Why New Agers are "Spiritually Dead" and not "Enlightened"

reply to post by wildtimes

From the fundamentalist perspective, No. You and I are heathens destined for eternal separation from God.

John 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 3:3

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Or, in other words. Unless you die to the old covenant, you will be judged by it. Once you die to the old covenant "in Christ", and are "resurrected" into the new covenant through Christ, you become alive to God.
Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

From the secular perspective, of course, it's all open to interpretation. Continued... hold on.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

As I said my post will offend... The Bible says some people override their consciences until they are callused and unaffected (1 Timothy 4:2)... Only Christ can give people what they need emotionally, mentally and spiritually. We are not God and can never become enlightened by our own actions. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth.

First, how did I know there was going to be a whole lot of Bible verse spouting just by reading the title?

Second, you are correct, we cannot become enlightened by our own actions, it comes from grace. That means that the New Ager is afforded the same grace as the Hindu, Buddhist, or Jew, and Christian. One God, many perspectives. The Hindu does not have to accept Christ to become enlightened, and yet it is still by grace that they receive enlightenment. That aspect of Christianity that says that every other religion or perspective is wrong has always rubbed me the wrong way. God is too big to put in one box and the Christians don't have a monopoly on God.

edit on 25-6-2012 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)

I agree. That view that one view is right and all other is wrong is just ego building up a dualisatic god where if I understand correctly all spiritual growth seem to be about seeing thru that duality.

To make a example. It is like saying you can only arrive at a geographical place for instance Paris from the south road. All other roads do not exists for the Christians. Only the south road shall be driven. You shall not use the north, east or west road. Even if you see the roads they do not exist. They are an illusion created of Antichrists. If you use those road you will drive into the big bonfire that is there but cannot be seen. Knowing those roads are blashphemy.

Fear is a great persuader for people who cannot control it. Fearing god is like fearing the earth below you. Total waste of time. Why not send a thought of gratitude for the beauty of the universe instead to god. The thinking mind and logic truely is a remarkable creation. But a loving spirit behind the mind thrumps that mind and logic. Thank you for existing.

reply to post by IAmD1


You are welcome. Perhaps the soul within me was answering the soul within you. Pay attention, and you will get answers. Also, I have found that when I find out a "universal truth" I feel an immense love type feeling in the chest. Like the love one has for their child or partner. When you get "that specific feeling" (which if you felt it, you can recreate it) then you are in prime mind and soul to manifest easier the things that you want and / or need. Also following the thing that excites you the most can be very fulfilling. Remember this: Excitement is a path that leads to more excitement. It is like your soul dangling a carrot, apple, bonbon in front of you saying: "Come this way, you know you want to"; after which comes another carrot, "come over here, it will be fun". Keep true joy/love in your heart and you will never be lead astray. The soul is creating the map, your mind has input, but doesn't have the pen to make the map; the brain just gets the benefit of the experience. Again, My opinion. Take it for your truth, or reject it, it is up to you, the real you, and the brain.

reply to post by wildtimes

...Continued
But here's an interesting perspective I read a long time ago, and I wish I could find the link to.

In sending Christ to earth, God's aim was not to create the form of "Christianity" we know today, but his aim was to reconcile the whole world to himself once and for all. The way he did this was by fulfilling the first covenant, and blanketing the whole earth under the second covenant. Under the second and final covenant, the sins of humans, that only existed because of the first covenant, would be wiped out forever. This allowed ANY man, woman, child, or other to approach God with a clean conscience, and have a relationship with him apart from legalistic rituals and rules. This way, God could have a one on one relationship with anyone who desired to know him without the hindrances of doctrine and sectarianism, and there would be no need for books, churches, preachers, and so on. It would all be about the personal relationship, rather than about religion, piousness, and separatism. In other words, EVERYONE was saved for all time, 2000 years ago. No exceptions.

Unfortunately, the legalistic and rigid leaders of the day rejected the idea, and loved their places of authority and honor. So Christ's original teachings were written to reflect what they wanted people to believe...

Again, that's the short version.

reply to post by netgamer7k

Klassified, do you mind sharing with us a summary of your testimony? It's obvious that you're well-versed in the scriptures, and your posts hint that sometime during your life you've gone on a different path. What happened? What do you believe to be true?

As I told "Deetermined" earlier, I am hoping to do a thread on a topic that will encompass that sometime soon. I don't want to hi-jack RG's thread anymore than it already has been by going into that here.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by coyotepoet

 

But Christ said theirs only one path to eternal life and that's through him.

