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found it - here you go - what if 20 million illegals left the USA

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posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by artnut
 


Why is the overriding assumption here that if you are "Mexican" you are an illegal?

My family is "Mexican" and we have been here since the early 1600's, you know, since this part of the country WAS MEXICO. My great grandfather was a wealthy (for the times) rancher. His son, my grandfather started his own business in an area where it was worse to be Hispanic than black in the eyes of the racists. His business prospered and was frequented by people of all races and socio economic strata. His son, my father was one of the first Hispanics to attend BYU, where he received a degree in teaching and returned to his hometown to help insure that ALL children received a fair and equal education. BTW, all of the people of those generations of my family spoke/speak Spanish and English.

Some of the ignorance I find here is not only disgusting but disheartening as well. This country is home to "illegal" aliens of all colors and creeds, from every far flung corner of the earth. Most come here fleeing poverty and the violence that is ubiquitous in their own land. They come here for a better life and safety for their children. They work harder than most Americans can even contemplate, doing jobs that it is proven Americans will not do. You know, like picking crops for 16hrs a day in one hundred degree heat.

Yes, there is a problem. The problem is that this country does not have a comprehensive immigration policy. After 9/11 the number of guest worker visas were slashed to the bone and it was nearly impossible for those who depend on the immigrant labor pool to find enough workers. It was also impossible for those who had been coming here for generations to work legally to continue to do so. This affected people from all countries who came here to work.

This fell hard on the heels of the free trade agreements which forced millions of Central and South Americans off their farms and into poverty due to the industrialization of agriculture in thier homelands. In that enviornment crime and drugs found a fertile breeding ground. Those disinfranchised people had to find work and safety somewhere. They have come here. They would be happy to come here legally if our county would get its head out of its ass and stop making it so difficult and expensive to do so.

Yes, there is a problem, there are many; the largest of which is the divisive nature of politics in our country. There must always be an Us vs. "Them" mentality pushed in order to keep the sheep from noticing the real wolves circling the herd. And sadly, most of you fall for it every time.

Oh, and as for the numbers tossed around in the OP....well, maybe you have heard the old saying about "lies, damn lies and statistics".




posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Lostmymarbles
 


Well to be honest ( i am not american but we have similar issues in Europe in my country)
this is factual problem you have arised but you got to think about it from otherside who is profiting from these low wage workers. People get used to it and sooner they realize that depend on foreign workforce is bad better for them.

To consider someone illegal some conclusion has to be made "consensus" based on logic and other aspects. Doesnt mean its difficult that it is impossible also...
You americans you got to start somewhere and i know it is hard because now you have country in certain advanced way to hell and it is hard to reverse it but more and more people realize that it is necessary to start doing something to search for original values that you country was based on and was as an example and NO1 democratic country in the world.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Ghrwilson
reply to post by Lostmymarbles
 


I was against illegas until I read your post. Your right we should flood America with as many people as we can. Elbow to elbow and we can all have are hand out waiting to get fed by the government. I hope none of thoes illegals are terrorist but we'll never know until its too late


Illegal, legal, natural, unnatural, all made up words that mean nothing other then to the person who invited it.

If your from planet Earth you have a right to live your life and move about as you wish and experience life as God intended.

As for those terrorist who are hiding out in the illegals that your afraid of. I too am afraid of those terrorists that are hiding out amongst us, those Timothy McVeighs, Anders Behring Breivik, Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, and all the others that tend to blend in with the rest of society.

Were those the same ones you were thinking of as well?



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by jaguarsky
reply to post by artnut
 


Why is the overriding assumption here that if you are "Mexican" you are an illegal?

My family is "Mexican" and we have been here since the early 1600's, you know, since this part of the country WAS MEXICO. My great grandfather was a wealthy (for the times) rancher. His son, my grandfather started his own business in an area where it was worse to be Hispanic than black in the eyes of the racists. His business prospered and was frequented by people of all races and socio economic strata. His son, my father was one of the first Hispanics to attend BYU, where he received a degree in teaching and returned to his hometown to help insure that ALL children received a fair and equal education. BTW, all of the people of those generations of my family spoke/speak Spanish and English.

Some of the ignorance I find here is not only disgusting but disheartening as well. This country is home to "illegal" aliens of all colors and creeds, from every far flung corner of the earth. Most come here fleeing poverty and the violence that is ubiquitous in their own land. They come here for a better life and safety for their children. They work harder than most Americans can even contemplate, doing jobs that it is proven Americans will not do. You know, like picking crops for 16hrs a day in one hundred degree heat.

