Supreme Court strikes down key parts of Arizona immigration law

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posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


It is a very sad day indeed.
If the Fed Govt would actually enforce the the laws, and protect the Southern and Northern Border, like it is supposed to, this would not have to be an issue.

Hopefully, and not really banking on it, but hopefully things will change and the need for this will go away.
As of now, it seems it is necessary.




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by roadgravel
Guess it is a giant effort, when caught in a border state, to but the people on a bus and drive a few hours to the border and empty them out.


The effort isn't in physically bringing them back to the country.



The effort is in determining if they are truly here illegally...we don't want to be deporting our own citizens now do we???



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by macman
 



If the Fed Govt would actually enforce the the laws, and protect the Southern and Northern Border, like it is supposed to, this would not have to be an issue.


You can keep saying it...doesn't make it true.

Here...try some facts for a change.




The Obama administration increased the deportation of illegal immigrants convicted of crimes by 70 percent.


www.politifact.com...

Deportation of illegal immigrants increases under Obama administration


www.washingtonpost.com...

The Border Patrol has 20,000 agents – more than twice as many as there were in 2004


www.politifact.com...

Obama Signs Border Bill to Increase Surveillance


www.nytimes.com...



edit on 25-6-2012 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by roadgravel
Guess it is a giant effort, when caught in a border state, to but the people on a bus and drive a few hours to the border and empty them out.


The effort isn't in physically bringing them back to the country.



The effort is in determining if they are truly here illegally...we don't want to be deporting our own citizens now do we???


Really???!?!?!?!?!!!


Now that is too rich.

Not very difficult to determine that.
If, during a lawful stop, they admit...........They are deported.
If, during a lawful stop, they have false ID, like the guy you used from the Legal Zoom website, and have Mexican IDs...............They are deported.
Or, if it is discovered they are here ILLEGALLY, they are deported.

Not given the time to cry foul to the TV.
Not given the time to come back to court, after they just move their surname around, changed jobs and moved housing.
And surely not given time to fill out documents to apply for this or that. If they can't follow the rules from the start, then they need to start all the way over.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Ending the war on drugs would go a long way.
Many of our laws pertaining to illegal immigration are written so that illegals can be exploited, reverse it... make the employers of illegals pay. Crack down on that and there won't be so much enticement. Legalize other things that I can't say and you eliminate the need for smuggling as well as the ability to exploit people.

Enabling a State to stop any person conducting their business is an insult to our Constitution. I would rather 10 illegals walk by a cop than 1 citizen or legal resident stopped, arrested or questioned.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Yeah, that's nice.


Again. What did 0bama just push last week?

Are you afraid to answer the question? Or just buying time to spin the answer?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by macman
 



If, during a lawful stop, they admit...........They are deported.


Ummm...no...doesn't work like that.

They would still need to be processed by ICE and they have to do their own investigation to prove they are here illegally.

Taking a local cops word for it that they admitted it is not enough...sorry.


If, during a lawful stop, they have false ID, like the guy you used from the Legal Zoom website, and have Mexican IDs...............They are deported.


This doesn't prove they are here illegally.



Or, if it is discovered they are here ILLEGALLY, they are deported.


Yes...once ICE does their investigation and determines they are here illegally...they are deported.

That is the only way they are deported...at that takes resources and time to do that investigation.

I'm sorry...but we aren't going to depend on local cops who don't have the training or resources to make that call.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 

I agree.
If there was truly a war on drugs, alot more people would be killed and/or arrested, in relation to those that supply and manufacture drugs.

I personally don't care what others put into their bodies. So long as their actions don't violate my rights.

It is a sad day in Mudville to say the least. But, what are you going to do???



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Yeah, that's nice.


Again. What did 0bama just push last week?

Are you afraid to answer the question? Or just buying time to spin the answer?


I believe I answered it over and over.

He set enforcement priority...which is exactly his job.

Are you ready to drop your ego and admit that you were wrong in saying that the Federal Government is not enforcing the laws??? You haven't been able to provide one single law that the Federal Government isn't enforcing.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Immigration is a Federal issue...not a State issue. It is the job of the Federal Government to protect the Freedoms of US citizens....

Well ... the federal government isn't doing a good job. So the state has to take over and take care of itself. I don't know why a state can't call up STATE troops and patrol their own borders. That's why there is a militia. Maybe the National Guard as well.

As for the ruling. It was a mixed bag. Arizone won some, and lost some.


Originally posted by The Sword
I wonder if the state of Arizona can actually close the border and/or defend it on its' own?

It should be able to. To tie the hands of border states is suicide.
Side note - Romney has publically stated Arizona should be able to defend it's borders.

This is a good reason to bring troops back home.

I fully agree. Bring 'em home and put them where they belong ... protecting the USA on the border.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis
 



You know as well as anyone on here that no one is going to come up with a specific law that they are not enforcing.


Well then maybe people should stop claiming that they aren't enforcing the immigration laws.

Know your facts before you make the claim.


My question to you is this. Why Arizona?


They were the first...and all you have to do is focus on them. Once the decision comes down on them...the courts have a prescedence to strike down the others. You only have to bring one to the SCOTUS for the others to fall.


What is so bad about Arizona helping enforce the exact same laws that are already on the federal books?


Because Immigration is a federal issue...not a State issue.


And why are other states allowed to?


They aren't...and this decision will be used to strike down any similar laws in other states...that is how the judicial system works.