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

So if I have faith in anointment then I am save by grace? Christ (anointed) is like the definition of a Buddha. A thing you become/evolve to/recieve not a specific person. I agree totaly that you do get saved by grace/egolessness to become Christ. You and I get a very different view when I read Jesus teachings.

When I am on the other side after this life and if I am allowed I will probably ask to be able to observe how your thought patterns and emotions where when your wrote these comments and if spirit was guiding or not. If I am allowed then that will probably be a very interesting experiance. To see faith from your minds and egos point of view, while still having my own mind analysing.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by wildtimes

 

...Continued
But here's an interesting perspective I read a long time ago, and I wish I could find the link to.

In sending Christ to earth, God's aim was not to create the form of "Christianity" we know today, but his aim was to reconcile the whole world to himself once and for all. The way he did this was by fulfilling the first covenant, and blanketing the whole earth under the second covenant. Under the second and final covenant, the sins of humans, that only existed because of the first covenant, would be wiped out forever. This allowed ANY man, woman, child, or other to approach God with a clean conscience, and have a relationship with him apart from legalistic rituals and rules. This way, God could have a one on one relationship with anyone who desired to know him without the hindrances of doctrine and sectarianism, and there would be no need for books, churches, preachers, and so on. It would all be about the personal relationship, rather than about religion, piousness, and separatism. In other words, EVERYONE was saved for all time, 2000 years ago. No exceptions.

Unfortunately, the legalistic and rigid leaders of the day rejected the idea, and loved their places of authority and honor. So Christ's original teachings were written to reflect what they wanted people to believe...

Again, that's the short version.

Is it still ok though, if Christians present it as a conditional and exceptional exclusivity whereby the only way you can avoid eternal separation ie: hellfire, is to "join their club" by recieving Jesus Christ into your heart or face the consequences..? In other words, can "we" still use fear to force people to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, or else?

Or do we have to actually love others as Jesus first loved us and in so doing present him as a loving invitation to recieve a gift of incaculable value for which we, none of us, did or can do anything to earn or deserve - because that's a lot harder than "accept Jesus into your heart or you will go to hell"..

Originally posted by Skada
reply to post by IAmD1

 

You are welcome. Perhaps the soul within me was answering the soul within you. Pay attention, and you will get answers. Also, I have found that when I find out a "universal truth" I feel an immense love type feeling in the chest. Like the love one has for their child or partner. When you get "that specific feeling" (which if you felt it, you can recreate it) then you are in prime mind and soul to manifest easier the things that you want and / or need. Also following the thing that excites you the most can be very fulfilling. Remember this: Excitement is a path that leads to more excitement. It is like your soul dangling a carrot, apple, bonbon in front of you saying: "Come this way, you know you want to"; after which comes another carrot, "come over here, it will be fun". Keep true joy/love in your heart and you will never be lead astray. The soul is creating the map, your mind has input, but doesn't have the pen to make the map; the brain just gets the benefit of the experience. Again, My opinion. Take it for your truth, or reject it, it is up to you, the real you, and the brain.

Again I agree on all counts. I have spent most of my lifetime trying to explain that love feeling to people and transmit that energy every opportunity I get. For a long time I suffered because I was told so often that i should just get in line, be more selfish and less loving/forgiving and positive because being me was just naive. But I guess since you know that feeling you understand that it far from makes you naive to the world, it just frees you from needing others to be the providers of energy for you. It gives you an endless supply of energy to give out.

It was so painful holding back from giving for a long time but I'm older now (37) and am finally finding my way back to just being in it's purest sense. Loving every moment. And especially loving moment like this when others with the same mind pop out of the box to spread their love. It's amazing how once I stopped hiding my self from the world, the world stopped hiding it's like minded from me. All that time I was hiding hoping to find others I could relate to so I could unhide when all I needed to do was to show myself so that we could all find each other.

imo opinion your opinion is as good as mine

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Well, in the alternative version I explained, nothing is required except... Hey God, hows it going? Just thought I'd touch base with ya...

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by autowrench

 

It all boils down to one of two choices. The man you call Christ was no doubt a very wise man, but he was a man, not a God. He told people, "Follow me." So, here are the choices:

1. Either follow and be a God in your own right.
2. Make the man into a God and just worship him as one.

Which of these have Christians done?

There was only one choice in the Bible, not two.

We could follow Jesus and become one with God through the Holy Spirit.

