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The actual Beast's Mark of the NWO, how it will come in, Satan's last days deceiption (testing you

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:26 PM
reply to post by On the Edge

In my opinion,there is a very real power in the world today that is never included in the vast amount of prophecies,(at least as far as I can tell),and that is the role of Zionism,and I mean the political force of it and it's influence over nations,etc...

I will put together a post for you on Kharzarian Zionism and how this is different to orthodox Judaism, how this 'Zionism' is still under the umbrella of Jesuit control and how the state of Israel was preplanned from 1871 from secret society forces to heard the Jews back to their homeland (WW2) so they are in position for the planned WW3 (ala 'war on terror' which was set to be between Judeo-Christian culture verses Islam and to spread internationally). The gist of the information will show that the controllers (both in Israel and America) are mostly 'fake' Jews and are used as a front to redirect attention and animosity.
edit on 28-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:23 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

I understand what you're saying,but are you sure it's the Jesuits doing the controlling,and are the Jesuits perhaps "crypto-jews",as they are referred to sometimes?

Revelation 3:9 talks about the "synagogue of Satan,those who say they are Jews but are not",which to me would describe Zionists. At least for my understanding today in light of what appears to be true.

You are well informed,but maybe there is another layer to peel back?

posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:20 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

After looking at your evidence, I disagree with you about "Sunday" being the Mark of the Beast as the Bible says it's something physical on your right arm or forehead. I also disagree about the Catholic Church & Pope being the Antichrist as the bible says he's an Arab man and all popes I know of are European.

posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:57 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

I am fully able to discuss all the issues you have outlined...
...but perhaps you can begin here by actually comparing your outline of days...
...against a dual lunar and Julian calendar and explian how it fits with your theory.

Here are the twelve criteria that must be met for the crucifixion...

It must be in the spring in the month following the Barley harvest.
In the month Nisan (Abib). Deut. 16:1
On the 14th day of that month. Lev 23:5
On the sixth day of the week. John 19:31
On a 'Preparation Day' (day before the Sabbath) Matt 27:62
On a night of a full moon.
Coinciding with a Passover. Lev 23:5
The beginning of the feast of unleavened bread. Ex 12:18
Coinciding with a weekly Sabbath. Matt 28:1-2, John 19:31-32
The Wave Sheaf Offering and Resurrection day must coincide. Lev. 23:9, Mark 16:9
During the reign of Pontius Pilate Matt 27:2

The biggest problem I see for you is that you have Jesus still in the tomb after His resurrection.
edit on 28/6/12 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:17 AM
Interesting read, thank you for sharing!

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:49 AM

Originally posted by joesomebody
you can't just take bits and pieces of the NT.
You accept one part, you have to accept all of it

But that's exactly what the NT is, bits and pieces with
most of the original books left out.
The mark of the beast is 'one eyed'

Originally posted by polya
as the bible says . . . (not worth repeating)
obviously you have not read the bible.


edit on 29/6/12 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:17 AM
reply to post by polya

After looking at your evidence, I disagree with you about "Sunday" being the Mark of the Beast as the Bible says it's something physical on your right arm or forehead.

I don't know if you are trying very hard with this one with the looks of your reply, considering I have already mentioned how 'in your hand or on your forehead' is explained elsewhere.

How literally do you think one should take it when so much of Revelation is symbolic. Lets look at a passage with similar wording (Hebrew parallelism) taken from the Old Testament and see how silly it looks when you take it took literally.

Concerning the keeping on the Divine Law

Deuteronomy 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes[foreheads, NIV 1984 edition].

and again

Deuteronomy 11:8 Therefore you shall keep every commandment that I have commanded you today...
...18 Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes [foreheads, NIV 1984 edition]

Do you think this is what God meant about laying these words in ones heart and soul? Don't you think God is trying to say, let His Divine Law manifest itself in your character, in how you act (hand) and how you think (forehead, pre-frontal lobe is the rational processing part of the brain)?

