Emergency NATO meeting tomorrow, will war be declared on Syria?

reply to post by stumason



1. If those 3 Helicopters can't do much then how come the West is kicking up such a stink about it?

2. Russia and China have the missiles and air capability to make the US hurt. Yea, the USA can take on one and have a pretty high success rate but taking on two? That swings the advantage to SCO and their allies.

3. Russia has been looking for a politically viable solution to keep the US ABM from achieving maximum efficieny and looking for ways to counter it. They found it in the Topol-M stealth ICBM which was recently tested and passed all expectations.

4. China has a missile with a range of 5,000 km. The US is only 4,600km away. That puts the US West Coast in range for Chinese retaliation.


So you saying Russia and China can't do anything is wrong. Dangerously wrong.

reply to post by Outofcontrol


Every soldier is someones son, father, brother, uncle, daughter, mother, sister, aunt. We always forget the real names of the players when it comes to war.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


It would be pretty hard to accidently fly over America . The middle easts boarders change in minutes during fly time so one minute you're in Turkey and the next your over Syria.
That cant happen over the US. Its the US for thousands of miles not hundreds.

Originally posted by Trajan
reply to post by stumason

 

1. If those 3 Helicopters can't do much then how come the West is kicking up such a stink about it?

2. Russia and China have the missiles and air capability to make the US hurt. Yea, the USA can take on one and have a pretty high success rate but taking on two? That swings the advantage to SCO and their allies.

3. Russia has been looking for a politically viable solution to keep the US ABM from achieving maximum efficieny and looking for ways to counter it. They found it in the Topol-M stealth ICBM which was recently tested and passed all expectations.

4. China has a missile with a range of 5,000 km. The US is only 4,600km away. That puts the US West Coast in range for Chinese retaliation.


So you saying Russia and China can't do anything is wrong. Dangerously wrong.

SCO is not a defense based organization. There is no official defense treaty between China and Russia either. China won't do a squat for Russia, unless China is directly attacked. UN vote is one thing and military action is another.

Can't base all expectations on Topol or Bulava missiles. It takes a comprehensive and multilayered structure to make an opponent think twice before jumping into an adventure.

End of it all, Russia is no shape to fight military action against NATO. I do not see any helicoptors reaching Syria anytime soon.

the game of thrones.

Nothing is going to happen...Like the past saber rattling.

I think it's too early for TPTB to declare war on Syria. I've been saying that I think the next big war is on the horizon and that it will be either with Syria, Libya, Iran, or Egypt (especially with the new election of Mosri) or possibly any combination of them. I think America will be detrimental to this declaration of war. Obama has said he wants troops out of Afghanistan by 2014 (which I do not believe him). And Romney said he would keep the troops in Afghanistan. So I think a war in one or multiple of these areas could be used as an excuse to keep troops in Afghanistan.

Regardless to who is "elected" (read as "handpicked") in November, either Obama or Romney, the groundwork for the war(s) is being laid now. I think the timetable for the beginning of the war will be between 2014 and 2016. By 2016, either Obama will be ending his second term or Romney will be running for a second term. So these wars could be used to garner support for the next election cycle (either getting a Republican in after Obama or to get Romney re-elected). I think it will be nothing but political like the wars were used in 2004.

war is real. in the nuclear age war is irrelevant.

will you be willing to part of an invasion force rumbling towards moscow or beijing fightin millions upon millions of chinese and russian troops in their home.

that's the only way to defeat a nation without using nuclear weapons.

technology will only get you so far.

you still have to fight.

don't wish for war, because you will be drafted and you will be sent to the front lines of hell and death.

double post.

The USA or UK will not be too keen to back up Turkey if the USA see Russia as getting involved, only today I see where America are shortly to get a big kick back from Muslim leaders the USA was thinking it could trust, but now the Yanks are going to get badly bitten by the very group they have been helping with arms of late.
I honestly think that the USA have bit off a lot more than they can chew, because for the first time in many years the world has far to many trouble spots on the go at one time.
All of these problem area's are made by what the UK & USA thought were Muslim friends, but now rather too late America have found they were foe not friends, so the USA sadly are dead in the water.
Iran, Turkey, Sudan, Korea, Horn of Afica, Iraq, plus more the world is kind of looking really battle torn, it would not take long to turn into WW3 would it?

Frankly, I think the reason the Russians are making such overtures and gestures is to make sure they protect their strategic interest. It looked like Putin had a decent meeting with Bibi today in Israel, and I fully expect the Russians would step aside and let whatever regime come to power in Syria so long as their naval base is protected and their economic interests are considered.

As far as what I expect tomorrow, I think it's probably just more collateral for an eventual strike based on "humanitarian" reasons.

But if Russia isn't on the same side, they'll act sooner rather than later.

I do think that Turkey will be a little larger before this is all over.

I don't agree with the premise of the OP. This is just chest thumping that will lead to nothing.

Syria is involved in a Civil War and since both sides seem to be equally problematic, there is no reason to do anything other than perhaps contain the problem.

Nobody is going to invade Syria.

The Russians have been probing Canadian airspace for years, we haven't shot any of their aircraft down. (inb4 derr Canadian Air Force jokes) Syria didn't HAVE to shoot anything down. Would have been in their best interest not to, just record what happened and tell the public about it.



But Turkey will be asking for Article 5 of NATO:

Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. This is the principle of collective defense.


Turkey: NATO should view Syria as attacking it

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey said Monday it would push NATO to consider Syria's downing of a Turkish jet as an attack on the whole military alliance.

www.ajc.com...

reply to post by karen61057


What about Canadian fighter jets, yeah sure they don't have much of a military but still can wonder into the states. I live about half an hour from the border and as far as I can see there are no changes.

reply to post by MidnightTide


however for NATO to go on attack, each and every member should have to agree, do not think that is happening right now just because one plane was shot down.