The Bible doesn't give us the option to be a god in our own right. That's why he struck down the prince and king of Tyrus/Tyre, thinking that they could become as high as God.

So if you are interested in reciving the holy spirit why do you not make a good home for it. Meditation and opening of chakra might be the thing that might make you humble and loving. If you fear god/the unknown then it will just take you longer to get it.

reply to post by Klassified

You mean the atonement covered everyone, even those who didn't believe in him as sent from God..?

Isn't there something required of us, a pre-condition, a gesture, an act, a choice of the will, a forced confession, threats of hell extended to others graciously, surely there must be something we have to DO right..?

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Maybe you misunderstood me, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you said.

I'm not afraid of my actions or views either. I know what wrongs and rights I've committed, and I know who I am deep inside. Coexistence, balance, and empathy are some of the things that are central to me. I am not a divider. My points of view arose from being challenged by other points of view. I grew because it taught me to question even my core beliefs. But it starts when we take a step back and think about it, because we aren't thinking when we're being impulsive. Now that the action was committed, it's probably time ponder the effect of said action.

Or not.

As for indoctrination vs indoctrinated person: do guns kill people or do people with guns kill people? Also, your comment reminds me of this:

His disciples said to him, "Who are you to say these things to us?"

"You don't understand who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."


Again, there could be a misunderstanding here. I apologize if there is.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Do you mind if I ask you what you have experienced through meditation?

What have you learned that you didn't already know?

I asked this of a previous poster, but they chose not to share it. Can you?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You mean the atonement covered everyone, even those who didn't believe in him as sent from God..?

In the alternative version, yes.

Isn't there something required of us, a pre-condition, a gesture, an act, a choice of the will, a forced confession, threats of hell extended to others graciously, surely there must be something we have to DO right..?

Nada. In the alternative version, there is nothing you can do. He has already done it for you.

That's not to say it's right or wrong, it's just something I read a long time ago. I'm still trying to find it again, so I can link it. I'm not having much luck though.

reply to post by Klassified


Just out of curiosity, if everyone is redeemed through Christ regardless, what purpose was there for our free will?

Does our free will on earth serve any purpose for the afterlife?

reply to post by Klassified


So when he was hanging nailed on the cross and said "forgive them father, for they know not what they do" he didn't just mean those who believe in him and accept him and his spirit into their heart as per traditional churchianity doctrine, which makes that a condition of your salvation.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Klassified

 

So when he was hanging nailed on the cross and said "forgive them father, for they know not what they do" he didn't just mean those who believe in him and accept him and his spirit into their heart as per traditional churchianity doctrine, which makes that a condition of your salvation.

Then again, since he was referring to those that put him there, and who might prefer he remain in that bounded state, he was surely referring to the same people today who tell others "accept Jesus into your heart or go to hell" in the sense that they are in truth persecuting him and undermining his intention, to be the final sacrifice for one and for all, and for all time.

I wonder if they knew this, if it would alter their behavior towards their fellow man in the name of Jesus Christ.. ie: if they would persist in using any means or forum, to be in the right relative to another's wrong (while setting love aside)..

reply to post by Klassified


Klassified, I think I found what you were looking for, but if anyone asks, you didn't get it from me. OK? LOL!

I have written this book to let the world in on a secret that the Church has kept away from most people for the last 1,400 years. This is the secret: God will eventually save everyone. This truth, supported by the Bible, was widely accepted by early Christians for over 500 years. The belief in universal salvation was threatening to some Church leaders and the teaching was banished in the sixth century. In the eighteenth century, Christians once again began to affirm Universalism. Since then, many theologians, church leaders and millions of Christians have espoused it. God promises to save everyone, so there is hope for us all.

www.amazon.com...

Now I just created a whole bunch of new homework for myself on the history of early Christianity again. I've done so much research that some of what I've already studied is starting to fall out one ear! God really does want us to spend a lifetime looking for Him, doesn't he??!! Research, study, remember, forget...repeat!

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Klassified

 

Just out of curiosity, if everyone is redeemed through Christ regardless, what purpose was there for our free will?

Does our free will on earth serve any purpose for the afterlife?

Note that I'm going from memory about this, since I can't find the confounded link. But your free will serves a purpose here, and in the afterlife. Those who acknowledge God now, and build that relationship, will reap its rewards in the here and now, as well as in the afterlife. Those who don't will only be aware that relationship was/is possible after their physical death, but will still be able to have that relationship then.