Yes, there is a problem. The problem is that this country does not have a comprehensive immigration policy. After 9/11 the number of guest worker visas were slashed to the bone and it was nearly impossible for those who depend on the immigrant labor pool to find enough workers. It was also impossible for those who had been coming here for generations to work legally to continue to do so. This affected people from all countries who came here to work.

This fell hard on the heels of the free trade agreements which forced millions of Central and South Americans off their farms and into poverty due to the industrialization of agriculture in thier homelands. In that enviornment crime and drugs found a fertile breeding ground. Those disinfranchised people had to find work and safety somewhere. They have come here. They would be happy to come here legally if our county would get its head out of its ass and stop making it so difficult and expensive to do so.

Yes, there is a problem, there are many; the largest of which is the divisive nature of politics in our country. There must always be an Us vs. "Them" mentality pushed in order to keep the sheep from noticing the real wolves circling the herd. And sadly, most of you fall for it every time.

Oh, and as for the numbers tossed around in the OP....well, maybe you have heard the old saying about "lies, damn lies and statistics".














If your family has been here since the 1600's you are American, not Mexican.

Ignorance? I just got through posting personal experiences, with known illegals, I am not just reading some random post and then making crap up. It does happen that the majority of illegal aliens are Mexican, I did not make that up, nor do I affect that in any way. Did you even read all of the posts? MY experience, and I have had it my whole life, was spent mostly in Texas. A lot of my experience with illegals has been with volunteer work, and, in this capacity, illegal aliens, predominately Hispanic. One of the problems I have is watching parents in the NICU, who are not illegal, talk about their crushing medical bills, which they have to pay, due to their income, which is not huge by the way, and it will take them years to pay the bills. They believe in paying their bills, not government help. But, they are sitting across from illegal aliens with premature babies, three other kids, and huge bills as well, and they DON'T have to pay because they are poor. Both parents work hard, both Fathers are employed, but only one family will be saddled with the actual bills. Irony here; the parents who are legal pay taxes too, so not only are they paying their own bills, they are also helping pay the illegal's bills. Do you have any idea how much this frustrates me?

Nobody should get special treatment because they are minority -or- illegal ! I volunteer because I have a need to help, I donate money because I have a need to help. My volunteer work is centered around minorities and illegals, because children are the focus. These experiences are my choice! When my county government takes a portion of my taxes to pay for hospital care, I don't have a choice.

And yes, they do know how to work the system, I have also seen this first hand at the bbqs and family gatherings I have been invited to. They share how to get the most out of the system. They do not like it when I tell them that that is wrong, that is for damn sure. But, hey, what choice do I have?




edit on 26-6-2012 by artnut because: did not seperate posts



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by 1BornPatriot
 


There's no escaping them.

If the entire US packed up country and moved to the North Pole, it would be a week before the illegals showed up wanting in.

Glad I live near the Canadian border so I don't have to deal with this scourge.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Darkrunner because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by BrainGarden
 


Liberals are the people that keep hiring illegals to keep costs down and maximize profits?

Please, tell me more about your amazing ability to generalize!



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Lostmymarbles

Originally posted by Ghrwilson
reply to post by Lostmymarbles
 



If your from planet Earth you have a right to live your life and move about as you wish and experience life as God intended.


Uhhh....no you don't.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by artnut
 


I understand about your personal experiences. I do not mean to diminish them in any way.

The point I was trying to make is that most Americans, do not know or care to know the difference between a Mexican or a Columbian. Any brown skinned person who primarily speaks Spanish seems to be suspect in our current social incarnation. No one seems to be complaining about the legal workers who come here and do actually take jobs from American citizens. Go to any resort in the North East and just try to find an American citizen who is working there. Except for management they are as scarce as hen's teeth.

I also don't think you understand the gist of my post. I wholeheartedly agree that there is a problem. The answer to that problem is not vilifying a certain segment of society because of their circumstances and perceived ethnicity. Yes, some people work the system. That is as true for American citizens as it is for illegal immigrants. I live in an impoverished area of South TX and I see it everyday.

Oh, the point regarding my ethnicy was meant to point out how ignorant of history some Americans are. When I go to town, here in S.TX, many people do not see an American citizen, they first see a Latina, then if they are bigoted and let's face it, bigotry is alive and well in S.TX, they see a probable illegal immigrant. Like I said, "we" were here for many generations before this was even part of the US. It was Mexico, and prior to that I had Native American ancestors who had been here for 12,000yrs when the land did not even have a name.