"History is a bath of blood. Modern Man inherits all of the innate pugnacity and all of the love and the glory of his ancestors. Showing wars irrationality and horror is of no effect on him.

The horrors make the fascination. War is the strong life; it is life in extremity; war taxes are the only ones men are never hesitant to pay, as the budgets of all nations have shown us."


William James-1906

Originally posted by MidnightTide
The Russians have been probing Canadian airspace for years, we haven't shot any of their aircraft down. (inb4 derr Canadian Air Force jokes) Syria didn't HAVE to shoot anything down. Would have been in their best interest not to, just record what happened and tell the public about it.



But Turkey will be asking for Article 5 of NATO:

Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. This is the principle of collective defense.


Turkey: NATO should view Syria as attacking it

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey said Monday it would push NATO to consider Syria's downing of a Turkish jet as an attack on the whole military alliance.

www.ajc.com...

edit on 25-6-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

It's easy to say "just let the unidentified craft enter and leave" but put yourself in Syrias shoes. Just months ago another Arab nation was in a very similar position, the western powers openly supported the rebels and bombed Gaddafis troops and cities to hell and back. These same western powers are openly anti-Assad and fund and arm the rebels. Don't you think there's just a tiny chance that Assad and his military are extremely paranoid and suspicious about western/NATO actions at the moment? The country is engaged in hostilities, it's perfectly normal to shoot down unidentified planes, because it'd be insanity to allow your enemies do surveillance OR risk that the unidentified plane is coming on a bombing mission.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
The Russians have been probing Canadian airspace for years, we haven't shot any of their aircraft down. (inb4 derr Canadian Air Force jokes) Syria didn't HAVE to shoot anything down. Would have been in their best interest not to, just record what happened and tell the public about it.



But Turkey will be asking for Article 5 of NATO:

Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. This is the principle of collective defense.


Turkey: NATO should view Syria as attacking it

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey said Monday it would push NATO to consider Syria's downing of a Turkish jet as an attack on the whole military alliance.

www.ajc.com...

edit on 25-6-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Tell who's public their own, not like msm is going to give them any air play now is it.

Why would they not shoot it down, turkey has apparently been regularly violating their air space is actively involved in assisting rebels & probably a hell of a lot of espionage to incur decent and defection of Syrian forces. So if turkey wants to view it as anything they can view it as justifiable retaliation for their acts of war and perhaps NATO can bomb Turkey.

So an unarmed training flight "accidentally crosses into Syrian air space & from reports not for the first time, yeah & Saddam had WOMD's too.
Give me a break this isn't a fly by of Disney land there are regular border clashes the world is building against them, and they feel the noose tightening, I think someone wanted to see how far they could push before someone shoved back and that's just what Syria did. Stop pushing me, Stop pushing me, STOP PUSHING ME, POW right in the kisser I told you to stop pushing me.

To compare this with Russian entering Canadian air space is a joke plain and simple, lets up the anti a bit and say America and Mexico similar situation, here is the plot you tell me how America would react.
America only has limited radar capability and the diff between crossing a border is a km, no time to see something coming from 200km out to sea and issue repeated warnings scramble you fighters or any other fancy tricks not available to Syria.
Now Mexico has spent the last decade crushing your allies and repeatedly calling/causing war with them & you instilling their own chosen leaders in you country.
Mexico has imposed sanctions on your country and is doing everything it can to have Obama removed, including starting a civil war, arming terrorists inside the US fabricating stories of mass murder by the POTUS to show the world and calling on international bodies to enter the US and destroy your military capabilities then remove Obama & his henchmen.
Now Mexico & it's allies repeatedly fly spy planes over the US (an illegal act & justification for war) they start to cut of US supplies including the Military assistance your legitimate allies are providing.
Mexican and US forces start using small arms and even artillery on each other in regular small instances, Mexican air force then repeatedly crosses the US border cause pilots in such a WAR zone always forget how close they are to enemy territory and Mexican ground systems never monitor question or alert them when they might be pushing the limits.

Anybody who thinks the US wouldn't shoot first ask Q's later needs to put the crack pipe down, I mean maybe Syria should just let foreign fighter jets buzz Damascus before reacting.

I refuse to believe with the current climate in the region, the preparations for war and the level of intelligence one would assume required to make it to a fighter pilot that this was a mistake, and instead a deliberate act of antagonism either by a lone suicidal pilot or more likely those higher up who viewed him as expendable.
Turkey should ask forgiveness and be glad that was Syria's only response to such an act of aggression.

There will be no military response tomorrow i promise. You can quote me. 100% guaranteed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but most of theese US/Nato offensives against arab countries rely heavily on support from surrounding countries. i.e Turkey alowing NATO to use it's air bases to launch strikes etc.

Why don't countries like Syria & Iran just threaten bio warfare on anyone who assists NATO or even further doesn't come to their aid against NATO.
Iran has major chem & bio weapon stocks & I would guess Syria does too, so simply put out an all points.
The moment outside forces attack us we do not hesitate to unleash everything we have in one hit, if we are going down you are coming with us, just a matter of how many of our planes get to make one pass & how far & wide our missiles can strike.
We will leave wind direction to Allah.
Countries like Turkey would have to think twice or a dozen times before calling for an attack cause they will bear the pain while America etc walk away free & clear.

Why has no one used bio weapons to a major degree yet, honestly they have had decades to prepare and how hard is it to get a couple of glass vials into the US, just go to Mexico and walk across the border, head to the nearest populated area and crack that sucker.