Picture of tefillin being worn

Exodus 13: 9 (and verse16) And it shall be for a sign unto you upon your hand, and for a memorial before your eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in your mouth: for with a strong hand has the LORD brought you out of Egypt.

Ezekiel 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in its midst.

Revelation 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

When God talks symbolically about putting a seal in the foreheads of His people in Revelation do you think that means he is going to come down and stamp an alternative bar-code or a microchip on our foreheads too?

Revelation 13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead

Why is the Beast's mark received either in the hand OR forehead? Could the beast's mark be some kind of counterfeit of God's Law (perhaps a specific law which shows your allegiance to Him specifically) as the Old Testament talks about God's Law to be placed in those areas of the body (figuratively)?

ElohimJD, was able to understand it correctly, as shown in this post

The mark is on your hands (what you do) and in your foreheads (how you think).

And I made a full post comment about the mark in your forehead and hand in a practical sense here already.

The Bible never says it is something physical

I also disagree about the Catholic Church & Pope being the Antichrist as the bible says he's an Arab man and all popes I know of are European.

There are a number of players playing a part in the End Days Test. There is the Beast from the Sea (aka Little Horn of Daniel 7), then the Beast from the Earth, as well as the Dragon [Satan] and False Prophet.

I never once labeled any of these specifically 'anti-christ' although they all in fact are 'against Christ'. Please don't get confused with terminologies. Which particular 'anti-Christ' of these bunch are you referring to because the most obvious one is in fact the Dragon who would be the one performing this counterfeit second coming of Jesus and masquerading about that he is Christ.

The information I present in the first post of this thread (with the follow up source link that you should read) are the characteristics solely of the Revelation 13 Beast of the Sea (Daniel 7 Little Horn power). This particular religio-political persecuting power is shown definitely to be the Papal power and we find in Daniel 7 that the 'Little Horn' comes up out of the Fourth Beast of Daniel 7 which we all know to be the ancient Roman Empire.

To disagree with this understanding of the Sea Beast (Papacy) whose 'mark' the Beast of the Earth (America) will seek to enforce upon people would be to disagree with basically every major protestant reformer throughout history:

By 900 A.D., "Tergandus, Bishop of Treves, called the Pope antichrist, yea, a wolf, and Rome, Babylon" (Martyrs Mirror, 5th English edition, p. 240).

In the tenth century, Arnulphus, Bishop of Orleans, called the Pope Antichrist, in a full council at Rheims (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of Piedmont, 1821, p. 229).

The Waldensian treatise titled the Noble Lesson, dated 1100 A.D., stated: "Antichrist, the predicted murderer of the Saints, hath already appeared in his true character, seated monarchally in the seven-hilled city." In 1120 or 1160 A.D., A Treatise Concerning Antichrist identified the Pope of Rome as the Antichrist. George Faber identifies this as a production of Peter the Valdo (Faber, pp. 379-384).

In 1206, the Albigenses made the following confession: "That the Church of Rome was not the spouse of Christ, but the Church of confusion, drunk with the blood of the martyrs. That the polity of the Church of Rome was neither good nor holy, nor established by Jesus Christ" (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, 1821 edition, first published in 1692, p. 178).

Throughout the Reformation era, Rome was considered the Mother of Harlots. On September 9, 1560, Pastor Jean Louis Paschale of Calabria, just before he was burned alive in the presence of Pope Pius IV in Rome, turned to the Pope and "arraigned him as the enemy of Christ, the persecutor of his people, and the Anti-Christ of Scripture, and concluded by summoning him and all his cardinals to answer for their cruelties and murders before the throne of the Lamb" (J.A. Wylie, History of the Waldenses, c1860, p. 120).

