The actual Beast's Mark of the NWO, how it will come in, Satan's last days deceiption (testing you

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


That was very enlightening, much obliged.

Might I ask, that is your view regarding the 'divine plan'?

Also, when Jesus was crucified, why did he say; "Father, forgive me, they do not understand" if Jesus is God himself?

Just curious. :-)

Originally posted by ABeing
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

That was very enlightening, much obliged.

Might I ask, that is your view regarding the 'divine plan'?

Also, when Jesus was crucified, why did he say; "Father, forgive me, they do not understand" if Jesus is God himself?

Just curious. :-)

edit on 7-3-2013 by ABeing because: (no reason given)

Sorry for my crap grammar and spelling mistakes in my last reply, I just re-read what I wrote! I hope you understood what I was saying about the Tower of Babel
.......

Luke 23:24 And Jesus said, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And parting his garments among them, they cast lots.

Are you referring to this verse? Both Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are God...they are one and the same but manifest/are expressed differently. Jesus was in frequent communication with His Father so it is not too out of the ordinary that Jesus is saying to the Father not to hold this thing they do against Jesus against their record especially that it was foretold to happen in prophecy.

Psalm 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots for my clothing.

What they did actually was a proof that Jesus was the foretold of Messiah.

Of course the Father already knew this was foretold as well but God likes us to communicate with Him about what is going on in our lives even when He already knows what is going on...it is about building relationship with Him
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You are going to have to explain better what you mean by the "Divine plan"....are you asking about what the purpose of our creation is? Or what God's plan for us is after this creation is over? Or God's plan to solve the sin problem and defeat Satan? God has many plans that would be considered Divine, he even has a Divine plan for each one of us so I am not exactly sure what angle you want me to answer on..???

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


I can't remember if it was you or someone else who mentioned the prophesies of Ellen White but I wanted to comment on this. Ellen White has already been exposed as a false prophetess so you should not be following her predictions as if it were the Word of God. If a prophet is ever wrong about anything even the slightest detail they are declared a false prophet from that moment on. Ellen White has many historical errors in her writings. SDA has many things right but like the Mormon's and their holy book of Mormon it's wrong doctrine.

Originally posted by mplsfitter539
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

I can't remember if it was you or someone else who mentioned the prophesies of Ellen White but I wanted to comment on this. Ellen White has already been exposed as a false prophetess so you should not be following her predictions as if it were the Word of God. If a prophet is ever wrong about anything even the slightest detail they are declared a false prophet from that moment on. Ellen White has many historical errors in her writings. SDA has many things right but like the Mormon's and their holy book of Mormon it's wrong doctrine.

Let's see, I show who the beast was through scripture. I showed what the beast's mark was by the words straight from the beast. I showed what God's mark is from scripture. I showed that under similar circumstances in scripture (the cause of the plagues in Egypt) that the same reason for why the plagues were given during the Exodus is the same reason that that they are given in the Tribulation in Revelation. So when Ellen White or anyone with a brain says that God's mark is the Sabbath and a law is going to come in that prevents people from keeping the Sabbath (just like in Egypt) then it is not "wrong doctrine" from a "false prophet", it is common sense from anyone who has studied scripture. You comments show that you have not read through the thread with any sense of thoroughness and that is offensive to me. You don't know what you are talking about but just want to throw out some nonsensical comments.

If you want to get into a theology debate on any Adventist doctrine that I am happy to do so....but I warn you, all Adventist doctrine is correct, fully backed up by scripture and all that is going to happen is you being showed where you are wrong (and thus a tool for the way you have presented your comments). I am interested in people who express opinions showing that they have read what I have written and want me to explain something that is not clear to them. If you want to get high and mighty with what is Truth then expect to be shown where you actually stand.

You present what SDA theology is wrong and present you alternative...

Also tell me how many Ellen White books you have actually read to come to the opinion that she is a false prophet

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


I mostly, agree with everything you have written in you OP. I have been looking into Daniels dream and the 4th beast compare to the beast described in revelation 13:1

The 4th Beast in Daniels dream is the same beast described in revelation 13:1

Daniel 7:7

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Revelation 13:1

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

If you first just considder the Beast you can see that they are the same Beast. It is the head and the horns that change on this beast..
Daniel 7:8

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn,

This little horn can only come up when three of the horns on Daniels 4th beast are plucked.

These are the ten horns on Daniels 4th Beast: The Roman Empier

1.Anglosaxons.
2.Franks.
3.Suevi.
4.Visigoths.
5.Burgundians.
6.Alamanni.
7.Ostrogoths.
8.Lombards.
9.Heruli.
10.Vandals.

These are the tree that are said to be plucked by the little horn:
1. 493 AD the Heruli.
2. 534 AD the Vandals.
3. 538 AD the Ostrogoths.

