Cops Attempt to Detain a guy with a gun, Supervisor comes in ..Can i have my gun back Sir ? .. Yup !

Originally posted by fourthmeal
The sooner regular people realize that these open-carry and CCW folks are the SHEEPDOGS, we protect the flock by having TEETH. As responsible gun owners we understand that evil exists, and we fear no evil at the same time.

Understand?

Lol give me a break.....

Originally posted by Ben81

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by Ben81

 

No worries, buddy.

Forgot to say

S&F

This video is bound to make for a great discussion.

yeah it will create a 2 sided debate for sure.. the usual on ATS

on why the supersivor didnt back up his collegue cop on this
if i was a cop i would check everyone identity especially guys with guns showing it on their belt


btw Still vote for you has GST FOR REGENT

little bit of publicity sometimes is good

TRUTH_2012

edit on 6/24/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

I had flagged this thread until I saw this post...

If you were a cop and you insisted on checking everyone's id just because they carried a gun or because you felt like it, you would be breaking the law and violating their rights...

So I cannot in good conscience give you a flag on it...

This video is a great reminder that there are still people versed on their rights and willing to risk themselves to show others what their rights are...

Jaden

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


If the guy is walking around with a gun in the open for no reason, then he is seeking attention and bad attention at that. He might have the right to do it (for now), but he is surely providing the politicians ammo to eventually take that right away.

Enough guys like the one in the video start doing things like that, it won't be long before congress will happily step in and legislating new laws to protect us.

Originally posted by jheated5
This guy goes out of his way to do this though, I mean good on him for standing up to the cops but is there a motive to it? Is he using this as an educational video or is he waiting for the police to slip up so he can file a lawsuit? I know it's not illegal to do what he does but this is the 2nd video of the same guy doing the same thing that i saw...... No doubt carrying a rifle on your back out in the open like that is gonna get the cops called on you either way....

The guy is clearly trying to protect himself against an increasingly criminal police force. You can't give the police and inch nowadays. They have made it perfectly clear to us all, that their sole purpose is to convict, and inflict, not to protect.

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

If the guy is walking around with a gun in the open for no reason, then he is seeking attention and bad attention at that. He might have the right to do it (for now), but he is surely providing the politicians ammo to eventually take that right away.

Enough guys like the one in the video start doing things like that, it won't be long before congress will happily step in and legislating new laws to protect us.

So by your logic... all of those ohh so offensive "stand up comedians" I see on TV everyday are only an excuse to remove my 1st ammendment right? You know how offensive they can be afterall.

Exercising our rights is an excuse to remove them?...WTH did you go to school?

Originally posted by matt47274
I carry a pistol on me everyday, it is either on my belt where anyone who would take a look and use their brain would be able to determine what it is, or i have one in my pocket. Both are covered but both could be "made" if someone paid a little bit of attention. I also have a video and voice recorder on me in the form of my phone which I would think now and days the majority of people who are carrying do. (I responded to you just to point out if you have a pistol you probably have a "camcorder" on you also)

This kind or reminds me back in the day when I was a bouncer at a club. One of the other guys always wore a thick leather jacket for protection, and carried brass knuckles for "just in case" well I never got in a fight and he always looked half beat up...

You know if that was what he was looking for he found it all the time...as I'm sure one day you will find whatever you are looking for too..

Anyway, I feel that the cop is in the wrong here. He is the one that initiated force, he stopped this man, took his weapon, and held him without proper reason according to the law. Then tried to get him to turn over his idea which is outside his power when not done in accordance with the law. This is evident by the fact that the supervisor came up and allowed the man to go because he apparently knows the laws.

I do agree the cop should have never taken his gun and that is basically where he stepped over the line, but I guess we can all Monday morning quarterback it to death.

It is highly concerning to me the number of comments on the original linked site that think this man should have to submit to a search because someone driving along was uneasy with a law abiding citizens appearance and accessories. I guess every goth kid with a chain wallet that I think looks suspicious and worries me that he may beat an old lady to death with that wallet chain should be stopped and forced to turn over ID to make sure he isn't crazy and willing to choke or beat an old lady with that chain. Or god forbid you have your tire iron out on the side of the road changing a tire, is he going to throw that into traffic?

