those who seek and keep seeking, through wisdom and simplicity. Those who have shown that their hearts and minds are ready will find the meanings and inner-workings of the "kingdom." Through love first and foremost, through knowing ourselves, through oneness, through integrity and will, we drink from the mouth of the living one.

People often fear and ridicule what they do not understand. The stones you cast however will only end up burning you, so I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself before you're covered in burns.

What is is. I understand BlueMule remark and I know we are supposed to move away from duality but is it wrong to tell a person that he should maybe go home and think instead of preaching only his views that are clearly filled with ego duality. If you are afraid of being judging or you actions can be seen as throwing stones should you do nothing in spite that you think the person is gonna harm himself on the ignorance.

If we cannot discuss the differance in ideals and views as inclusive or deviding (of ego and dualistic vs egoless and nodualistic) the you cannot make any arument at all really.

I pay for whatever karma I cause but if you go into this place to discuss your views and even pursade others they are right then you better be able to handle the questioning and scrutiny of it.

If we look at what RevelationGeneration is doing from the stone throwing perspective. He is telling me that I will go to hellfire because I do not 100% agree with his idea of how god works.

I have a hard time beliving he is right since I have my own spiritual experiances and can clearly say by gods actions that his views do not at all fit my experiances. So he can preach how ever much he wants and I will respond with that his views are egodriven and not at all inclusive.

I do not hate the indoctrinated person for not understanding he is indoctrinated. But I do dislike the indoctrination.

reply to post by windword


No thanks. I am no master. Society says I'm "smart". Only an IQ of somewhere between 139-142, whatever. I still have a lot more to learn, a lot to experience. A lot more connecting with my higher self. A lot more Realizing, and Be-Ing, as we all do. Find your inner truth, and no one can change it.

Oh, here is something that I have found out from this existence: Be very careful what you ask for, because you will get exactly what you ask for. If you ask for an attribute to be increased, such as patience, the universe will test you on that attribute causing you to gain more of it. I asked for patience, I got a child with an IQ of 119, aged 13, ADHD, and way too much energy and curiosity. My patience is tested daily!

So, instead of asking: I want to feel more love.
Answer from universe: Okay, I will give you the experience of wanting to feel more love.

Ask for: I will feel love; Money comes easily and frequently.

You don't have to know how it will happen, just know that it will. And fear is nothing but a belief that is out of alignment with your true self. A belief that you really don't believe in.

Dune's Litany against fear

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain."

There is wisdom within these words.

And something off topic: I turn a whopping 35 on Thursday. Well, chronologically speaking I will be 35. But, in honesty, you are only as old as you feel on any given day. Today I feel slightly less older then I did yesterday, which was 236, today perhaps only 92. Now, on my birthday, I think I will be 2 to maybe 7 at the most. We shall see.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Okay, but.....it wasn't until after his "resurrection" that he "said" to spread the message, right?

That is correct. He wanted witnesses to his death and resurrection to spread the message so that the people would be more apt to believe his message as to why He came in the first place. He told them exactly what was going to happen before it did. This was supposed to give Jesus more credibility to his disciples before they went out to spread the message.

I personally don't believe he died and resurrected. So....does that message still apply to me? (I believe he survived the crucifixion and was "spirited away" --- by his devotees, the Essenes --- to India [Kashmir, to be precise], and lived to a ripe old age amongst those who got what he was talking about.)

This is precisely why we have the New Testament and why it was incorporated with the Old Testament. The Old Testament prophesied about the coming of the prophet and Messiah and how they could recognize him, and then the New Testament goes on to tell all of the details. Unfortunately, the pagans who chose not to follow Jesus decided to come up with their own scenario as to what happened to Him.

reply to post by wildtimes

Did Jesus himself know about the whole world? Did he know about the indigenous peoples abroad? Did he know about all of their very complex deistic constructs? I believe he traveled to the East (and studied with Buddhists), and came from an Essene upbringing to begin with....but...how could he know about, say, Native Americans? Amazonian tribes?

It makes one wonder just how much traveling he did during the lost years, doesn't it?
Going from scripture, and the common knowledge of his time, Jesus could have been quite aware of many diverse cultures. At least enough to know the world was full of heathens, anyway. From the Christian perspective, whether he knew each belief system the world over is irrelevant. He was the way, the truth, and the life.

