Why was AA 77 not detected by Indianapolis Center?

When AA 77 was hijacked and turned off it's transponder, Indianapolis Center (ZID) could not detect the aircraft on Primary Radar. The transponder provides a unique symbol and identifying information for an aircraft, however primary radar (raw radar return) normally allows the controller to still identify the aircraft based on it's last known position even tho' the detailed information is no longer displayed..

When AA 77 turned off it's transponder the specific sector (airspace division) working him within ZID had no primary radar in that specific location. The reason for no primary radar at that controllers position was that the FAA was beginning to implement Secondary Radar ONLY in some High Altitude sectors in order to eliminate extraneous returns where a transponder was required. Primary radar was considered to be extraneous and an impediment to their job of controlling high altitude traffic where a transponder was required.

An ARTCC (Air Route Traffic Control Center) radar receives feeds from several different radar antennas within range and at that specific location in that sector there was no primary radar being fed into what the FAA calls the "sort box" at that position. That is simply a term for arranging the different radar feeds into the system at a specific radar control position.

Some articles available will indicate there was a technical malfunction at ZID which did not allow the controller to have a primary radar display. That's not correct, but due to reporter's not understanding the issue it was reported as a malfunction. There was no malfunction, it was intentional for the reasons I've described above.

Therefore, once AA 77 turned of it's transponder the controller lost the aircraft entirely. The controller reacted properly, notified his supervisor and they then went to another radar position with primary display looking for the aircraft. What they didn't know was that the aircraft had turned around headed in the opposite direction at a high rate of speed "beating feet" for Washington, DC. They were looking to the West along his flight plan route of flight not realizing that he had turned around. Once they realized the aircraft could not be found, they assumed he had crashed. Bear in mind the events in NYC were just unfolding and they DID NOT know about AA 11, which had recently struck the WTC. (they were working, not watching CNN) They then notified the USAF Air Rescue Center to begin a search for AA 77 as was their normal prescribed procedure.

Eventually, they received word of the events in NYC and realized that the aircraft may have been hijacked. They then notified all Radar Agencies within the FAA system to be on the lookout for an errant aircraft showing only a primary radar return. NORAD was not notified of this action or of a hijack possibility because they had no confirmation of a hijack and did not know in what direction he was headed.

Eventually, a controller at Dulles Tracon (Michelle O'Brien) spotted the aircraft and eventually realized it was very likely AA 77. NORAD was still not notified until approximately 9:36 less than 2 minutes prior to AA 77 crashing into the Pentagon.

How do we know it was AA 77 that was eventually identified? The USAF 84th Rades Squadron is a special unit able to reconstruct from radar archives from all feeds into it's system to produce a radar record of all radar returns within it's system. Their system is not all under the control of the FAA, so they did not have the same limitation that ZID had with no primary radar. Therefore AA 77 can and has been tracked all the way from it's take-off at Dulles IAP to a position just short of it's approach to the Pentagon. I'm sure that 911Files will post that 84th Rades radar picture of AA 77's entire flight that he has put together from the data.

That's what happened for those interested in "finding the truth" of one of the events of that day. There is nothing suspicious or mysterious about it at all...

Some of my sources are not published that I know about. They were gathered from within the FAA and elsewhere.

Here are some published sources:

www.vanityfair.com...
www.oredigger61.org...
www.oredigger61.org...
media.nara.gov...
www.911myths.com...

reply to post by Reheat


thanks for posting this. I'm an air traffic controller, and what most conspirators say about this day is absolutely ludicrous, but it appears you have some experience, or have done a lot of atypical research to find logical answers.

reply to post by exTAC


I'm a pilot both USAF and Airline. Stick around you might be able to help when the loonies come out of the woodwork!

Originally posted by exTAC
reply to post by Reheat

 

thanks for posting this. I'm an air traffic controller, and what most conspirators say about this day is absolutely ludicrous, but it appears you have some experience, or have done a lot of atypical research to find logical answers.

edit on 25-6-2012 by exTAC because: (no reason given)

I think it's more the fact that a few people took advantage of some loop holes in an intelligent way to trick other people into not knowing what really happened.

But yea, only a few people actually know the truth. Maybe one day we will get the official story.

Originally posted by exTAC
reply to post by Reheat

 

thanks for posting this. I'm an air traffic controller, and what most conspirators say about this day is absolutely ludicrous, but it appears you have some experience, or have done a lot of atypical research to find logical answers.

edit on 25-6-2012 by exTAC because: (no reason given)

If you like that, then you are going to love our team investigation results into this. His website is offline these days, but I archived our results and Tom's excellent analysis of this very technical issue.

