How American fundamentalist schools are using Nessie to disprove evolution with your tax dollars.

Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by olaru12

 

"Buck her up in the name of Jesus " ??!!!

What the hell is buck her up do you think ? Is this the inspiration for Requiem For A Dream ?

The lesson learnt here, is the following:

"The less sense it makes, the more sense fundamentalists think it makes"

~Tenth

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Because this is a private school doing this, and a private school has the right to teach what it wants to.

Not like a public school.

If it is supplying a public service, the public should have a right to say what is being taught.

Would it be OK for me to start a private school to teach people how to commit crimes and not get caught, and not expect someone to try to stop me?

Just because something is private it doesn't mean it can just do what it wants, if it effects the public then the public has a right to stop it if they feel it is a problem. "Private ownership" should not give you the right to do just whatever you want. Freedom means respecting and considering others first, because for you to have the right to freedom you have to in no way effect the freedoms of others.

What a school is teaching our population is our responsibility. No one should have the right to teach people BS.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Wow.

This sure helps America to face her problems in the current financial crisis.
Nothing says "hire me" like a diploma from disney world.

Which brings me to the question:
Exactly how many creationists are there in the U.S.?
I know you have quite a few creationists over there, but how big a threat is this voluntary stultification really?

This will probably be classed as proof by someone

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by olaru12

 

"Buck her up in the name of Jesus " ??!!!

What the hell is buck her up do you think ? Is this the inspiration for Requiem For A Dream ?

The lesson learnt here, is the following:

"The less sense it makes, the more sense fundamentalists think it makes"

~Tenth

Know what you mean "Dispensation" is a word some of these loons like to bandy about in front of normal people, when you ask them to explain exactly what they are talking about they seem to shapeshift into ornamental plants

double post due to lousy ISP

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Well this ties a lot of our stuff together in a nice pretty bow doesn't it?

Let's see, evolution, creationism, and Nessie, all in one. A conspiracy theorists wet dream.

The only problem is, this is being taught in schools, private schols albeit, but none the less, this is shady.

Source

Thousands of children in the southern state will receive publicly-funded vouchers for the next school year to attend private schools where Scotland's most famous mythological beast will be taught as a real living creature.

These private schools follow a fundamentalist curriculum including the Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) programme to teach controversial religious beliefs aimed at disproving evolution and proving creationism.


One tenet has it that if it can be proved that dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as man then Darwinism is fatally flawed.

Critics have damned the content of the course books, calling them "bizarre" and accusing them of promoting radical religious and political ideologies.

The textbooks in the series are alleged to teach young earth creationism; are hostile towards other religions and other sectors of Christianity, including Roman Catholicism; and present a biased version of history that is often factually incorrect.

One ACE textbook – Biology 1099, Accelerated Christian Education Inc – reads: "Are dinosaurs alive today? Scientists are becoming more convinced of their existence. Have you heard of the 'Loch Ness Monster' in Scotland? 'Nessie' for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur."

Another claim taught is that a Japanese whaling boat once caught a dinosaur. It's unclear if the movie Godzilla was the inspiration for this lesson.

Now are these schools receiving public tax dollars? They sure are, to teach the following:

Textbooks of some state-funded Christian schools praise the Ku Klux Klan.

The violent, racist organisation, which still exists in the US, advocates white supremacy, white nationalism and anti-immigration.

One excerpt from Bob Jones University Press American history textbook has been reported as saying: "the [Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross ... In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians."

And we consider this education in this country?

What are your thoughts on using Nessie and the KKK as a means push a religious agenda?

~Tenth

edit on 6/25/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Perfect example of Hegelian alchemy. Synthesyzing two groups of idiots to form one unified group of retards.

I couldn't begin to guess how many TRILLIONS it took to indoctrinate the descendants of Christians that God doesn't exist.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


It took like 10 neurons of gray matter. It was an easy step. You just have to start your brain. I speak in short sentences to reach my audience.
/scnr..
But it was just too easy. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Dead fish. Small barrel. With dynamite. Lots of dynamite. Like I said, just too easy.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Maybe he was never there to begin with?

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Wow.

This sure helps America to face her problems in the current financial crisis.
Nothing says "hire me" like a diploma from disney world.

Which brings me to the question:
Exactly how many creationists are there in the U.S.?
I know you have quite a few creationists over there, but how big a threat is this voluntary stultification really?

That first little bit, made me spit my coffee, well done.

And I think the creationist data is like 60% of the population in the US still? Somebody should dig up some stats on that, but I'm pretty sure its around at at least the 50% mark.