These are the horns that are left:
1.Anglosaxons.
2.Franks.
3.Suevi.
4.Visigoths.
5.Burgundians.
6.Alamanni.
7.Lombards.

8.The little horn. The Vatican City State.

The 8th horn must be among the ten on the first beat of revelation 13:1

Question:
Who are the other two horns that must make up the ten horns and ten crowns on the first beast of revelation13:1?

How would you explain the transformation from Daniels 4th beast to the first beast of revelatiion 13:1?

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

My comment was not meant as a personal assault on you or the SDA organization. As I said before SDA has many things right but to promote and revere someone as a prophet who has historically had errors in their stream of alleged prophecies is just not responsible. A prophet by definition cannot ever be wrong. Once said prophet is exposed in error the so called or self proclaimed prophet looses all status. IMO a prophet is defined by 100% accuracy and any error disqualifies the credibility. If I am wrong about this I would be interested in the scriptures which prove to show that Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and any other prophet of the Holy Bible are in any error what so ever. My point is simply that error is clear evidence of a false prophet. If you want to prove or make your point don't quote the words of a false prophet, stick to the facts of the biblical prophets whose records are flawlessly impeccable. I did not mean to offend you and I am sorry that you perceived my comments in that way.

reply to post by spy66

The 4th Beast in Daniels dream is the same beast described in revelation 13:1

Correct. I see you have provided texts that link blasphemy and pompous words. The 7 heads in the Revelation 13:1, 2 description though is showing that is it an amalgamation of elements from Babylon (mouth of of a lion, first beast of Dan. 7), Medo-Persia (feet of Bear, second beast of Dan. 7), Greece (like a leopard, third beast of dan. 7) and the 10 horns from the 4th beast of Dan. 7. If you count the heads in the 4 beast in Dan. 7 you will see there are 7 in total, 1+1+4+1 = 7.

The 10 horns on the Beast from the sea in Rev. 13 is only symbolic of the fact that elements of the Roman Catholic religion find its origins from the Pagan Roman empire (the 4th beast where the 10 horns come from). Just as the RCC has elements about the religion that derive from Babylon (the fish mouth hats for instance), Persia (sun worship in Mithraism), and Greece (elements of Greek philosophy). This whole area could be extensively backed up with much evidence but for the purposes of answer you I will just say that you don't need to know specifically what the 10 horns are on the Beast from the Sea, just from the 4th beast in Dan. 7 instead.
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Another key element that links the sea beast to the little horn power is the main time period of its rule.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that liveth forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things

In Daniel 7, as Gabriel interprets the dream for Daniel, we see this 'time, times and the dividing of time' reference made when talking about this 'little horn' that is introduced to us in Daniel 7:8. Daniel 12:7 uses this same time period and says that it is a man which was upon the waters of the river (drawing a link to beast from the sea). How we can draw the conclusion that the whore of Babylon is related to this little horn and man on the waters is the following verse.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

some additional info on 1260 days, 42 months and time, times and a half

Nebuchadnezzar's dream of a statue/image of with:
- head of gold
- chest and arms of silver
- belly and thighs of bronze
- legs of iron
- feet partly of iron and partly of clay

In Daniel 2:38 Daniel tells the Babylonian king that he is represented as the head of gold. He then proceeds to tell of kingdoms that would arise after successively after Babylon that will rule over the earth.

In Daniel 7 now it talks about 4 beasts:
- a lion with two wings (Dan. 7:4)
- a bear raised up on one side with 3 ribs between its mouth (Dan. 7:5)
- leopard with 4 wings and 4 heads (Dan. 7:6)
- a dreadful beast with iron teeth, trampling to pieces everything (Dan. 7:7)
. We know that these 4 beasts can be linked to the kingdoms that would arise from Daniel 2's image because of this verse.

Daniel 7:23 So he said: 'The fourth animal will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, different from all the kingdoms. It will devour the entire earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

We also note the iron legs links with the iron teeth.

And we know it is referring to the kingdom of Rome designated as the legs of iron because of the matching descriptions:

Daniel 2:40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom, as strong as iron. Just as all things are broken to pieces and shattered by iron, so it will shatter and crush everything.

In Daniel 8 we read about 'a Ram with 2 horns, one higher than the other and the higher one came up last' (Dan. 8:3). Angel Gabriel interprets this for Daniel and says:

Daniel 8:20 As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.

The male goat that is next described, which had a notable horn between the eyes (Alexander the Great, verse.5). In verse 8 we read the large horn was broken (the death of Alexander) and in its place 4 notable horns came up (the 4 generals that I have mentioned in a previous post). We confirm this analysis with Gabriel's interpretation:

Daniel 8:21 The hairy male goat is the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is its first king.