William Tyndale identified the Pope as Antichrist in his treatise "The Practice of Prelates" and in his Preface to the 1534 edition of the New Testament. Many of the early Protestant Bibles contained artwork that portrays the Scarlet Woman of Revelation 17, and identifies the Roman Catholic Church as this apostate religion. In his 1893 work titled Union with Rome, Bishop Christopher Wordsworth of the Church of England stated the view which prevailed among Protestants at that time: "... we tremble at the sight, while we read the inscription, emblazoned in large letters, `Mystery, Babylon the Great,' written by the hand of St. John, guided by the Holy Spirit of God, on the forehead of the Church of Rome."

John Wesley's Notes; But he that had the mark, namely, the name of the first beast, or the number of his name - The name of the beast is that which he bears through his whole duration; namely, that of Papa or Pope: the number of his name is the whole time during which he bears this name. Whosoever, therefore, receives the mark of the beast does as much as if he said expressly, "I acknowledge the present Papacy, as proceeding from God;" or, "I acknowledge that what St. Gregory VII. has done, according to his legend, (authorized by Benedict XIII.,) and what has been maintained in virtue thereof, by his successors to this day, is from God." By the former, a man hath the name of the beast as a mark; by the latter, the number of his name. In a word, to have the name of the beast is, to acknowledge His papal Holiness; to have the number of his name is, to acknowledge the papal succession. The second beast will enforce the receiving this mark under the severest penalties. (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible, Revelation 13:17)

During the Reformation, when scripture was exploding off the Protestant printing presses in the common tongue, instead of Latin, it became apparent to students of Bible prophecy that the Antichrist beast and apostate Mystery Babylon of the books of Daniel and Revelation was already on the scene, and had been for over a thousand years! Because of their Bible study, John Wycliff, John Hus, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, John Calvin, John Knox, Huldreich Zwingli, and John Wesley all identified the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church as the Antichrist power and apostate Mystery Babylon, as did many others. If the giants of the Reformation came to this conclusion, some even being burned at the stake for their belief, then when and how did Protestantism abandon the Historicist interpretation and adopt Futurism, where the Antichrist is some unknown unidentified figure off in the future? source

What verse talks about being an Arab man?

edit on 29-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:40 AM
reply to post by troubleshooter

Firstly it is not 'my theory' of the date. The date is determined from the 69 and 70 week prophecy in Daniel of when the Messiah would be anointed and cut off mid week. Major historians agree with it being 31AD, the information I used to argue the case was from a Baptist source. I don't know what you are trying to invalidate here, you are either trying to invalidate the Bible as something we can trust or you are trying to invalidate Ellen White specifically because in her description she calls the day the sabbath when it was Passover which is known to be called a shadow sabbath/High-sabbath (Col. 2:16) as this is what the festival days were interchangeably called here kept under the ceremonial law.

I don't know if you are Christian but my answer is to confirm both the Bible and Ellen White as being in line with each other.

For simplicity I am going to designate 6pm as sundown (evening) and therefore the start of a new day and 6am to be sunrise.

Leviticus 23:32
New International Version (©1984)
It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."

New Living Translation (©2007)
This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown on the tenth day."

Therefore on 31AD Tuesday the 24th at 6pm officially Preparation Day began, and it is at this time Jesus holds the Last Supper (a day early). Jesus has His various trials, flogging and crucifixion occurring between the hours of 6pm Tuesday and 6pm Wednesday the 25th. Are you still following me? Match it up with your calendar. so you don't get lost.

On Wednesday the 25th at 6pm (the official time of the start of Passover, known customarily as a sabbath) Jesus is now deceased and resting in the tomb. This is the night the full moon occurs. This is the first night in the grave.

- 6am Thursday to 6pm Thursday the 26th (end of Passover high-Sabbath, first day in resting in grave.
- 6pm Thursday to 6am Friday, second night in resting in grave
- 6am Friday to 6pm Friday, second day resting in grave
- 6pm Friday (start of weekly Sabbath day) to 6am Saturday, third night resting in grave
- 6am Saturday to 6pm Saturday (end of the Sabbath day), third day in the grave.

So Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Matthew 12:40 (of spending 3 days and 3 nights in the earth). Jesus is raised back to life some time between 6pm Saturday the 28th and 6am Sunday the 29th of April 31AD (my guess, 6pm on Saturday)

The Wave Sheaf Offering and Resurrection day must coincide. Lev. 23:9, Mark 16:9

I will given you the benefit of the doubt that you really meant to say Lev. 23:11

Lev. 23:11He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath.

Mark 16:9
New International Version (©1984)
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

New Living Translation (©2007)
After Jesus rose from the dead early on Sunday morning, the first person who saw him was Mary Magdalene, the woman from whom he had cast out seven demons

Your criteria fulfilled here but also sounds like to me the Bible is clearly pointing out the Saturday (Sabbath) is the 7th day of the week and Sunday is the 1st. Looks like the bible is calling into question your theory.

On the sixth day of the week. John 19:31

John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. English Standard Version (©2001)

Sorry, but I am failing to see from your text (and all the other parallel translations where it specifically says the 6th day). The only thing that doesn't agree with your 12 criteria is this because you have added wrongful interpretation outside of the Bible.

What you are getting confused on is that the day before Passover is called the Preparation day. If the crucifixion was on one of the other adjacent years where Passover coincided with occurring on the weekly Sabbath as well then Jesus would never have been resting in the Tomb for three days and three nights. At a minimum it would have been 1 day and one night (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6am and Saturday 6am to Saturday 6pm) or at most 2 days (by generously including Friday 6am to Friday 6pm and Saturday 6pm to Sunday 6am, when it would not make sense to award these extra day and night sections as well). Now you have a big problem with any proposed time other than 31 A.D because no other date will add up to 3 days and nights, especially when we read:

John 20:1 Early on Sunday morning, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and found that the stone had been rolled away from the entrance.

Meaning that the sun had not even come up yet (not yet 6am per say) when Mary discovered the tomb empty. Every criteria of yours is answered except for the crucifixion having to be on the 6th day of the week which I have shown from the verse cited is never mention specifically and therefore not a valid criteria.

Assertion against the Bible and Ellen White debunked methinks....
edit on 29-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 06:42 PM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by RobinB022

Please be specific in your critique...I am happy to show through scripture how the seal of God is the 10 commandments altogether, if one keeps the Divine Law it is impossible for them to receive the beast's mark

The only thing that I said was," According to the Word, Christians are told not to give our own opinion of what a prophetic symbol means. We must allow the Word of God to define it's own symbols. Our private interpretations are useless. " You then say,"I am happy to show .........."

I appreciate your work and would not condemn you for it, however, it would be proper to remind those who look to you to do their own research. We must allow the Word of God to define it's own symbols.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:35 PM
reply to post by RobinB022

I replied back because your post gives the very clear impression that 'my opinion' is not backed up by the bible. I asked for a specific critique because if anyone has a concern with something they find here (much is extremely heavily grounded in scripture) then they are free to raise it, that is the whole point of the thread....discovery of the truth from mutual understand, right. If you look at my responses to people's concerns I give usually very thorough replies.

I have studied bible symbols of prophetic books extensively. Adventist get accused of being buried in Revelation, well, we know it very very well. Your comment seemed more like it was trying to raise doubts through innuendo than actually giving any reason for it. No need to throw unnecessary stones to influence people by social pressure on such a serious topic. People can read, decide and question for themselves
edit on 29-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:16 PM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by RobinB022

I replied back because your post gives the very clear impression that 'my opinion' is not backed up by the bible. I asked for a specific critique because if anyone has a concern with something they find here (much is extremely heavily grounded in scripture) then they are free to raise it, that is the whole point of the thread....discovery of the truth from mutual understand, right. If you look at my responses to people's concerns I give usually very thorough replies.