I love how you twist things around. My point in that statement since you missed it was that its not that they are not enforcing any laws at all. It is that they are not doing enough to help Arizona and they are selectively enforcing those laws and I dont think Arizona's law was first. Sorry but i believe that other states including Oklahoma passed its law before Arizona. I will have to check on that but bottom line, if the Federal government was doing enough they why do you think Arizona tried to pass this legislation?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


The Court ruled largely in favor of the U.S. government, striking down three parts of the Arizona immigration law, but the Court did uphold one the most notorious provisions: A requirement that local police officers check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws if "reasonable suspicion" exists that the person is in the United States illegally.

The question now is can that single provision stand on its own, or does the court action mean Arizona has to go back to the drawing board on their immigration law.



Actually this does make sense. I believe if a police officer stopped someone they believed to be illegal - - - they then had to call in an Official Border Agent (there's different divisions) to arrest them. This wasted a lot of time and man power.


edit on 25-6-2012 by Annee because: DAMN QUOTES!



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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here's a deportation graph.

criminal and non-criminal.




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


So, they are deporting ILLEGALS that are going to colleges?
They are deporting those that where brought here as children and now are adults???
Why press the whole selective enforcement of the law then, by 0bama last week?

Geez, didn't think you could play both side of the coin there.
edit on 25-6-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)


They are deporting illegals...they have limited resources and have to set priorities on who to deport.


So now you admit they have limited resources? So why fight a state that is trying to help bridge that gap? You would think they would welcome the help.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


Ummm...no...doesn't work like that.

Um, actually yes, yes it does.
I was able to successfully turn over 3 people during a process like that to ICE in AZ. They went from my booking area, to the County, where ICE was responding and they took them.

So, nice try again. Where did you get your knowledge of such BS?




Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
They would still need to be processed by ICE and they have to do their own investigation to prove they are here illegally.

Self admission of a crime still trumps alot.
Being processed is booking, fingerprinted, photographed and so on. Do you get your info just from google? Good hell, you can regurgitate a good game, but you sure can't apply it to real world.



Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Taking a local cops word for it that they admitted it is not enough...sorry.

Your sorry doesn't even come close.
When on tape and admitted to other LEO and ICE, it does.





Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

This doesn't prove they are here illegally.

With self admittance, they are.





Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Yes...once ICE does their investigation and determines they are here illegally...they are deported.

And that can be very quick.




Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
That is the only way they are deported...at that takes resources and time to do that investigation.

Really, you act like you are the top detective over there. Signing budgets, filing reports.




Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm sorry...but we aren't going to depend on local cops who don't have the training or resources to make that call.

"WE"??????
Do please esplain Lucy.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


One thing you can do is stop supporting laws that endanger the liberty of anyone, if you can't do it for someone who doesn't share your nationality, than do it for those who do... the ones that would be at risk for being stopped, questioned, arrested under any old reason a cop wants. You want the number of illegals in the US to drop? Tell your local, state and your reps in Washington to crack down on those hiring illegals. Take away the carrot on a stick. Don't ever give anyone with authority the chance to abuse it.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by SunnyDee

So tell us where you stand on illiegal immigration, Outcast? Where is the line drawn for you? Do you think our country should just have open borders, but still offer the same social programs to all the mostly poor that come here?

Please tell us where you stand. We know you tow the liberal party line, but aee you capable of taking a stand for legal american citizens for their protections or do they hold less imnprtance to you than illegal immigrants? Do you respect other countries immigration laws that are much stricter than ours?


Thought I'd ask one last Third time.

If you don't answer, I will assume it is not in your real interest to to be part of a solution to immigration issues.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Well ... the federal government isn't doing a good job. So the state has to take over and take care of itself.


That is your opinion...not a fact.

The States do not control the United States border...sorry...they don't.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Here is a good one for Outkast. This is a story about the Border bandits killing and raping the illegals crossing the Arizona border. What side are you on with this one? If we stopped the illegals from coming in then neither of these groups would be on the border. But I am sure the Federal government has already stopped this, right? Because they are enforcing that federal law to the letter?



Illegal immigrants are routinely attacked by border bandits and robbed and raped in our borderlands.

These crimes are not shown in the official statistics because most of the victims don’t bother to report them…because they would be deported if they did. And the victims who do come forward get deported and the criminals continue their crime wave in the borderlands.


tucsoncitizen.com... ew-from-baja-arizona/2011/07/20/border-crime-statistics-don%E2%80%99t-tell-the-real-story/



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by TheTardis
 



love how you twist things around. My point in that statement since you missed it was that its not that they are not enforcing any laws at all. It is that they are not doing enough to help Arizona and they are selectively enforcing those laws and I dont think Arizona's law was first.


Let's review your earlier comments and see how much I'm twisting things around.


states should be able to do whatever they deem necessary to keep out illegals if the federal government is going to sit back and do nothing and that is what is going on here.


"do nothing at all"...hmmm...that doesn't sound like you are saying they aren't doing enough...it really sounds like you are saying they are doing nothing...because that is exactly what you said.

What else have you said.


Their claim is that the federal government is not enforcing it.
...
The federal government just said that Arizona cannot enforce the law that the federal government refuses to enforce themselves.


Yeah...it still kind of sounds like you are saying they aren't enforcing it...not that they are not doing enough.


I'm sorry you spoke without knowing the facts and that I called you on it...that isn't me spinning things...this is you trying to back track out of an ignorant statment you made.





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