Cops Attempt to Detain a guy with a gun, Supervisor comes in ..Can i have my gun back Sir ? .. Yup !

reply to post by Ark005


No No No! You are dead wrong! Okay imagine you are driving down the road. Well the car you drive can very VERY dangerous yeah? I mean I don't know you have a license or anything! For all I know you could be driving away from a robbery! It could even be a stolen car! You could be on your way to run someone over! Or driving away after running someone over! So should I call the cops and say I saw someone driving a car? What do you think they will say to me?

There is absolutely no difference in the scenario with the guy and his gun! He is completely legal!

What you do not like is that he is knowledgeable about his rights and you are not! Neither are the cops and you don't like that either! He is not the aggressor here! The cop was! He illegally detained the guy and then started asking for his papers! The guy stood up for himself and said NO!

When the person called in and reported a guy carrying a gun the operator should of informed them that it is completely legal to do so! And probably informed them that reporting a non-crime is a waste of police time! Now had the guy been running down the road screaming and waving his gun in the air THAT is another matter! Just as if someone was driving erratically or speeding or something. Or maybe had blood all over the bonnet! That is a reason to call the police! But you can't call just because someone is driving a car! Just like you can not call because someone is carrying a gun!

Your attitude annoys the hell out of me! The guy was completely LAWFUL and within his RIGHTS! What do you not get about that?

reply to post by Xtrozero


No see it's the other way round! The guy has learned these lines because the police are abusing their powers and detaining people for no god damn reason! Imagine you were pulled over in your car and the cops were asking for your papers! You ask him what is the problem? He says "oh nothing just someone saw you driving and was scared so we want to check you out! Now say that happened every time you drove your damn car! Wouldn't you be pissed? Wouldn't you begin to research whether that was in fact lawful?

Anyone in their right mind would! Jesus man the guy did nothing but stand up for himself and remind the cops of the bloody LAW! Which he shouldn't even have to do! That is not his job! I've seen others where they just do not talk at all and then are told they can go! At least this guy had the decency to take his time to explain to the cop what his job is! As clearly the cop didn't have a clue!

What you should be asking is why does that cop not know the law? Why was he called in the first place? Why didn't the operator inform the caller that there was no crime here?

But instead you want to blame the guy for knowing more than the cop? Oh I'm sure he's really sorry about that!

Originally posted by Ryanssuperman
I think its ridiculous to allow a man to walk down the street with a firearm and not be able to request ID or a permit (assuming a permit is required).

I'm all of civilian rights, however, in Canada, the police are allowed to request identification regardless of if they suspect you of a crime. I think this is a safe practice ... and doesn't infringe on our rights.

The guy recording could have been a multitude of things ... criminal, escaped convict, not allowed to carry firearms ect. To be able to get away without identifying this individual is crazy.

I disagree with your assessment of things here in Canada. Perhaps in Canadian cities, cops would follow through, however outside of the cities, throughout the country, there are folks carrying high powered rifles and shotguns all over the place. You don't see cops harassing them. That's all they would be doing up north and in the country is stopping hunters and farmers. So I think as long as the person is within his or her rights, which was the case in the OP the cops should stand down. Interesting though to see the cop push and push to find wiggle room to take advantage of a person's ignorance of the law. With every question the guy had a good answer until the cop said yup and buddy was on his way. If given any opening they will take advantage of the situation.

Originally posted by jheated5
This guy goes out of his way to do this though, I mean good on him for standing up to the cops but is there a motive to it? Is he using this as an educational video or is he waiting for the police to slip up so he can file a lawsuit? I know it's not illegal to do what he does but this is the 2nd video of the same guy doing the same thing that i saw...... No doubt carrying a rifle on your back out in the open like that is gonna get the cops called on you either way....

Some States in the U.S. have OPEN carry laws. You have to get a special permit in order to conceal them. Open carry is allowed in Washington state. Though you must not be making a scene out of carrying it in an intimidating fashion.

Washington State also does not allow an officer to stop you unless he suspects you of or has seen you commit a crime. Asking for ID without cause isn't allowed.

It's possible he made the videos to explain how to handle this type of situation and wanted it to be an actual situation instead of getting people to act it out. Of course he's taking the chance of going to jail if the officer plays a different hand of cards. If your State or area has open carry laws, you should check out what the ones are in your area before attempting to actually carry in public. Especially since every place will be different and also the laws are subject to change.

reply to post by Ben81


I know. It is ridiculous isn't it?
Lot's of things I long for from the old days.
Armed citizenry isn't one of them.
Everyone thinks the Civil War is still going strong.


Odds you will need a gun to protect yourself are 1 in 418.
Paranoid much?