I have studied bible symbols of prophetic books extensively. Adventist get accused of being buried in Revelation, well, we know it very very well. Your comment seemed more like it was trying to raise doubts through innuendo than actually giving any reason for it. No need to throw unnecessary stones to influence people by social pressure on such a serious topic. People can read, decide and question for themselves
edit on 29-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

People can read, decide and question for themselves

Good enough, and my hope is that we do just that.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:25 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

The prophetic identity of the SDA denomination depends on the following dates...
...457 BC, 27 AD, 31 AD, 34 AD and 1844.

I believe that none of them can be established accurately.

457 BC...

The selection of the 457 BC date for the beginning of the 'seventy sevens'...
...flies in the face of clear scripture.

Daniel 9:24-25 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem..."

Cyrus is the king spoken of in scripture as the one who would rebuild Jerusalem.

“That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.” Isaiah 44:28

It was about 538 BC when Cyrus decreed the captive Hebrews...
...could return to Jerusalem under Zeubbabel’s leadership...
...the restoration was initiated by rebuilding of the temple (Ezra 1).
...the accomplishment of this task is recorded in Ezra 6.

SDA's confuse the decree 'going forth' with the 'execution/completion'.

About 457/458 BC Artaxerxes did decreed that Ezra could lead another group to Jerusalem...
...with finance and temple artifacts...
...and they were specifically authorized to re-establish the judicial system.

No mention is made at this time of a general rebuilding program for the whole of Jerusalem.

About 444BC Artaxerxes issues another decree authorizing Nehemiah to rebuild the walls.

Specifically nominating 457BC to begin an exact chronology does not fit the facts.

There is no biblical or historical reason to prefer the 457BC date...
...SDA’s simply select the 457BC date to fit their own 1844 agenda.

The better date is the decree of Cyrus...
...the decree of Cyrus was issued at the end of the seventy years of captivity (about 538 BC)...
...the decree permitted the rebuilding of the temple...
...but the temple did not build itself...
...the builders working on the temple also built their own homes...
...according to Haggai 1:4 they were living in luxurious homes about 18 years later (approx 520 BC).

It is evident then that physical reconstruction of Jerusalem began as soon as the exiles arrived back from Babylon.

It makes better sense that God would allocate the conditional 490 years from the start of the captives return to Jerusalem...
...rather than wait about 80 more years to begin the count-down...
...that would have effectively doubled Jeremiah's 'desolations of Jerusalem'...
...before reconstruction commenced.

This would mean that the 490 years of conditional time was due to expire about 48 BC...
...but by this time the moral condition of the nation...
...was a long way from the covenant expectations in the prophecy "finish transgression" and "put an end to sin".

I seems then that because of His love and patience for His people...
...God does not act precipitously...
...but extends His forbearance beyond the predicted 'seventy sevens' of His 'determined' grace.

You are not then forced into a specific date for the beginning of Jesus ministry...
...that can not be accurately established anyway...
...or the speculative date of Jesus death or the improbable 'stoning of Stephen' boundary.

The decree of Cyrus is the best fit for the beginning of the 490 year probationary period... does it without doing violence to history or the scriptural text...
...while revealing God's grace and great love for His covenant people.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:25 AM
I applaud your intensity JesuitGarlic and let me add to your arsenal.

You site Rome as the place of power.

Rome was founded on the site of the Altar of Saturn which predated the founding of Rome and was the deity/planet to have a Temple constructed by the Romans upon their founding (on the remnants of the pre-existing one).

Temple of Saturn


The location of the temple is connected to the much older Altar of Saturn, which tradition associates with the god himself founding a settlement on the Capitoline Hill. Construction of the temple is thought to have begun in the later years of the Roman Kingdom under Tarquinius Superbus. Its inauguration by the Consul Titus Lartius took place in the early years of the Republic. The temple was completely reconstructed by Munatius Plancus in 42 BC.

The present ruins represent the third incarnation of the Temple of Saturn, replacing a second incarnation that had been destroyed by the fire of Carinus in 283 AD. The extant inscription on the frieze commemorates the restoration undertaken after the fire.