This guy posted his video and story on a few sites and that kind of leads me to believe he was working hard to get it...

BTW you open carry...where the hell can you go with a gun on your hip? Why not just go concealed? To be honest I can't remember the last time I actually saw an open carry...

reply to post by interupt42


No he's not doing it for no reason. He's doing it because it is his right, his obligation and his duty to carry it as it is all male citizens over the age of 18....

Go read posse commutatus. It is an obligation of all able bodied men over the age of 18 to come to the aid of and assist officers in a time of need and to protect their fellow citizenry against crimes.

Police who violate our rights as citizens are committing crimes too. Whose job is it to police the police? To monitor the politicians and ensure that they are not over stepping their mandates???

It is 'We the People', that's who.

If what you say is true and they attempt to pass illegal legislation taking away our fundamental rights to protect ourselves from any danger, including an over reaching government, they will have defined themselves AS that over reaching government and it is OUR responsibility to then ensure that the system of government in place is capable of ensuring our liberty and it is the SECOND amendment that aids in us assuring that our liberty remains in place.

Aside from the fact that our forefathers saw the need for us to eventually overturn a government that usurps authority from the people and start over from time to time, there is a built in mechanism to allow congress to legally change what their mandates are.

2/3rds of both houses and 3/4ths of the states... Now, sometimes even if they follow that mandate, it can still be an usurpation and the people ALWAYS have a right to say no. not for transient causes, but when the oppression is substantial, but these guys aren't even doing it within their constitutional mandate.

If they try to pass legislation against it, it will be thrown out by the supreme court, if the supreme court does not throw it out, then the people WILL....

That's one thing you can take to the bank, although I wouldn't trust being able to get anything back out of a bank, so maybe you shouldn't take it to the bank...

Jaden

Seems like this guy was out to prove a point, but I think it's funny how uncommon people act like it is to see someone with a gun. Maybe it is just that I live in a place that it isn't uncommon to see someone with a hand gun on their belt or a rifle in the back of their vehicle. And no I do not live in the deep south or anything, I'm in Colorado. I live in a place where guns are used for protection or for hunting. Guns are just a tool, not everyone who uses a gun is out to kill someone.

Besides, I'll be damned if I live in the place where only the police and government have weapons! What better way to let the government get out of control! If you give them all the power and only allow them to have weapons, don't be surprised when you are ruled by them in every way.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
BTW you open carry...where the hell can you go with a gun on your hip?

Anywhere that is considered public property...on private property it is normally at the discretion of the owner. Also, most businesses I frequent do not require those with open arms to leave. I don't know where you get this idea.

Why not just go concealed?

Concealing a firearm without a concealed carry permit is considered a crime.

To be honest I can't remember the last time I actually saw an open carry...

That is no excuse to infringe on my, or anyone else's rights. See my comment about stand up comedians above. You not being used to something is not going to infringe on my natural rights, sorry.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by WhatAreThey

I don't give credit to people for NOT going to jail, or NOT lying, or NOT committing murder, or NOT beating their wives.

As I expected. At least you are honest about holding people to unreasonable standards and demanding perfection. I give you credit for that too.

Personally, I give credit to people for DOING GOOD, not for NOT DOING BAD. I can only imagine how ridiculous it must be to tell your significant other, "Thanks for NOT CHEATING on me today!" or telling your kid, "Good Job on NOT FAILING! You were damn close, but you just made it! GREAT JOB!".

God forbid a cop assume someone is innocent until proven guilty.

By that reasoning, if someone robs a bank at gunpoint while an officer is inside watching, guns down 30 innocent people while the cop watches, the cop can do nothing because he hasn't been proven guilty.

It is not possible for a cop to establish guilt or innocence. Ergo, everyone must be treated as though they are acting lawfully, even if a cop is watching them commit a crime.

Nice world you live in.


No, police officers are not charged with establishing guilt or innocence. They are, however, charged with establishing the legality of an observed or reported actions by making critical judgements on how those reported or observed actions relate to what they understand of the law. Ignorance of the law is no more of an excuse to a police officer than it is an excuse to a citizen.

A police officer certainly has the ability to discern between clearly legal and illegal actions. These include, but are not limited to:

Going the Speed Limit vs. Speeding
Walking down the street vs. Raping someone on the sidewalk.
Walking down the street legally open-carrying a weapon vs. walking down the street with weapon drawn pointing it at people.
Firing a firearm at a firing range vs. Firing a firearm at a police officer.