To label people and assign an arbitrary nationality to them is a wrong headed idea. We are all just people trying to get along and do better for our children. Let's change the laws to reflect that and allow those who would like to come here to build a new life and contribute to society in a meaningful way do so.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by coop039

Originally posted by Lostmymarbles
Questions:

For all those illegal aliens using fake ids to get jobs that pay taxes, which they cannot claim during income tax time to get back a tax refund.

editby]edit on 25-6-2012 by Lostmymarbles because: (no reason given)


But they are filing taxes. In fact some of them are claiming LOTS of kids that dont even live in the country (maybe dont exist) and getting back outrageous amounts of money.
edit on 26-6-2012 by coop039 because: (no reason given)


Key word is "some" as you stated above. So for the bad deeds of a few the rest must suffer as well?

Do you think that all 20 million illegals are doing this? It's most likely a smaller percentage doing this, a very small percentage.

What about all the money that was lost out from taxes do to so many millionaires and billionaires moving their assets to foreign banks. I believe that it was estimated that over 15 billion dollars is hidden each year and that number is probably way lower then what's really being hidden. So with the current tax bracket for those who have more then 350k at 35% then the loss from taxable income off the 15 billion would be 5.25 billion.

Seems like we're losing a lot more from those moving to foreign banks then from those doing fraud tax filings.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Darkrunner

Originally posted by Lostmymarbles

Originally posted by Ghrwilson
reply to post by Lostmymarbles
 



If your from planet Earth you have a right to live your life and move about as you wish and experience life as God intended.


Uhhh....no you don't.


Explain please.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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This topic hits home to me, Im from England, born there, my parents are both from England, we all moved over here in the early 80's, and went throught the whole process of becoming American citizens. My parents moved over here to look for oppurtunity, my dad is a self-made man, started a business, and now has around 30 people working for him. Some are latino, some are American, ALL pay taxes. I think the only way to solve this, is to improve the system, allow those who are illegal to have a chance at becoming citizens without fear of being prosecuted. there is a lot of latinos where Im from, what with Tyson Chicken co being in this area, Most are hard working, but there are those that just dont follow the rules, Cheat the system, have multiple families living in the same house, and when tax time comes around, they use different names and SS# to get money back, for the same kid 3 times over, thats not fair. and this is not limited to just illegals, a lot of American families do the same thing, the entire system has become flawed, it wasnt that way, when I became a citizen, in 89. Our whole family took it very seriously, we had to learn American history, learn the Pledge of allegence, and so on. Im not sure they even make you do that anymore, rules are so much more relaxed, and I think a lot of people just see it as an obsticle, rather than a duty to become a citizen. to many loop holes.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Saint88
 


You Invade a foriegn land, you massacre its indigenous people to extinction, then create laws that deem the indigenous people as the outsiders and have the audacity to call them Illegals and aliens... absolutely genius.


Yep! Just like Britain, France, Spain, Russia, India, China, Japan, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Greece, and on, and on, and on...

Your remark was absolutely ignorant! Be careful... you also live in a "glass house". It doesn't matter which country you're from!

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Lostmymarbles
 


we are losing more from people bringing their money out of the country

which is why theyre trying to implement laws to stop the average joe from doing that, of course the "big boys" will be exempt.

we could solve all of our problems pretty easily, audit the fed, reinstate glass steagall, repeal NAFTA, write off the derivatives, punish those responsible in the private sector and in government for financial fraud, lower taxes and cut spending massively, make America the shining light on the hill again for jobs in all sectors, and perhaps if we do that we would even have enough jobs to keep all of the illegals here. so long as they dont become little communists who want to take guns away etc.
edit on 6/26/2012 by smarterthanyou because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


Ship out all the racist white trash that complain about illegals.

Very good! If you're incapable of using logic... insult those you disagree with.

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


There are more refugees than Americans that do those jobs.

Would you be so kind as to link to a source?

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by jaguarsky
 


I think it was Reagan who granted amnesty years back, but I could be mistaken. It was not a solution. Even if we grant amnesty now, the problem is still one of poverty, yes they will pay taxes, but will be legal, so they can then claim child tax credits and still not pay taxes. Perhaps tax reform is a huge component of this.