Justice statistics, the odds of being a victim of a completed or attempted robbery in a year in the US are 1 in 419.1. Those are about the same odds (1 in 418.7) that an employed person 16 or older in Texas is an insurance sales agent.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Ben81

 

I know. It is ridiculous isn't it?
Lot's of things I long for from the old days.
Armed citizenry isn't one of them.
Everyone thinks the Civil War is still going strong.


Odds you will need a gun to protect yourself are 1 in 418.
Paranoid much?

Justice statistics, the odds of being a victim of a completed or attempted robbery in a year in the US are 1 in 419.1. Those are about the same odds (1 in 418.7) that an employed person 16 or older in Texas is an insurance sales agent.

edit on 25-6-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

While it's nice that you bothered to add a link with referenced statistics about robbery, that isn't the only violent crime going on in the streets. You name it, it's happening. That increases your statistics quite a lot when you add in ALL the violent crimes that weren't robbery related that might not have happened if the victim had been carrying a gun.

Yea, it would be spiffy if we could ALL get along. There's just some people who can't play nice and don't care about the rules. I'd rather have a sane citizen with a gun than an insane criminal carrying one.

The first step in reclaiming our rights and power is knowledge. This man was obviously very knowledgeable. I tried this same thing for "being parked suspiciously" but did not ask for a supervisor. They won.

Hurray for the good guys. Boo on poorly trained copper.

Justice statistics, the odds of being a victim of a completed or attempted robbery in a year in the US are 1 in 419.1. Those are about the same odds (1 in 418.7) that an employed person 16 or older in Texas is an insurance sales agent.

What are the odds that if someone is killed in a robbery that they get their life back, I would say zero.

Originally posted by zarp3333
The first step in reclaiming our rights and power is knowledge. This man was obviously very knowledgeable. I tried this same thing for "being parked suspiciously" but did not ask for a supervisor. They won.

"being parked suspiciously"

Did you get arrested or just asked to move on? Was a public place?

THIS IS AWESOME

reply to post by WhatAreThey

In other words: All the cop had to do was lie and proceed to violate a citizen's rights after the cop got the dispatch that someone called in to report LEGAL ACTIVITY.

Pretty much, yes.

He could have stated there were reports he was "waving the gun around", which is illegal. Does anyone have immediate access to the 911 logs? What about the police telephone logs? To his credit, the cop did not do this. He simply wanted to make sure everything was legal.

I have always been a supporter of citizens rights against police brutality or abuse. I still am. But there is a limit where the citizen becomes the aggressor. What I saw in that film was someone who obviously was ready for this particular situation: he was well-versed in specific law for this particular situation, he was uncooperative in the extreme, he was equipped with a camera (quite possibly a hidden camera based on the shot angles and frame size), and he was ready for a legal fight. I saw a cop who is not a lawyer (hence probably not making millions of dollars a year) but is trying to investigate a complaint as is his job, in spite of the citizen's attitude, and who still maintained his demeanor.

If one's rights are violated, the time for enforcing those rights via legal wording is in a court of law.

It is easy to second-guess this situation after the fact, comfortable in the knowledge that the gun-toter was not intending to do harm. But the officer does not know this. All he knows is: here is someone with a gun; he has the physical ability to hurt me or others if he so chooses; my job is to make sure he does not do so. He wants to know who he is dealing with and what the situation is. That is the reality of open carry, and it is something many of us accept as a necessary part of carrying a weapon openly.

Incidentally, I would expect the same treatment if I had my machete hanging off my hip. It's not as much about gun rights as it is about public safety.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by Ark005

 

I can't say what the intent of the man was, but I would bet that he would have been more than happy to have an incident to bring the lack of knowledge and treatment of the cops to the public's attention.

While I am all for open carry, it is this sort of incident that seems to be a case for concealed carry without a permit. There is no difference in carry except that when carrying open, the uneducated or conditioned masses react and then take up police resources.

I hope that the cops use this incident as a teachable moment. I would also like to see the cops question the callers a bit. Inform them of the legal right to open carry and then question if knowing that, the behavior or manner being carried suggest a dangerous or threatening individual.

edit on 24-6-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

agree.... and on top of thet ..

People who are in fear of guns are already the victims because of their fear!

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by WhatAreThey
I would think that anyone who open carries would be able to spout off 4 or 5 different rulings. In fact, visit an open-carry gun forum and see for yourself and how much these people put up with just to exercise their rights.

Are the guys in the open carry forum as annoying as this guy was?

Once again, Who open carries? This guy most likely walked up and down the street (until some old lady called the cops and said there a man with a gun in the street) just to play his street corner lawyer game on some cop.