Following Saturn came Zeus(Jupiter) whose Temple is found on the top of the capital hill while Saturn's is on the base.

Saturn has a hexagon at its pole which is the shape of the 'Star of David' or a hexagon. This hexagon also encodes a 3 dimensional cube, like the black cube holding the Kabba stone of Islam. Muslims circle around the cube just as the rings circle around Saturn.

This 3d cube unfolds into a cross. This is reason for Rome sacrificing people on a cross, it was to the god Saturn, and also the cross which Jesus was sacrificed upon. It is also the symbol of the Catholic Church.

At 2:00 the cube is displayed being unfolded into a cross.

Saturn's North Pole Hexagon Mystery Solved?

The goat with the little horn rising from the seas from revelations is the constellation Capricorn represented as half serpent half goat. Saturn rules the constellation of Capricorn in ancient astrology. It is the same goat which suckled Zeus with the milk being the milky way galaxy. The milky way is the dragon eating its tale of revelations and is also the ourouboros of occult teachings.

And as I was considering, behold, a he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and broke his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

The Ram is Aeries the constellation of Israel.

Aries (astrology)

The Legacy of Judaism
by Rabbi Joel C. Dobin

In the Age of Aries, Israel was born, and the Ram (caught in the thicket by its horns and sacrificed in place of Isaac) became the symbol of salvation. A new faith of fiery adherents and energetic conquest and divine covenant led Israel into its future. and its first house cardinal was Taurus, the symbol of its covenant with the earth, with the land of Israel, with Jerusalem and Zion -- and also the symbol of the eternal challenge that earthiness would present to Israel in its guise of fertility-cult rites, and the seeming success of its detractors in the mundane powers of life.

How then does this connect Rome to Babylon? Babylon also had a favored constellation, which was that of Capricorn the sea goat and to them it represented their tower rising from the seas to high places.

To Be Continued

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:49 AM
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Continuing on to the connections of Rome through Saturn/Capricorn and Babylon.

Whore of Babylon

17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. ["Fornication" is interpreted/translated as "idolatry" in the Amplified Bible (AMP)]
17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written a mystery: BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [King James Version; the New International Version uses "prostitutes" instead of "harlots"].
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sat. [King James Version; the New International Version Bible uses "hills" instead of "mountains"].

Constellation Capricorn

Capricorn Mythology in ancient Sumeria was associated with the planet Saturn and the Mesopotamian god Enki.

The goat-fish is a representation of Enki, seen on Babylonian monuments.

Enki was a god in Mesopotamian legend; later Enki became Ea in Babylonian legend. In the beginning, Enki was the main supreme being of the metropolis of Eridu.

. . .

In ancient Babylonian legend Capricorn was described as the "deity Ea", who was fishtailed. Ea was the “Antelope of the Sea”.

Capricornus is recognized by the name the “Gate of Death” (polar to the Cancer sign, “Gate of Birth“.

The Capricorn was also called a light bearer and was symbolized by an all seeing eye. The all seeing eye was the crown chakra which is represented as purple, the color of Saturn and the Whore of Babylon.

This is the truth of the goat of satanism.

The five pointed star encodes the procession of the sun through the zodiac with 72 degrees between each of the 5 points.

This coincides with the 72 the number of wings of Metatron (Metatron's cube)

But God is not without his own voice in the prophets and warned against this.

Masih ad-Dajjal


According to hadith, Muhammad is said to have prophesied that the Masih ad-Dajjal would be the last of a series of thirty Dajjal or "deceivers" (false prophets).[2]

Muhammad is reported to have said:

... Allah is not one eyed while Messiah, Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape.[3]

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said. "While I was sleeping, I saw myself (in a dream) performing Tawaf around the Ka'ba. Behold, I saw a reddish-white man with lank hair, and water was dropping from his head. I asked, "Who is this?' They replied, 'The son of Mary.' Then I turned my face to see another man with a huge body, red complexion and curly hair and blind in one eye. His eye looked like a protruding out grape. They said (to me), He is Ad-Dajjal." The Prophet added, "The man he resembled most is Ibn Qatan, a man from the tribe of Khuza'a."[4]

From Babylon to Rome the Serpent-Goat Capricorn has maintained consistent symbolism and such it was in the days of the prophets.

