Pantsir-s1

Checking out Debka.com, the speculation is the Turkish F4 Superphantom was shot down by a Russian Pantsir-s1. Why mention this on the Area 51 and other facilities forum? Well Groom, Nellis, and the TTR are well known for exploiting foreign hardware, including radar. It wouldn't surprise me if the TTR had one of these systems since they are available on the open market. The foreign radar exploitation program is/was known as "Have Glib". There couldn't possibly be a worse term to search on the internet for false hits.

Here is what the radar/missile system looks like:
www.kbptula.ru...

Around the range, they might mount it on a more conventional flatbed truck (easier to maintain). The launch tubes might be there, or they might be removed, depending on how they want to test it. My point is you have to photograph what you see around the range, then try to determine if it is some hacked up version of what the enemy uses.

Here are some "threats" you will see around the range:
www.lazygranch.com...

Site-4, located south of the TTR, has numerous foreign radar sites. There are also foreign radar sites near Groom Lake.
www.lazygranch.com...

I got these "Have Glib" documents from the CIA server at the National Archives:
www.lazygranch.com...

The sad part about them shooting down the jet was a) it was unarmed, and b) they shot at the search and rescue crew as they were looking for survivors. That's bulls&^t in my opinion.

reply to post by boomer135


Syria claims to be aiding in the search and rescue. More likely they hope they can recover the hand held recon gear before the the Turks do.

I do question doing recon in what is a fighter aircraft. There is tactical recon, which has to be near real time in order to be useful, and mil jets are used for that purpose. But if I were running the show, I would have used a more friendly plane if time wasn't of the essence, or a more capable plane like a F-16, which the Turks have.

The Turkish Phantoms are some hacked version modded by Israel. I would bet it has countermeasures, but this Pantsir-s1 relatively modern hardware. The other question of course is were Russians running the Pantsir or Syrian troops.

In any event, it was both stupid and tragic.

Speaking of foreign hardware, the Nellis Petting Zoo hasn't been open to media for a while. Then a tour shows up:
www.ar15.com...

Too bad the guy was a gun nut. Those guns and the manpads are shown at Nellis Expo. The aircraft in the Petting Zoo are not shown as often. Sometimes they haul out the Hind as a static display.

reply to post by gariac


You use a fighter because something like a Casa, or a larger plane is almost a sitting duck if they pop a missile at it. A fighter has a good chance of dodging it as long as they are expecting it, and have warning it's coming at them. Once they see it, the chances of dodging go up. There's no guarantee they WILL be able to dodge it, but it goes up with warning, and visual contact with the missile. That's why something like an RC-135 stays well off the coast when they're SAM hunting. If they were to pop a missile off they would be in major trouble.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by boomer135

 

Syria claims to be aiding in the search and rescue. More likely they hope they can recover the hand held recon gear before the the Turks do.

Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc also said for the first time Monday that Syrian forces had opened ground fire on a CASA search and rescue plane shortly after the downing, but did not say if that plane was hit. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

I think your second sentence makes more sense! They weren't aiding in anything but trying to down another aircraft!

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by boomer135

 

Speaking of foreign hardware, the Nellis Petting Zoo hasn't been open to media for a while. Then a tour shows up:
www.ar15.com...

Too bad the guy was a gun nut. Those guns and the manpads are shown at Nellis Expo. The aircraft in the Petting Zoo are not shown as often. Sometimes they haul out the Hind as a static display.

Ok that's badass. I've been to Nellis numerous times for Red Flag and never went and saw this. Thanks for the link!

reply to post by boomer135


Nellis at one time had the Petting Zone online. If you watch that Imax Red Flag movie, they take a tour of the Petting Zoo.

The movie is entertaining enough, but could be better. The script is awful. They simply shouldn't have tried to write a story into the movie, but just do a documentary. The ground "threats" got no screen time. SEAD is a big deal in Red Flag. They mixed two different "flags" into one event, so you see stealth aircraft and foreign players in the same flag. [ I'd have to think if they allow the B2 to fly in the so-called Colonial flags, i.e .US/UK/Australia] They mix in a lot of computer generated aircraft with real aircraft.

The Hind and the Hip mights be at Nellis, but generally they fly out of the TTR. A company called DelJen maintains them. I shot these in 2005:







The Hind was flying directly over our SUVs, but we were on a hill nearby.

reply to post by gariac


good point on the B-2. quick google search brought me here: www.richard-seaman.com...-2

"colonial flag" 07-02 (red flag). Pretty cool pics here and the b-2, f-117 and f-22 were there.