Or, perhaps a more pertinent example: Waiting in a teller line to transact vs. Killing 30 people in a bank while robbing it.

OK... I don't know if I can still continue this discussion with you. You really believe there is no difference between asking for ID and breaking/entering/rape?

There are tons of differences; However, I am illustrating the similarity of two illegal actions. The typical relationships and associations that we encounter in life can be categorized in many ways, and do to the potential complexity of the manifest relationships, some people are unable to differentiate the relationships into discrete categories. What I am simply attempting to illustrate to you is that illegality may be considered with absolution, just as legality may be. The concept of illegal and legal actions is the cornerstone of any legal system. It turns out that the two actions which we are discussing (e.g illegally asking for ID and illegally entering a household/orifice) may and are considered illegal activity, both with a range of applicable sentences. Do to the nature and characters involved in the process of asking for an ID illegally, and the unwarranted handing over an ID do to a lack of knowledge on the part of the 'hander', this illegal activity is often unreported and mostly misunderstood to the point that it is simply brushed away as acceptable by people such as yourself..

The Nazi's were just doing their jobs too. A Hit man who kills someone is just doing his job. An organized crime henchmen is just doing his job. Pay someone to rob a bank - just doing his job!

And now you equate a cop to a Nazi war criminal, a mob henchman, and a bank robber.

What universe are you in?

I'm sorry. I must not have made the point clear that just because you are doing your job, does not make what you are doing valid, right, or praiseworthy. You must have been side-tracked by my examples and were unable to process the core point of my argument. Sorry about getting you side-tracked with the superfluous examples. Again, I apologize.

The Cop was the one making his own job harder, by NOT KNOWING HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY. He was obliviously getting On-the-job training from a citizen who knows the law better than the enforcer knows the law.

Ah, I think I get it! You believe:

• Cops are undeserving of any praise no matter what they do.
  
• Cops should not be allowed to arrest people, stop people, or even talk to people.
  
• Cops are evil villains who rob banks and kill people on orders.
  
• Cops should also be attorneys and psychics.

Should they also leap tall buildings in a single bound and stop speeding bullets with their teeth?

Sheesh...



Good job on typing that. I'd like to formally give you credit and praise for not messing up a completely fallacious paragraph. ;-)

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by mee30
But instead you want to blame the guy for knowing more than the cop? Oh I'm sure he's really sorry about that!

The guy was within his rights...well within his rights. I just find it is silly to open carry around Portland. So he walks the streets with a gun on his hip...he can't go into a single business he can't do much, but parade around with his gun.

His attitude does fit Portland well and the cops there deal with the "your stepping on my freedom" routinely, so we have some guy who open carries only for the purpose that he can, and most likely enjoyed his little confrontation with the cops.

I agree he found the cop he was looking for, one that wasn't use to this situation, and one that most likely follows some typical pattern when he stops a vehicle when asking for an ID. The gun guy spouting off rulings did nothing for the situation because the cop most likely didn't study up on those rulings, but the cop didn't escalate anything and his more experienced supervisor came and handled it as he should.

All I'm saying is I find the gun guys main purpose was to aggressively engage the cops on his rights and film it.

edit on 25-6-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

Uh you're wrong you can carry into place of business unless posted otherwise. A concealed permit gives no special privilege other then you can carry concealed. Same rules apply you cannot carry into a federal buildings, post office, court house, schools, some specific state parks, some counties and cities have modified ordinances. A person open carrying probably abides by those laws more then a concealed permit holder does. I can honestly say I know more women with conceal permits then men. They're toting it in their purses or thigh holsters. The ridiculous part about all this is cops being schooled by open carry civilians out on the streets. LOL

Originally posted by Ryanssuperman

I'm all of civilian rights, however, in Canada, the police are allowed to request identification regardless of if they suspect you of a crime. I think this is a safe practice ... and doesn't infringe on our rights.

(sounds to me like they don't stop you to often here in Toronto then. I personally have been harassed by the Toronto Police Services many times. You sound like your from Rosedale or the Beaches. Also you don't mention that we can't carry firearms in Canada. I mean the police just profile you by the way you dress and the location your in. You don't see the police, randomly stopping lawyers or business men because of every little thing.)

