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Supreme Court strikes down key parts of Arizona immigration law

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posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


If you read the thread...you would have seen these.

www.politifact.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

www.politifact.com...

www.nytimes.com...


Deportations are up...overall "illegal" population is down.

But yeah...they aren't doing anything





You aren't required to give police an ID unless you are driving a car, drinking alcohol, or in a strip club. There may be more circumstances where you have to prove your age or that you have a license to operate something...but just for standing around...you don't have to give them an ID.




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 



I disagree here. I don't think that visitors or non-citizens should have the same legal rights of a US citizen. If this were the case then they could vote, run for office etc.


And how do you identify a visitor before approaching them???

If a cop mistakenly asks a citizen to show them their papers one time...that is one to many.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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They can still ask for your immigration papers if you're stopped by state police in the state.

As far as I knew that was the only part that they were fighting against though.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


That's a catch 22. We are a diverse nation, we have people here (legally) from every other country on earth. How is a cop supposed to judge by appearance who is a citizen and who isn't? You can't. So in order for a cop to be able to stop a visitor and ask for papers, a cop would have to have permission granted by law to ask me, a citizen, for mine.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm only required by law to give a police officer my name...how is he going to prove I am legal with that information???


Actually, depending on where you live, you are not even required to do that unless you are under suspicion of committing a crime. My wife is a naturalized citizen. Not accounting for her race, no one would suspect her of being illegal.


Why do you assume I will have identification on me...I often don't.

And why should I, as a US citizen, HAVE to prove that I have a right to be in my own country???

Do you not see the problem with this???


I do see a problem if a US citizen is being stopped and asked for papers without suspicion of committing a crime. As a US citizen, I can site my employer, my SSN, my address and other documentation that should have already verified my legal status. Without carrying any identification, I can verbally provide information that can be verified in minutes.

You are assuming that US citizens would be stopped because of racial appearance. I say that the Arizona laws not only did not authorize that, it prohibited that.


They can't just walk up to someone for looking "foreign" and demand to see their papers.
Honestly...is that the kind of country you want to live in???


Again, it isn't about appearance, its about other factors.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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The States do not have a right to over-step their bounds.

Immigration is soley a Federal issue...the States have no say and should have no say into it.


So can you show me where it is a Federal issue and how THEY haven't overstepped their authority!?

The subject only comes up twice in the constitution and it never mentions immigration. Only Naturalization is discussed.

Article1 Section 8 gives the authority to Congress, “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization"

Amendment 14, Section 1
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

Nothing about people who enter a sovereign nation illegally.

So the Constitution does not give the federal government the "right" to regulate immigration, it only gives them the power to regulate the requirements to become a citizen.

AND, If the power is NOT granted to the Federal Government........

The 10th Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Is there an article in the Constitution that says that states are not allowed to protect their borders from foreign invaders? And that once a state is invaded that local law enforcement has no right to pursue and apprehend people committing crimes within that state unless they are a certain color?

We (Arizona people) are dealing with one of your beloved illegals right now in town. He was in a drug deal gone bad a month ago and gutted the dealer with his hunting knife from his belt to his chest. I don't really care about that because he was another illegal Mexican drug dealer who was selling crap to high school kids and had been deported twice already.
Last week the same guy pulled a 15 year old girl off her horse on a trail here outside town and beat her very badly because the girls mother owns a local bar and she kicked the guy out and banned him for life from the bar. So to teach mom a lesson he hospitalized her 15 year old daughter. Dozens of guys like him cross our border every day, maybe hundreds.

Yet I am a racist for wanting to regulate who comes into my state and for wanting them to do it legally. MAybe you should have to deal with the problem and not get all your information off the internet and news sites!



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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I'm of the opinion that the southern border States should mimic Mexico's laws.

Felony - 2 years in prison for the first illegal crossing; 10 years for the second time around.

Seems fair we should show our respect for Mexico by having the same laws they use. Mexico is clearly aware of the danger of an open border.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
BIG SIS TO AZ: DROP DEAD!

www.washingtontimes.com...


The Obama administration said Monday it is suspending existing agreements with Arizona police over enforcement of federal immigration laws, and said it has issued a directive telling federal authorities to decline many of the calls reporting illegal immigrants that the Homeland Security Department may get from Arizona police.


NO he is not a nice guy, I am so sick of people saying I may not agree with Obama, but he is such a nice guy, he is not a nice guy, and four more years of mister nice guy, will really wake you up.

good luck
edit on 033030p://bMonday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)






Wow, this administration is out to destroy every piece of America. But like Obama said as he was running for president. "I'm going to fundamentally America." And yep, he's lived up to his campaign. He's changing America into a third world communist country.

And now Americans are called racists if they disagree with him.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
And how do you identify a visitor before approaching them???
If a cop mistakenly asks a citizen to show them their papers one time...that is one to many.



Originally posted by Kali74
That's a catch 22. We are a diverse nation, we have people here (legally) from every other country on earth. How is a cop supposed to judge by appearance who is a citizen and who isn't?


You can look at location, behavior, language, knowledge.

A cop can drive by a Home Depot and see a group of people standing around, with some occasionally getting approached by trucks where a conversation occurs and some depart with the driver.

The cop can then go up the the group and start a casual conversation. If the people there cannot carry on a conversation in English, its a safe bet that they are either visiting from a foreign nation legally, or are here illegally.

A cop cannot and should not be stopping people based upon race and asking for identification. They can approach anyone and have a conversation, and after that or considering behavior and other factors can then ask for ID.