Now we will talk about the 10 horns that come out of the forth beast's head (the legs of iron) that will represent the kingdom present (feet of iron and clay) until the return of the Ancient of Days (Daniel 7:22), aka the end of time.

We know that from the following text comparison that the blasphemies spoken against God by the beast from the sea of Revelation 13 is the same as this little horn 'speaking great words against the most High' for the same time period

Revelation 13:5 Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And he was given authority to do whatever he wanted for forty-two months.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where God had prepared a place for her so that she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

We know from the study of the 'woman' symbol that this corresponds with 'the saints of the most high'.

- Time = 1 year, times = 2 years, dividing of time/half a time = 6 months/0.5 years.................total 3.5 years or 42 months
- 1260 days divided by the Jewish calendar length of 360 days = 3.5 years

In talking about the whore of Babylon with Daniel as our key (sealed book that will be open to our understanding near the end) we see we are well on the right path to identifying the timing of the whore from history.

Daniel 7:24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

We note a few significant things in the above text. The 10 kings out of the fallen Roman Empire are present all at once and come out first, then the horn that subdues 3 of the kings comes up, he is also different in characteristic that the other original 10.

The Huns, the Ostrogoths, the Visigoths, the Franks, the Vandals, the Suevi, the Burgundians, the Heruli, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Lombards. These divisions have ever since been spoken of as the ten kingdoms of the Roman empire.
Smith, Uriah (2012-05-26). Daniel and the Revelation (Kindle Locations 1677-1679). . Kindle Edition.


3. THE TEN DIVISIONS OF ROME.
The ten kingdoms which arose out of the old Roman empire, are symbolized by the ten horns on the fourth beast of Daniel 7. All agree on this point; but there has not been entire unanimity among expositors as to the names of the kingdoms which constituted these divisions. Some name the Huns as one of these divisions, others put the Alemanni in place of the Huns. That the reader may see the general trend of what has been written on this subject, the following facts are presented:

- Machiavelli, the historian of Florence, writing simply as a historian, names the Huns as one of the nations principally concerned in the breaking up of the Roman empire. Among those who have written on this point with reference to the prophecy, may be mentioned, Berengaud, in the ninth century; Mede, 1586- 1638; Bossuet, 1627-1704; Lloyd, 1627-1717; Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727; Bishop Newton, 1704-1782; Hales, ---1821: Faber, 1773-1854.

Of these nine authorities, eight take the position that the Huns were one of the ten kingdoms; of these eight, two, Bossuet and Bishop Newton, followed by Dr. Clarke, have both the Huns and the Alemanni; only one, Mede, omits the Huns and takes the Alemanni. Thus eight favor the view that the Huns were represented by one of the horns; two, while not rejecting the Huns, consider the Alemanni one of the horns; one rejects the Huns and takes the Alemanni. Scott and Barnes, in their commentaries, and Oswald, in his Kingdom That Shall Not Be Moved, name the Huns.
Smith, Uriah (2012-05-26). Daniel and the Revelation (Kindle Locations 11191-11203). . Kindle Edition.

1. The Huns which is now called Hungary (but included parts of Germany, the Balkans and Ukraine)
2. The Visigoths which is now called Spain
3. The Franks which is now called France
4. The Sueves which is now called Portugal
5. The Burgundians which is now called Switzerland
6. The Anglo Saxons which is now called England
7. The Lombards which is now called Italy
8. The Ostrogoths
9. The Vandal
10. The Herulis

The description in Dan. 7 is concerning the timing of when empires will arise but the description in Revelation 13 is concerning the distinguishing elements that make up the religio-political power Papal system. Thus, being able to identify the papal system from is pagan roots outside of the Bible.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Thank you for a informative answer.

Your version does explain how the beast in Daniels 4th beast had seven heads.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The Catholic Church are the fragments of the 4 beasts in Daniels dream all they way back to babylon. It is easy to see on all the symbolism within the Vatican City State and on what the pope wears.

I have one more question i am very unshure about when conserning the time line in all this. Daniel 7:8

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn,

Now read this:

ROME, Feb. 11.--The Pope is again an independent sovereign ruler, as he was throughout the Middle Ages, though his temporal realm, established today, is the most microscopic independent State in the world, and probably the smallest in all history. — THE NEW YORK TIMES, Tuesday, February 12, 1929.

Could this event be related to this verse: revelation 13:3

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The time line does fit if the last of the three horns were plucked in 538 AD.

For 59 years the Pope was a virtual prisoner in the Vatican, never leaving it until the pact was signed, resolving the "Roman question". Known as the Lateran Treaty or Lateran Concordat of 1929, this was the momentous event prophesied in the book of Revelation:

Even Catholic newspapers (The Catholic Advocate) reporting the event declared the "wound" to be healed by the Lateran Treaty.