Freemasonry is involved in this as they moved from operative to speculative masonry they had in operative preserved the Roman architecture of temple building and moved to philosophy. The printing press loosed the secrets of geometry (Euclid) upon the land which was important in describing the Cube.

Saturn to Zeus, Zeus/Jupiter rules the constellation Sagittarius which rules philosophy and so matches the shift from stone cutting to philosophy of masonry.

The masons mark their years to a different calendar dating back over 6000 years.

The master mason ritual involves a death and rebirth ritual which mimics the Sun rising in Capricorn known as the House of Death to be reborn through the Gate of Birth Cancer.

From Babylon to Rome to Modernity.

I pray your eyes are now open.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:38 AM
reply to post by troubleshooter

What exactly are you trying to do here? I answered your question on:

Do you want to know the one question SDA's can't answer?

I was able to answer correctly in my very first post, then had to post again to explain it in slow-motion for you. You then do not acknowledge I have answered it (only with your silence) or your own mistakes in assumptions and interpretations in the setting of your question. Now straight after I answer it you are deflecting attention or casting doubts on the next thing you can try and muster.

I am happy to try answer your latest question on 457 BC, but I will probably need several hours to research all the angles to answer you sufficiently. I want to know though if this is going to be the established pattern of our communication....You trying to shoot holes through 'SDA' teaching (when so far your questions also target most of Christianity as a whole of the dates they accept too) then me answering it then you doing the next pigeon-hole re-framing of a question right after it.

So what happens to you after I answer this current question and maybe another follow up after that? Do you become SDA after that because I have solved your biggest issues with us, do I just get a never ending barrage of questions that are designed to cause people to doubt the content in my original post (even though it is plainly clear from scripture and quotes from all the relevant parties involved that it is right on the money), or do I end up finding out that you are not even Christian and have no interest of being one?

How about you at least acknowledge what your current belief system is so it is all out in the open

I would like to know what I am facing here causing to divert my attention somewhat off-topic with no apparent end in view....This thread is a very serious topic, it basically represents the culmination of the end agenda of most things going on in the conspiracy sphere, the battle to make a decision for God and have eternal life or to follow man and the coercive satanic forces pushing you to throw away your eternal inheritance (this is the symbolic meaning of the end days Battle of Armageddon). I am not going to let something try and poo-poo the thread on this most important issue if you have a vendetta against SDAs or Christians in general. Understood?
edit on 30-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:03 AM
My Christian friend: I thought you had your dog chipped?
Me: I'm not giving my dog the mark of the beast!

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:47 AM
reply to post by hadriana

This sorta agonizing is where people that follow a written dogma really lose me.

Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or

This thread is a discussion heavily centered on the bible to establish and understand what is written about this important last days test and deception. If you know Christianity with it various denominations then you know that the Bible isn't considered 'dogma' because there is no preconceived established understanding that everyone follows.

The discussion is Bible centered because Christians follow that God gives his people important messages through His Word to keep us with Him through all of earth's time.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

he did not TRUST exterior rigorism, which stated you had to do it just this way for salvation.

This is correct, God wants us to follow His commands because they are written in our heart and because we love Him, not for outward display to show to others that we are worthy because we all fall short of the mark

Or maybe it just isn't what I believe- the day of the week you worship on?