I am interested in your experiences as a Latina in South Texas, and your perception. I am a "Whitina" or whatever you want to call me for better lack of a physical description with as much relevance as yours, not being ugly here, just describing. I personally think of you as an American, but with browner skin than mine if I may presume. If I am understanding you correctly, you are facing discrimination due to the color of your skin. I lived in S. Texas too, was born in San Antonio, and later moved to Corpus Christi. I also faced discrimination for my skin color in S. Texas, to the tune of missing out on a job opportunity because I was white. Other experiences of course, but what is the point of rehashing all of them? Of course, it was not as threatening as the time my husband and I were threatened in Hawaii by a group of large Samoans at a Chuck E. Cheese, but that's another story
What can I say? I am sorry you face discrimination, not all white people are like that. I suspect that will get better as time goes on too.

South Texas is predominately Hispanic, right? My divorced Mother and Father both own businesses in the San Antonio area, so I am down there quite a bit. Both of my parent's business employ mostly hispanics. It's unfortunate, but it appears there is a large portion of Hispanic illegal immigrants living in South Texas in poverty, although there are some very wealthy Hispanic families as well who are entirely legal. So that is why I am addressing the issue of illegal immigration in relation to the Hispanic numbers in Texas, my experiences, and statistics.

I believe the answer for the Hispanic illegal alien population is education and more education. I can help there, I have before, by mentoring. I have encountered a lot of illegal Hispanic families who don't seem to value education as much as I wish they did. This is why I have focused on the children. I don't want them to grow up on welfare, they need a fighting chance if this will change. Integration is also huge, they need to immerse themselves, learn the language, etc.

What is not helping, is the government footing the bill for illegals with taxpayer dollars. I am not advocating sending everyone home, but if they come, they need to be able to support themselves, this goes for all immigrants. I don't support most forms of welfare for the people who do come from here either, make no mistake about it. People in this country need to quit employing illegals, this is most likely the best answer. Greediness is astounding on this scale in relation to American Employers, all though, that might ease if small business taxation was not so ridiculous. All in all, I just want a choice on who I support financially, mostly, just myself, but I will help others in need.

I enjoy dialog with people who can see both sides of a problem, there is always two sides. Like I said, I have had some wonderful experiences with some Mexican families that are here illegally, very hard working people, I just wish they had not broken the law to get here.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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they take jobs and get paid less.
so americans have to take less pay to get a job.

not enuff money to go around from tax.

I dont get it?
it is in thire best intrest to make ever one well off.
then they can get more money from them.

or do they have all they need.
so they take US back to a primetive age.
they stay safe in a big Very monder city.
and we farm with sticks.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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This thread demonstrates a very real, and potentially fatal, problem in the United States. That problem is NOT illegal immigration! It IS the lack of a willingness to compromise!

While I don't feel that deportation of current illegal immigrants is feasible, I don't feel they should be granted amnesty either. They should be forced to comply, just as all legal citizens are, with the laws of the United States.

For those that come forward, admit to entering the country illegally, haven't been convicted of anything beyond a misdemeanor infraction of the law, and entered the country before a certain deadline, I suggest:

A five year probationary period during which they should seek and maintain gainful employment, take the reguired steps to become US citizens, and pay a $1,000 dollar fine within that probation period.

Those that fail to comply with the above, those that commit other crimes, and those that enter the country after a certain deadline, should have their money and possessions confiscated, serve a suitable jail term, and then be sent back to their country of origin.

Diligent enforcement of the above should negate many of the problems associated with illegal aliens. Lack of enforcement of current and past laws is what caused those problems to begin with!

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by R3KR
 


Ship out all the racist white trash that complain about illegals.

Then this country would be a much better place.

I hear Tijuana isn't too bad of a place for a gringo this time of the year.



You are more then welcome to try to "kick me out" Yet another fine example of how the left plays. It is all about the people chant, until you disagree with them.....then they get rather violent.



Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by BenReclused
 


I get out enough, thank you.

I work one of those same jobs and I'm an American.

There are more refugees than Americans that do those jobs.

If more Americans weren't lazy good-for-nothings that didn't like working nights, those jobs would go to Americans!


Hey, here is an idea. Kick the illegals out, then we can get the welfare, entitlement crowd to do those jobs. Perhaps they should start earning that paycheck, instead of sitting on their asses all the time.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Morgenstern89
 


if the immigrants were irish and english and german there is no debate

you know this is true

spare me the financial and legal argument

it's a beard for racism, plan and simple



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