Now here is a piece of art This piece of art ''The Resurrection'' The Vatican commissioned Mr. Fazzini to provide a work for its modern auditorium. The result was ''The Resurrection,'' a statue depicting Jesus rising from a nuclear bomb crater. This piece of art was first built in wood in 1930. And later fashioned almost exclusively in metal, particularly bronze. If you consider what took place in 1929. this image is not of Jesus. But of a beast that claims to be Vicar Of Christ.



If you look at the head. That is not Jesus. That is a beast.

reply to post by spy66

Your version does explain how the beast in Daniels 4th beast had seven heads.

The 4th Beast in Daniel has one head. The little horn power that comes out of the head of the 4th beast is the same power though as the beast of the sea in Revelation 13 with 7 heads (the 7 heads don't have the same meaning as Dan. 7 which designate an empire, now the heads designate 7 hills/mountains).

Rev. 17:9 And here [5602] [is] the mind [3563] which [3588] hath [2192] [5723] wisdom [4678]. The seven [2033] heads [2776] are [1526] [5748] seven [2033] mountains [3735], on [1909] which [0846] the woman [1135] sitteth [2521] [5736] [3699] source

2521. κάθημαι káthēmai kath'-ay-mahee from 2596; and ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of 1476); to sit down; figuratively, to remain, reside:--dwell, sit (by, down).

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 4240-4243). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

While commonly translated as "sits" on 7 hills we see from the Greek word it can be translated as "resides by"

3699. ὅπου hópou hop'-oo from 3739 and 4225; what(-ever) where, i.e. at whichever spot:--in what place, where(-as, -soever), whither (+ soever).

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 5978-5979). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

So put that together (2521 and 3699) we have a woman (which represents a church) in a spot/place residing by 7 mountains/hills.

Does the Vatican (Roman Church) reside by a place where there is 7 hills? Yes

Could this event be related to this verse: revelation 13:3

The wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini granted the papacy back its power and papal states again.

source

The Roman question tonight was a thing of the past, and the Vatican was at peace with Italy... In affixing the autographs to the memorable document healing the wound of many years, extreme cordiality was displayed on both sides"
-The San Francisco Chronicle. Feb. 11, 1929

Rome, June 7.--From 11 o' clock this morning there was another sovereign independent State in the world. At that time Premier Mussolini, as Italian Foreign Minister representing King Victor Emmanuel--the first Italian Premier ever to cross the threshold of the Vatican--exchanged with Cardinal Gasparri, Papal Secretary of State, representing Pope Pius XI, ratifications of the treaties signed at the Lateran Palace on Feb. 11. By that simple act the sovereign independent State of Vatican City came into existence.
-New York Times July 7, 1929

The time line does fit if the last of the three horns were plucked in 538 AD.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten [6236] horns [7162] out of [4481] this kingdom [4437] [are] ten [6236] kings [4430] [that] shall arise: [6966] and another [0321] shall rise [6966] after them; [0311] and he shall be diverse [8133] from [4481] the first, [6933] and he shall subdue [8214] three [8532] kings. [4430] source

8214. shəphal shef-al'; (Aramaic) corresponding to 8213; to depress or sink (expectation figuratively, to humiliate, intransitive or transitive):—abase, humble, put down, subdue.

Strong, James (2011-05-14). Strong's Hebrew Dictionary of the Bible (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 31086-31089). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

This word that is translated as subdue will be retorted by Catholic sympathisers by saying that the Ostrogoths were not fully destroyed in 538AD. This is true but the translation doesn't mean completely wiped out. So you are very much correct in using this 538 AD date...they were definitely humbled!

Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. (These "Arian type" nations would not agree with the popes plans) The Catholic emperor Zeno (474-491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heruls in 492. And the catholic emperor Justinian (527-565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and signifcally broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus were Daniels three horns - The Heruls, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths - "plucked up by the roots." -C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares Vol. 1, p. 129

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Thank you very much. This helps me put things together this far

Looks like Dan is coming up...
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by freechristian


You do realise the the annunaki introduced in the Enuma Elish is BS...that the Gilamesh Epic is BS...that Noah's ark has already been found and been made a national park out of it by the Turkish government like 3 decades ago??? Please do not pollute this thread with your posted vids that come which no explanation, link to nothing being discussed or have so scriptural foundation.

reply to post by ElohimJD


I thought you would at least put up a bit more of an argument against what I said on the Trinity and the annual festivals. So SDAs are the representatives of the true teachings of God after-all then or what, seeing that I have dispatched your arguments?