~Tenth

The article says the texts of 'some state funded christian schools' has that information ...

So what exactly is funded by the state in these schools?
Is it playgrounds? Is it the texts? Is it money to do with as they please?
Is it for school lunches? What exactly is being funded?
It didn't say the text books were funded ... it says the schools themselves are funded.

If the state gives them money to make sure the kids all get hot lunches it's one thing.
Ditto if the state is giving them money for a playground or something like that.
But ... If the state gives them money for text books ... it's a whole different story.

I'd like to know what exactly the state is funding and how much they are funding.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Doesn't matter what the funding is for.

It's a private school that charges tuition for their students, they should have the funds to provide meals and all other forms of things for their students, playgrounds etc.

Why would they need federal funding? At all?

If you are being funded by the state, then there should be requirements that you not indoctrinate children with nonsense and fairy tales.

There should be requirements or loose your funding. Do you know how much private schools charge parents for tuition? It's almost like University.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Doesn't matter what the funding is for.

Sure it does. If the school is getting grants for playground equipment or getting a discount on school lunches to make sure everyone eats properly, then that's very different than them getting money for textbooks and teaching materials. I understand what you are saying about everything coming from one big pot of money, but it kinda doesn't.

It's a private school that charges tuition for their students, they should have the funds to provide meals and all other forms of things for their students, playgrounds etc.

When my daughter was in middle school she went to a catholic school that required tuition paid. It was in a lower-middle class neighborhood and all the families struggled to get the money to send their kids to this school rather than send them to the city public schools that weren't safe. The tuition, which wasn't high by private school standards but still painful to pay, was still not enough to have a good spanish program and the arts dept sucked. The school .. like all schools both public and private .. applied for grants for playground equipment, arts and music supplies, and other gov't backed things. Sometimes they got it. Sometimes they didn't. The money is there for all the different schools to apply for.

Why would they need federal funding? At all?

I can only speak to my experience. Private schools (like our Catholic schools) aren't all rich. Many of the church based ones barely get by. Ours was like that. Example - no air conditioning .. and in the mid atlantic in the fall it's HOT. The people can't afford to pay more for tuition. Big companies and the government itself have money available that can be applied for to get these things. I think it was Boeing (not sure) who gave the school a grant for fans in the classroom.

If you are being funded by the state, then there should be requirements that you not indoctrinate children with nonsense and fairy tales.

If the funding is for school books and classroom materials, I agree with you.
If the funding is to boost the school lunches or for playground equpiment,
or for art and music supplies which are an 'extra', then I disagree.

There should be requirements or loose your funding.

Okay ... I lean to agreement with you but I have a question. (and it is a question because I don't know the answer to it .. it's a real stumper) What if it's a Catholic school, or a Lutheran school, or a Muslim school, etc etc ... then the government is paying for schoolbooks which teach religion and 'nonsense and fairytales' (which I agree that a lot of religion is). But that's the job of those schools ... that's their purpose .. to teach those particular religions alongside with the math and reading. So what do you do? Cut off any and all state funding to schools? Those schools that are in the city help relieve the burden of overcrowding at the publc schools and those private church schools do produce kids with much better grades and SATs. What's the answer? I really dont know.

Do you know how much private schools charge parents for tuition? It's almost like University.

I'm PAINFULLY aware of how much it costs. But considering my daughters grades and the amount of attention she gets from her teachers in her Catholic school ... in comparison to the grades and class size of the kids in the public schools in this city ... we are digging deep (and I mean DEEP) to keep her in her school. Considering the dangerous public schools we have here ... we have to. I know it's not the same everywhere, but we live in the megalopolis .. YIKES!

Sounds like they're cheating children out of a proper education. When they leave school and one day maybe get into a debate with a friend about evolution vs creationalism and then pull out the nessie card as evidence to support their argument? Ha, these poor poor kids

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sure it does. If the school is getting grants for playground equipment or getting a discount on school lunches to make sure everyone eats properly, then that's very different than them getting money for textbooks and teaching materials. I understand what you are saying about everything coming from one big pot of money, but it kinda doesn't.

No it doesn't. It doesn't need any money, it's a PRIVATE SCHOOL that charges an arm and leg for tuition. Why would they need government funding? Government funding is for schools that lack money, these schools do not.

Most of these kids are from entitled, relatively well off families. How else could you afford the outrageous tuition?

I mean clearly that's not the case all the time. There are middle income families who rather send their kids there than public schools I agree. But it's still should not be up the general population to pay for it.