The day is mostly established so that people set aside time in their lives to get to know Him more away from everyday distractions, and to have time to carry out God's plan in your life by trying to reach others. Yes, there is some truth to the matter that what day of the week you worship on doesn't really matter (if you didn't realize what the day actually means to God) which is why Adventists haven't been going around with the hard sell on Sabbath-keeping to everyone over the last 150 odd years. I am giving somewhat of a sell on the Sabbath commandment now (not only because it is expected to be kept by Christians as part of the terms of the New Covenant to receive salvation) because it is well established and pretty readily shown here that it is God's 'mark' and is in opposition to the Beast's 'mark'. Considering that it is my personal belief that there is a very good window of opportunity for the Last Days Great Deception to play out possibly within the next 5 months to 3 years I thought it good to get this information out beforehand.

I don't think it matters if you get dunked in a lake

I tend to agree, as it seemed to have made little to no lasting impact on many of my friends and family that have and for this reason mostly I have refrained myself from what seems to be mostly an outward acknowledgement of faith. God knows my heart and I have already given it to Him, getting 'dunked' will probably occur at a time it was more meaning for me like during the Tribulation Period itself where such an act would be of civil defiance and acknowledgement of my allegiance to God under adversity.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 04:05 AM
reply to post by mellisamouse

I am very glad to hear your reply, but don't keep the information to yourself. Anyone who is reading this thread and can either see the truth of it straight away or can see how it is quiet plausible then please tell others you know about the information, direct them to the thread so they can follow all the source links, discuss the topic with them and research it more yourself.

When you understand the dynamics of the amount of people who actually have this information (Adventist make up perhaps 1% of the Christian population) and have enough knowledge to explain it clearly to others (less than 20% of SDAs) and you realize that this particular message is meant for the whole world in the Last Day Test then you can see what kind of a responsibility someone has to their fellow man to reach as many people as they can with it, as most likely they would have never heard this kind of information before and presented in such a way as shown by many responses on this thread.

If you know this information now, you too then have a responsibility to others with it. Consider as a minimum reaching at least 100-200 people with it as you perceive the 'times' approaching then coming to fruition.
edit on 30-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:02 PM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by troubleshooter

Firstly it is not 'my theory' of the date.

Ok ... lets begin here...

The 31 AD date is almost exclusively an SDA belief derived from William Miller and Samuel Snow...
...and is still held by SDA's to support their cognitive dissonance of 1844 when nothing actually happened.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
The date is determined from the 69 and 70 week prophecy in Daniel of when the Messiah would be anointed and cut off mid week.

This is why I posted my comments on 457 BC.

There are at least a dozen chronological schemes proposed for the 'seventy sevens' of Daniel 9:24...
...and I suggest the solution is that it is a chronography rather than a chronology...
...with its focus on the grace of God rather than some divine numerology or the validity of a modern religious sect.

Major historians agree with it being 31AD,

This is not true as are many of the presupositions of your assertion in the OP.

I will continue my analysis of your response as I have time if that's ok.
edit on 30/6/12 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:19 PM
reply to post by troubleshooter

Are you actually a Christian though? And if so what kind/denomination/ is rather important to know in how to frame useful responses to you and to frame the discussion in context for the other people following it. It is important to know whether your argument is purely intellectual (and you are not a Christian) or you are trying to uphold God's Word as an authoritative source (implying you are a Christian).

I ask this because your line of attack is on purely Ellen White trying to invalidate the section I had from her which was mostly for illustrative purposes of chronology of events (so people might understand how this will/might play out in practice), in no way targets the meat of the thread which stands completely on its own, completely scripturally supported already and ironclad quotes from the beast itself.

That is why the prophetic vision stuff is at the back end of the posts, after people have already received the solid 'meat' they can read the 'visions' and say to themselves now in light of the 'meat', 'hmmm that is plausible and would make sense.'

Instead of attacking the meat or calling into question whether these particular words from 'visions' are in opposition to the Word, you bring up issues not even related to the topic. So I really have to question what your intentions are...are they to help discover the truth of this topic (so far doesn't seem to be the case) or is it to try confuse/distract the minds of other readers from the central points (so far looks more to be the case).
edit on 30-6-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

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