And who says "he said to do this" (after his "resurrection")?

Scripture does. Read the context around the verses I gave you. Jesus was sent to the Jews specifically because they were God's chosen, and because his covenant was with them. In order to form a new covenant with them, he first had to live and fulfill the letter of the first covenant, because it was perpetual and binding forever. So only through his death could he fulfill (satisfy) the requirements of the law(covenant) and become the embodiment of it through his once for all, atoning sacrifice.
The second covenant then, freed the Jews from the first covenant by proxy, and "grafted" in those who were not originally of the chosen people. This was God's will. That none should perish, but that ALL should come to the light. So only after his resurrection could ALL have eternal life "in him".

That's the nutshell from the Christian perspective, anywho.

reply to post by Klassified

The second covenant then, freed the Jews from the first covenant by proxy, and "grafted" in those who were not originally of the chosen people. This was God's will. That none should perish, but that ALL should come to the light. So only after his resurrection could ALL have eternal life "in him".

That's the nutshell, anywho.

Thanks, Klassified. Your knowledge is one of the jewels in the crown on these forums. So....to me, it says that even if you've never heard of Jesus Christ, but you live a good and altruistic life, and do not wallow in greed and prejudice and hatred, you are cool with him.
Yes?

Originally posted by Skada
reply to post by windword

 

No thanks. I am no master. Society says I'm "smart". Only an IQ of somewhere between 139-142, whatever. I still have a lot more to learn, a lot to experience. A lot more connecting with my higher self. A lot more Realizing, and Be-Ing, as we all do. Find your inner truth, and no one can change it.

Oh, here is something that I have found out from this existence: Be very careful what you ask for, because you will get exactly what you ask for. If you ask for an attribute to be increased, such as patience, the universe will test you on that attribute causing you to gain more of it. I asked for patience, I got a child with an IQ of 119, aged 13, ADHD, and way too much energy and curiosity. My patience is tested daily!

So, instead of asking: I want to feel more love.
Answer from universe: Okay, I will give you the experience of wanting to feel more love.

Ask for: I will feel love; Money comes easily and frequently.

You don't have to know how it will happen, just know that it will. And fear is nothing but a belief that is out of alignment with your true self. A belief that you really don't believe in.

Dune's Litany against fear

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain."

There is wisdom within these words.

And something off topic: I turn a whopping 35 on Thursday. Well, chronologically speaking I will be 35. But, in honesty, you are only as old as you feel on any given day. Today I feel slightly less older then I did yesterday, which was 236, today perhaps only 92. Now, on my birthday, I think I will be 2 to maybe 7 at the most. We shall see.

Happy be earlieth birthday, enjoy turning a new age... Just wanted to say thank you for you. Lovely being. I asked for understanding today, and received your posts which gives voice to how i have come to view the world exactly. So in the end of my day I was understood.

I was just pondering an OP about ones deepest desires and how to formulate an open question to be able to receive. I was thinking along the lines of stating the desire in just one word so as to leave the response open to manifest in a way that is truest to what the heart wants. And then let people come back and tell what they received. And then you posted this with the wonderful examples of how the law of attraction works.

So thank you and all the love to you for being the answer to my question today.

Oh and adding I bet your child is a wonderful teacher to you as you are to him/her. I bet you are learning so much more than patience.

Originally posted by Klassified

And who says "he said to do this" (after his "resurrection")?

Scripture does. Read the context around the verses I gave you. Jesus was sent to the Jews specifically because they were God's chosen, and because his covenant was with them. In order to form a new covenant with them, he first had to live and fulfill the letter of the first covenant, because it was perpetual and binding forever. So only through his death could he fulfill (satisfy) the requirements of the law(covenant) and become the embodiment of it through his once for all, atoning sacrifice.
The second covenant then, freed the Jews from the first covenant by proxy, and "grafted" in those who were not originally of the chosen people. This was God's will. That none should perish, but that ALL should come to the light. So only after his resurrection could ALL have eternal life "in him".

That's the nutshell from the Christian perspective, anywho.

edit on 6/26/2012 by Klassified because: add

Klassified, do you mind sharing with us a summary of your testimony? It's obvious that you're well-versed in the scriptures, and your posts hint that sometime during your life you've gone on a different path. What happened? What do you believe to be true?