The guy recording could have been a multitude of things ... criminal, escaped convict

if he was a escaped convict then he is a criminal... i enjoyed reading your comment though... it gave me a good laugh.

I find it sickening that he had to know all those laws and codes. he would of been in trouble if he was the average joe. and your right he does seem to have an alterior motive for making this video. hopefully its educational...

It is sad how little the average American knows about what rights they have under the law.

I'm sure this goes for many countries, but the US citizen in particular needs to start getting to know what rights we have, because at the moment they are being stripped away from us.., and no one cares because no one even knows the rights they are losing and why it's important we have these rights.

Our forefathers knew it and that's why the people we're given these rights specifically. It wasn't like they picked them at random. There's good reasoning behind it, and when we lose these rights and it's Martial Law all over the States alot of people are gonna be scratching their heads wondering how it happened.

Oh damn... what is wrong in America... I think the cop is right with his point of view.

You really have to get your laws straight. I would be afraid if everybody is allowed to legally carry a gun.

reply to post by WhatAreThey

Personally, I give credit to people for DOING GOOD, not for NOT DOING BAD. I can only imagine how ridiculous it must be to tell your significant other, "Thanks for NOT CHEATING on me today!" or telling your kid, "Good Job on NOT FAILING! You were damn close, but you just made it! GREAT JOB!".

Firstly, I consider honesty a good thing, worthy of some credit.

Secondly, I consider not cheating a good thing.

Thirdly, I consider not failing a good thing.

You apparently consider all of the above as less than good.

They are, however, charged with establishing the legality of an observed or reported actions by making critical judgements on how those reported or observed actions relate to what they understand of the law.

No. They are charged with questioning the legality of an action that they question. If they are charged with establishing legality, that means they are charged with establishing guilt. Guilt is the commission of an illegal act.

They do not tell the court "This action is illegal and he did it." They tell the court "I question the legality of this person's actions and believe he may be guilty of a crime."

There are tons of differences

Yes, there are, including the right of a cop to ask a question of someone. Asking questions is not illegal.

You are also aware that any time a complaint is received, police are required to check it out, right? Even if it is a bogus complaint.

I'd like to formally give you credit and praise for not messing up a completely fallacious paragraph

Well thank you!

Now to point out the obvious: war criminal and mafia henchman are illegal operations; asking a citizen questions is not. That is the difference.

TheRedneck

Open Carry is legal . Check your state's website or your local county sheriff's website. I Open Carry everyday. Allmost everywhere I go. Walmart, Lowes, etc, etc, in my state if there's no signage on the front of business stateing NO WEAPONS, then you are within the law & your rights to walk right on in with your firearm on your hip.

I have had managers of stores tell me I can't be there with a gun, I have had the law called on me, just as the man in the vid, the law sided with me, each and everytime. Had a really surreal experience at A Walmart awhile back, law called on me, store manager freaking out because I came in to buy ammo. They refused to sell it to me because of the gun on my hip.. I asked the manager,"Where's your sign " that states no entry with weapon.

He said he didn't need a sign. Local law enforcment, let him know he did. And unless there was signage, I was totally within my rights and was not breaking the law. I went right back to sporting goods and bought a box of 32 long colt for my wife's purse gun. Smiled and waved goodbye as I left. Yea I get some looks, but I would rather get a glareing look, than be a victim of a crime. Open Carry, I support it, you all should too. Excellent deterent to being a victim. IMHO, folks normally don't mess with the man with the gun on his hip.

Being that summer is here and there are currently a ton of young and impressionable people on the site, I think it should be pointed out that this stunt was extremely dangerous. This guy was armed in two ways, with knowledge first and foremost and with a firearm. If the average person did what this dude just did in the video...in my town at least, he be dead...before any conversation takes place..."Drop the gun NOW! DROP IT!!! NOW GET DOWN NOW! POP POP POP POP!!! We have shots fired...suspect refused my order to yield" Cops in my area are dressed in military garb and don't like armed citizens.

Originally posted by Ben81
is the law very strick about this ?
you cant arrest anyone walking with a gun in the streets without a clear reason to suspect him ????