When my daughter was in middle school she went to a catholic school that required tuition paid. It was in a lower-middle class neighborhood and all the families struggled to get the money to send their kids to this school rather than send them to the city public schools that weren't safe. The tuition, which wasn't high by private school standards but still painful to pay, was still not enough to have a good spanish program and the arts dept sucked. The school .. like all schools both public and private .. applied for grants for playground equipment, arts and music supplies, and other gov't backed things. Sometimes they got it. Sometimes they didn't. The money is there for all the different schools to apply for.

And it should not be. I'm sorry, but private schools should spend their tuition money on students, not their salaries and bonuses and other means to line their pockets. It's not the children's fault, or the governments fault that they have a crappy balance sheet.

[

I can only speak to my experience. Private schools (like our Catholic schools) aren't all rich. Many of the church based ones barely get by. Ours was like that. Example - no air conditioning .. and in the mid atlantic in the fall it's HOT. The people can't afford to pay more for tuition. Big companies and the government itself have money available that can be applied for to get these things. I think it was Boeing (not sure) who gave the school a grant for fans in the classroom.

Oh the Catholics aren't rich? The Vatican can't provide for all these schools that are teaching the way? That's a so so so wrong in so many ways.

I have no problem with the private sector providing grants and funding to private schools, that's not my tax dollars, that's a private investment.

But church oriented schools should get their funding from either the Church itself, the tuition paid by students and community funding, NOT the government.

If the funding is for school books and classroom materials, I agree with you.
If the funding is to boost the school lunches or for playground equpiment,
or for art and music supplies which are an 'extra', then I disagree.

It should be no different. Either way, they are indoctrinating children with my tax dollars. Either by buying them food so they can be awake and absorb the material that is knowingly false and misleading, or actually purchasing the books that teach them the fairy tales they are taught. Same thing in the long run.

Where's the data that specifically church oriented schools provide more students with stronger SAT's than private schools that aren't religion oriented or public schools? Considering the math involved, and how many kids attend private schools vs public schools, seems to me that would be wrong just by sheer numbers.

I'm PAINFULLY aware of how much it costs. But considering my daughters grades and the amount of attention she gets from her teachers in her Catholic school ... in comparison to the grades and class size of the kids in the public schools in this city ... we are digging deep (and I mean DEEP) to keep her in her school. Considering the dangerous public schools we have here ... we have to. I know it's not the same everywhere, but we live in the megalopolis .. YIKES!

Listen, I home schooled my kids and gave them the choice to go public or private. Private schools IMO are better ( although I prefer chartered schools) because of the extra attention and means they can provide. But this is BECAUSE they have private funding, not state or government funding.

It's another handout that these schools take advantage of, instead of spending the funds they have on the proper things, or seeking grants for their respective churches or local, private organizations that support them.

Private education systems need to stop relying on the tax revenue of citizens to pay for it's business model.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
No it doesn't. It doesn't need any money, it's a PRIVATE SCHOOL that charges an arm and leg for tuition.

My daughters middle school charged about $4,000 a year for tuition. It was a small school and they just barely got by. That $4,000 a year was a lot of money for the people going there. And many had multiple children going. It was in a blue collar (italian immigrant) part of town. It's an arm and a leg to the people going there, but not exactly a lot of money to keep a school going.

Most of these kids are from entitled, relatively well off families. How else could you afford the outrageous tuition?

Sorry, tothetenthpower, but I just gotta ....

I'm sorry, but private schools should spend their tuition money on students, not their salaries and bonuses and other means to line their pockets.

Do you know what the salary is of teachers in these low-rent Catholic schools?
Not a whole lot. And they definately don't get bonuses.

Oh the Catholics aren't rich? The Vatican can't provide for all these schools that are teaching the way?

Different bucket of money. Each church is reponsible to pay it's own bills.

But church oriented schools should get their funding from either the Church itself, the tuition paid by students and community funding, NOT the government.

and they do. But there are gov't programs in place to help schools .. all schools.

they are indoctrinating children with my tax dollars. Either by buying them food so they can be awake and absorb the material that is knowingly false and misleading, or actually purchasing the books that teach them the fairy tales they are taught.

Same can be said for the public schools. NEA = left wing indoctrination.
Man made global warming is one of their favorite things to push.

Where's the data that specifically church oriented schools provide more students with stronger SAT's than private schools that aren't religion oriented or public schools?

Each school provides the data comparing how their students do to the national average ... compares them to other schools both public and private.

Listen, I home schooled my kids

Ditto .. until 5th grade.
[quote[ Private education systems need to stop relying on the tax revenue of citizens to pay for it's busines
Which is why I ask what specifically the government paid for.
Like I said .. Grants for school equipment ... fine. Art supplies .. fine.
text books .. NOT FINE.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You did selectively cut what I wrote there when I said entitled, there was a whole other paragraph for your specific situation.