I see groups of hispanics in Wal-mart every time I shop there. They arrive and depart in usually a small vehicle in which many are piled in beyond the seating capacity. They are unable to converse in English with the cashiers. Sometimes they have one person with the group who is a more experience linguist and translates. It isn't hard to spot foreigners.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


My landlords who live above me are Albanian, they are Citizens but they barely speak English. Should they be asked for papers?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Can someone please tell me why we have a border if we allow everyone to come into our country illegally?

I don’t wish it, but I’m waiting for the day some well-funded, well organized, terrorist group gets a wmd into to this country and kills 20, 30, 40+ thousand Americans. Why do we have to wait until something terrible happens before someone decides to do something about it? I mean really, if your average everyday Mexican illegal alien can easily get into this country on a daily basis, what would stop anyone else?

It makes me sick! We are only biding our time waiting for the inevitable! I’ll hold onto this post as a future reference. Just to tell everyone….”I told you so”.

If you can Outkast, please answer the questions I've addressed. I really would like to hear it from you.


edit on 25-6-2012 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Propulsion
 





I mean really, if your average everyday Mexican illegal alien can easily get into this country on a daily basis, what would stop anyone else?


Easy as the 19 hijackers on 9/11 who came in legally on visas.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

Felony - 2 years in prison for the first illegal crossing; 10 years for the second time around.


Our prisons are all ready over crowded.

Solve that problem first.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Finally found exactly what parts were upheld and which were struck down.

Struck down

AZ RULING: Court has overturned sections requiring a) aliens to carry a registration papers



AZ RULING: Court has overturned section of AZ law: b) prohibiting illegal immigrants to seek work, saying fed. law overrides this state law.



AZ RULING: Court has overturned section of AZ law: c) allowing police to stop and arrest a person they suspect of being deportable (illegal)


Upheld

AZ RULING: SCOTUS UPHELD requirement that police try to get immigration status of anyone they arrest, but court ruled on procedural grounds



So, in is a win in my opinion for freedom. Police in Arizona can't just go up to someone and ask for their papers. All they can do is to try to get their immigration status during a valid interaction and they have a reasonable suspicion that they are illegal. However...the part of the law that allows them to do anything about it has been struck down...so they can't arrest them or detain them even if they find out they are in fact illegal. All they can do is notify ICE.


It's also a huge win for Obama and the Federal government because it really solidifies that the federal government can challenge and override state law.


I'm sure you've heard this a billion times, but for some reason, people like you just can't seem to retain information that doesn't apply to your thought process.

"What about "illegal" don't you understand"?

I know it's not rocket science, just a simple question.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Propulsion
 





I mean really, if your average everyday Mexican illegal alien can easily get into this country on a daily basis, what would stop anyone else?


Easy as the 19 hijackers on 9/11 who came in legally on visas.
Oh ok....I feel much safer now. Thank you for putting my mind at ease...



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Felony - 2 years in prison for the first illegal crossing; 10 years for the second time around.


Our prisons are all ready over crowded.

Solve that problem first.


Yes and more than a few of the prisoners are already Illegals or the result of drug trafficking based out of Mexico. Using one problem to justify another is always specious.

I'll admit I'm biased as I had a family member murdered by an Illegal in a sanctuary city, who had been arrested three times before for attacking women and yet they refused to report him. They still have not and will not. The Detective says he will be released in the US after he finishes his Plea Bargained and completely inadequate sentence. They think he will just change towns and his name and continue on his merry way.

Mexico claims he is in a prison in southern Mexico even though the fingerprints match. He raped many women before he was driven to the border and released by Mexico. Forgive me if I'm biased.

I am all for a Guest Worker Program and making it easy for law abiding people from any country to come here to work. Close the Border though.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Wolf321
 


My landlords who live above me are Albanian, they are Citizens but they barely speak English. Should they be asked for papers?


Correct me if im mistaken I thought the AZ law only gave leos the right to ask for citizenship papers if the said person was only being approached due to probable cause? Where did it say in the AZ law you can stop anybody who looks illegal and demand papers without any probable cause?

Furthermore you , and Outkast really just want open boarders, lets just clear the air on that one and be honest.
edit on 25-6-2012 by hellbjorn012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by GD21D
I'm just going to paste what I replied in the earlier thread. Just keep diminishing those state rights.

This is the direction we're going. Sooner or later the states are going to have had enough.

Where is the line drawn? As a nation do we have a definitive line that the Federal Government can't cross any more. Is there a consensus on this? This is what the states need to start discussing.
The rights of individuals are far more important than the rights of the state. Sadly some people seem to value the latter over the former.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
My landlords who live above me are Albanian, they are Citizens but they barely speak English. Should they be asked for papers?


In order to obtain citizenship, you have to be able to show that you can read and speak English. There is an interview process. Additionally, in dealing with the utility companies, banks etc, your landlord should likely be able to speak conversational English. If such an English conversation was to take place between a law enforcement officer and your landlord, then there should be no suspicion and your landlord would likely have told the officer about his citizenship and coming to the US.

I don't know you and have no reason to doubt your assessment of your landlords English, but I am highly skeptical based upon the logic behind becoming a US citizen, having seen the process first hand. If you are correct, then there has been a grievous injustice in authorizing the naturalization of a person unable to function in a predominantly English speaking nation. An issue that goes back to the federal governments inability to enforce and regulate immigration.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Seems fair we should show our respect for Mexico by having the same laws they use. Mexico is clearly aware of the danger of an open border.

Old law that is already off the books.

Mexico didn't actively patrol its southern border until the US called for it under the Merida Initiative.
edit on 25-6-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



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