No one seriously open carries...give me a break.... Well they do in Alaska during Salmon season, but I don't think that was Alaska...

Are you judging the validity of individual rights which are guaranteed by our constitution just because not a lot of people exercise them? As an American, that is a piss-poor attitude to have.

I don't have problems with people carrying but this guy knowingly and arrogantly made his gun visible to the public. While it is true that it seems he did not commit a crime I have no issues with the cop doing his job.

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by zarp3333
The first step in reclaiming our rights and power is knowledge. This man was obviously very knowledgeable. I tried this same thing for "being parked suspiciously" but did not ask for a supervisor. They won.

"being parked suspiciously"

Did you get arrested or just asked to move on? Was a public place?

edit on 6/25/2012 by roadgravel because: typo

Yeah, I had this happen to me once as well. I was parked in a bank parking lot across the street from a fast food joint because I had just ordered a chicken sandwich and parked my car under a tree to avoid the heat.

Next thing I know, two cops have their guns drawn on me and are yelling at me to put my hands on the steering wheel.

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
but this guy knowingly and arrogantly made his gun visible to the public.

Do you even understand the idea of "open carry"? ... Open=visible.

Originally posted by TheRedneck

To his credit, the cop did not do this. He simply wanted to make sure everything was legal.

Giving credit to a cop for NOT lying. That's great.

What I saw in that film was someone who obviously was ready for this particular situation: he was well-versed in specific law for this particular situation, he was uncooperative in the extreme, he was equipped with a camera (quite possibly a hidden camera based on the shot angles and frame size), and he was ready for a legal fight.

God forbid someone is aware of their rights and takes a stand against a so-called authority figure attempting to trample on them.

If one's rights are violated, the time for enforcing those rights via legal wording is in a court of law.

That is absurd. If you valued yourself or your own life, you would enforce YOUR OWN rights when they needed to be enforced. I sincerely hope people don't teach their daughters to comply with rape because the time to enforce her rights are in court!

Did you know that the Indiana governor just recently signed a bill into law giving private citizens the right to use deadly force against police officers by putting them in the same legal standing as private citizens when performing crimes? Did you know that it was signed into law because a recent court case uncovered the reality that a man could be in his house, have a cop bust in without a warrant, rape his wife and/or daughter, and the man would have absolutely no legal standing to defend himself, his wife, or his property against the cop? True story.

It is easy to second-guess this situation after the fact, comfortable in the knowledge that the gun-toter was not intending to do harm. But the officer does not know this. All he knows is: here is someone with a gun; he has the physical ability to hurt me or others if he so chooses; my job is to make sure he does not do so. He wants to know who he is dealing with and what the situation is. That is the reality of open carry, and it is something many of us accept as a necessary part of carrying a weapon openly.

The fact of the matter is that anyone has the physical ability to hurt people, and people do it all the time WITHOUT guns. Calling the cops to investigate an innocent person who is exercising his rights to open-carry is along the same lanes of someone calling the cops on an innocent black man just because they are scared of black people. It's wrong on many levels - even if statistics, true or false, point that blacks commit more violent or open-carriers have a propensity to rob people at gunpoint.

Incidentally, I would expect the same treatment if I had my machete hanging off my hip. It's not as much about gun rights as it is about public safety.

That's not surprising considering that you've clearly illustrated that you don't care much for individual rights.

Constitution grants the right to bear arms. It, however, does not grant the right to be a prick.

I hate guys like this. They set a bad precedent, and do nothing to help already bad relations between LEO and the general public.

reply to post by Ben81


Same thing happened to a friend the other day. My friend was pulled over he told the cop he had a gun in the glove compartment (legal here) and the cop kept him and called in back up. When an older cop arrived he just rolled his eyes and let my friend go. Before he left the younger cop had the audacity to suggest he didn't carry it anymore!

Originally posted by mee30
But instead you want to blame the guy for knowing more than the cop? Oh I'm sure he's really sorry about that!

The guy was within his rights...well within his rights. I just find it is silly to open carry around Portland. So he walks the streets with a gun on his hip...he can't go into a single business he can't do much, but parade around with his gun.

His attitude does fit Portland well and the cops there deal with the "your stepping on my freedom" routinely, so we have some guy who open carries only for the purpose that he can, and most likely enjoyed his little confrontation with the cops.

I agree he found the cop he was looking for, one that wasn't use to this situation, and one that most likely follows some typical pattern when he stops a vehicle when asking for an ID. The gun guy spouting off rulings did nothing for the situation because the cop most likely didn't study up on those rulings, but the cop didn't escalate anything and his more experienced supervisor came and handled it as he should.

All I'm saying is I find the gun guys main purpose was to aggressively engage the cops on his rights and film it.