But most private schools I know in my area and the the religious ones especially are filthy rich.

I know that the church has to pay it's own bills, but there's no excuse for the Vatican not to supply all it's locations with a big wad of cash considering they are still some of the richest people on the planet.

And I agree ther's plenty of indoctrination going on, on both sides. But the whole global warming thing, that's still teaching kids science. Teaching kids that the world has only been around for 6000 years, that we walked the earth with Dinosaurs and that the KKK is a force of good and morality, is not however, helpfull in any sense.

That's not even education, it's just flat out lies. Belief systems being taught as fact.

Were gonna have to agree to disagree, it's upsetting to me that public schools are missing out on funding that's going to private schools. The whole problem with the public education system and why private schools need to be in existance, is mostly because of a lack of funding and government assistance or well laid out programs.

Private schools should not get the same entitlements as public schools, to me it's just not right.

~Tenth

Things are worse than you think. The creationists are in bed with an outfit called the Gulen Movement. The Gulen Movement has 125+ charter schools in the United States. These schools are funded by you, the tax payers.

BAV has a long history of contact with American creationists, including receiving assistance from ICR. Duane Gish and Henry Morris visited Turkey in 1992, just after the establishment of BAV, and participated in a creationist conference in Istanbul. Morris, the former president of ICR, became well acquainted with Turkish fundamentalists and Islamic sects during his numerous trips to Turkey in search of Noah's Ark (Acts & Facts 1998a,1998b). BAV's creationist conferences in April and June 1998 in Istanbul and Ankara, which included many US creationists, developed after Harun Yahya started to publish his anti-evolution books, which were delivered to the public free of charge or given away by the daily fundamentalist newspapers Akit and Zaman as promotions.

ncse.com...

www.nytimes.com...

The Gulen Movement is a Turkish Islamic movement, whose leader has been in exile in the United States for over 20 years.

Turkey's Fethullah Gulen Community (FGC), also known as the Gulen movement after its founder and leader Fethullah Gulen, a Turkish Muslim preacher, often escapes scholarly attention. Yet no analysis of Turkey is complete without due attention paid to the FGC; a highly co-ordinated and centralised movement with many well-positioned followers, known as Gulenists. Some Turks deridingly refer to the movement as 'F-type' or 'Fethullahci' (followers of Fethullah). According to FGC members, the organisation controls millions of dollars and has many organisations, including a network of high schools across the world that serve as signpost FGC institutions. In addition, the FGC owns universities, banks, non-governmental organisations and television networks in Turkey, as well as other countries. What is more, the FGC appears to have influence over the Turkish National Police (Emniyet), including the police's powerful domestic intelligence wing. The FGC's political power renders it a taboo topic in Turkey where many people shy away from discussing the group publicly. The Turks have a polarised view of Gulen: some see him as a political leader such as Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, while others view him as the face of modern, non-violent, even reformed Islam. This and the FGC's political power makes the organisation worthy of closer scrutiny in an effort to map out its structure, global reach, message, political influence and future in Turkey

www.janes.com...

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
But most private schools I know in my area and the the religious ones especially are filthy rich.

Okay. That's your area. Here in our area there are tons of differnet religious schools and each one is responsible to pay it's own bills and each one caters to a different income segment. There is the lower middle class blue collar italian imigrant one ... the 'think they are rich' snooty one ... the old money but quiet one (Joe Bidens Church) ... there is the liberal one ... there is the middle class social one .. there is the old wilmington middle class one ... there are two or three lower middle income ones that are in danger of closing ... etc etc

there's no excuse for the Vatican not to supply all it's locations with a big wad of cash considering they are still some of the richest people on the planet.

That really wouldn't cover much if they had to spread it out like that - considering there are a billion catholics on the planet and all that. And the Catholic church isn't communistic like that. Everyone pays their own bills. The only thing the vatican really does is be there for theological authority.

That's not even education, it's just flat out lies. Belief systems being taught as fact.

Totally agree. But if they are paying for the school books, they can dumb down their kids as much as the like.

I respect that you don't think private schools should get any money from the state. I really do. However, I personally have no problem with them getting grants just like everyone else for playground equipment or lunches or music/art programs. It's when the money goes to text books teaching (like you said) that the world is 6,000 years old or teaching that Muhammad was actually a real prophet of God .. that's when I have issues.

That's why I asked ... what exactly was 'funded' at the school. It makes a difference to me.