Lusch AAL77 Analysis Archive

Originally posted by ReheatSome articles available will indicate there was a technical malfunction at ZID which did not allow the controller to have a primary radar display. That's not correct, but due to reporter's not understanding the issue it was reported as a malfunction. There was no malfunction, it was intentional for the reasons I've described above.

I have to take exception with this characterization. This is an issue that has been fought within the FAA by air traffic controllers for years. I would refer readers to the link above to Tom Lusch's work. The radar path was NOT reconstructed using 84 RADES data. NEADS was looking out, not in, so there are large gaps in the 84 RADES data with respect to AAL77. The flight path was reconstructed using FAA ARSR data, specifically data from the ZDC (Washington Sector). The same ARSR's fed into the ZID (Indianapolis Sector) system, but for reasons outlined by Lusch, simply were not available to them due to the way the sort boxes are set up to poll the data. We also used some limited ZID data for the reconstruction. Had ZDC switched on their ALL PRIM switches, they would have been able to "see" AAL77's track without much of a problem beginning around 1305 UTC (9:05 am).

And there is limited evidence that indeed someone was watching the AAL77 primary track, although not conclusive. The airport manager at Yeager AP in Charleston claims that the control tower was evacuated at some point between the second WTC attack and the Pentagon attack due to a primary target headed at them. Yeager was closed due to fog that morning for a short period, so there was no impact to their operations. Early reporting indicated that ZDC was watching the AAL77 track as early as 9:05 am, consistent with the track appearing in the ZDC system. Definitely not conclusive as to what time the track was picked up. However, as demonstrated by the Secret Service logs, someone in the FAA system definitely had eyes on AAL77's track by 9:27 or so.

However, there is limited documentation available with which to establish who was watching the track, and why no notification was made to NEADS (other than Scoggin's second hand and erroneous alert). ZDC told the 911 Commission staff that they never did turn on their ALL PRIM switches (which is required to see primary tracks). Why? As a layperson, that just seems odd to me given the circumstances of the day and instructions to search for primary targets. That is why I say Mineta has a lot to explain, but instead of holding his feet to the fire, people seem to get hung up on going after Cheney based on Mineta's public testimony. I think the truth movement has hung its hat on the wrong "hero" this time around.

Okay, I tried to work from memory last night on my last post and blew the times. Here are plots of the ZID and ZDC primary. These are seen ONLY when the controller turns on his/her ALL PRIM switch.


ZID Primary


ZDC Primary

AAL77 would have been lost to ZID at the time the transponder turned off until 1305 UTC (9:05 am). By then ZID controllers were looking west and south for the missing aircraft, not east where it ultimately returned to the display. In the case of ZDC, there was a primary track beginning at 1259 UTC (8:59 am).

As mentioned before, it was not seen by ZID when it re-appeared in their system at 9:05 am because they were looking the wrong way for it (It was headed south and west the last time it had been seen). ZDC did not see it when it came up at 8:59 am simply because they never turned on their ALL PRIM to look for it.

reply to post by Reheat


I find it amazing that terrorists knew the exact location and coordinates to the towers and the Pentagon, when in air most people wouldn't know which way North is? Second, some say that it was a missile that hit the Pentagon and that they saw another white plane in the sky that day. So, is it possible that a missile did hit the Pentagon and that Flight 77 was the secret plane guiding the missile in? I still say it was impossible for any terrorist to be able to fly any commercial jet with out years of training. A commercial jet at that low of an altitude with a terrorist piloting it, I just see the plane going sideways into the ground! Especially commercial jets with the way their joystick and wheel are both used to control the plane, is such a pain in the ass and too much room for error!. They all looked like well trained pilots for years to be able to hit all targets perfectly! Perfectly by terrorists? Highly unlikely. Planes were most likely remote controlled with the terrorists thinking they had control of the plane!

Originally posted by ATSGrunt
when in air most people wouldn't know which way North is?

At that time of the morning you would have to be as dumb as a truther to not know which way east is.

Originally posted by ATSGrunt
reply to post by Reheat

 

I find it amazing that terrorists knew the exact location and coordinates to the towers and the Pentagon, when in air most people wouldn't know which way North is?

Hint: VOR and compass.