Great info - I can't help but wonder though - when are you going to take a stand? When are you going to decide on what you believe and what you
don't? Just wondering...
Are we in the 'end times'? I don't know. That isn't fence sitting - it means just what is says - I don't know. (Maybe that's where you are
also?)?
Point being? I truly believe - end times or not, WWIII or not, Christianity vs. Islam vs. whatever the flavor of the day is? The time is coming -
wait - I retract that - the time has come when we all need to be self prepared and ready to take a stand. What we believe in. What we're
willing to fight for. What we're ready to live and die for.
Thanks for the thread -
peace
Isaiah Prophecies: Applied to Current Events (Syria, Israel, and Egypt), page
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Topic started on 24-6-2012 @ 11:53 AM by cassandranova
Preface/Disclaimer
Before I start, let me preface my comments by saying I don't necessarily believe any of the things mentioned in the Book of Isaiah will come to pass or that I know if they even theoretically refer to modern events. I don't, and I'm not particularly religious, but the similarities were interesting enough to compare for two reasons for me.
1) There are a lot of people who take the Bible as literal word, some of whom are policy makers, and so the book is important because
2) whether the prophecies are genuine or being self-fulfilled by those with the capacity to do so, it's worth a look.
I'm being neutral with respect to their veracity, but for the purposes of discussion, I'm simply anticipating consequences if they are true. For basic background information, I'm primarily using Wikipedia though I checked it against other sources.
While there are also historical examples to which they could and should be applied for comparative purposes, I'm neglecting to do so here because it is beyond the scope of the inquiry, and frankly, beyond my knowledge. I'm simply seeing how they could be applied to today.
Introduction
Dated from the 8th Century BC, Isaiah is known both for its prophecies of calamities as well as its prediction for salvation. From what I've read, the Book of Isaiah is divided into three different parts based on the authorship of the work, with the first 39 books from the primary author sometimes called Proto-Isaiah. I'm going to focus on that part, and specifically on the most commonly referenced sections with respect to modern events, in Isaiah 17 and 19. They are part of a section of that book ranging from sections 13-23 that describe a series of events to happen to nations. Although they are not necessarily chronological, I'm going to write about them that way for simplicity.
Isaiah 17
Isaiah 17 deals primarily with the destruction of Damascus. Its opening line, "See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins" has been thought by many to indicate a time of the total destruction of that city. But that's only one interpretation.
Delving more deeply into the words, about halfway through the passage, it says "In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation" which makes me conjure up an image of people abandoning the cities, perhaps because of war and like refugees who are already fleeing in several directions because of the civil unrest.
After talking a bit about how so many nations are involved, the passage ends with "In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us." To me, it conjures up the image of night time air strikes, taken quickly and without setting foot on the ground.
However you interpret it, the scene it sets is of Syria under siege, and the only question is how terrible the violence conducted against it will be.
Isaiah 19
Isaiah 19 describes a time of great unrest in Egypt, which in some ways could relate to the revolutionary situation happening now. I'll use this longer snippet to illustrate.
“I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian—
brother will fight against brother,
neighbor against neighbor,
city against city,
kingdom against kingdom.
The Egyptians will lose heart,
and I will bring their plans to nothing;
they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead,
the mediums and the spiritists.
I will hand the Egyptians over
to the power of a cruel master,
and a fierce king will rule over them,”
Considering that different cities support the different factions looking for control in Egypt, despite the very good intentions of some involved, it's possible to see the end result being some strong man taking control. While this is the portion of the prophecy many people are looking at, what made me more interested was what follows near the end of Isaiah 19.
After talking about a series of calamities inflicted upon Egypt, the text says "In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them. And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified."
Could that presage a preemptive Israeli strike against Egypt? Such a scenario would have seemed unlikely not too long ago, but with the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power with Morsi having publicly stated his desire for Jerusalem, maybe Israel strikes first if they see the Army at risk of surrendering control.
But the ending is what interested me most: "The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."
In both Isaiah 17 and Isaiah 19, there's the idea that a time of tribulation and wandering from the faith afflicted the people of Egypt and Syria, but you see the suggestion here at the end of 19 (which is reinforced in later books), that there is a unity of some sort between Egypt, Syria, and Israel. Although it boggles the mind to think of it, considering that Gaza and the Golan Heights were already added, could the end game of some conflict see some union on those terms between those areas.
While it sounds absurd on face value, if Syria was to launch against Israel and Israel retaliated, it's easy to see Egypt getting drawn into such a war now, and should the Israelis be successful in a violent fashion, maybe something could change. I'd be the first to admit it'd take a miracle to cover the religious differences, but maybe that's doable.
Self-Fulfilling Belief?
If you're of the mindset as I often am that situations are sometimes engineered to bring about a certain solution, maybe this is where prophecy matters most. I know here in the United States there are actors who want to precipitate the events they see as leading to the resurrection of the messiah, and the events of Isaiah are interesting to them. I've read much about it, and from time in politics, met people who express such views.
So if Damascus falls, if Egypt goes to strife, and the war that looks to possibly be on the horizon happens, between the confluence of technology and prophecy, could people be made to see something miraculous, and maybe the end result be the prediction of a union between the disparate peoples of Syria, Israel, and Egypt? The idea that one group is going to control that area seems much less far fetched than it did just a year ago, and it's worth keeping an eye on how current events fit to this very old prophecy.
Before I start, let me preface my comments by saying I don't necessarily believe any of the things mentioned in the Book of Isaiah will come to pass or that I know if they even theoretically refer to modern events. I don't, and I'm not particularly religious, but the similarities were interesting enough to compare for two reasons for me.
1) There are a lot of people who take the Bible as literal word, some of whom are policy makers, and so the book is important because
2) whether the prophecies are genuine or being self-fulfilled by those with the capacity to do so, it's worth a look.
I'm being neutral with respect to their veracity, but for the purposes of discussion, I'm simply anticipating consequences if they are true. For basic background information, I'm primarily using Wikipedia though I checked it against other sources.
While there are also historical examples to which they could and should be applied for comparative purposes, I'm neglecting to do so here because it is beyond the scope of the inquiry, and frankly, beyond my knowledge. I'm simply seeing how they could be applied to today.
Introduction
Dated from the 8th Century BC, Isaiah is known both for its prophecies of calamities as well as its prediction for salvation. From what I've read, the Book of Isaiah is divided into three different parts based on the authorship of the work, with the first 39 books from the primary author sometimes called Proto-Isaiah. I'm going to focus on that part, and specifically on the most commonly referenced sections with respect to modern events, in Isaiah 17 and 19. They are part of a section of that book ranging from sections 13-23 that describe a series of events to happen to nations. Although they are not necessarily chronological, I'm going to write about them that way for simplicity.
Isaiah 17
Isaiah 17 deals primarily with the destruction of Damascus. Its opening line, "See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins" has been thought by many to indicate a time of the total destruction of that city. But that's only one interpretation.
Delving more deeply into the words, about halfway through the passage, it says "In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation" which makes me conjure up an image of people abandoning the cities, perhaps because of war and like refugees who are already fleeing in several directions because of the civil unrest.
After talking a bit about how so many nations are involved, the passage ends with "In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us." To me, it conjures up the image of night time air strikes, taken quickly and without setting foot on the ground.
However you interpret it, the scene it sets is of Syria under siege, and the only question is how terrible the violence conducted against it will be.
Isaiah 19
Isaiah 19 describes a time of great unrest in Egypt, which in some ways could relate to the revolutionary situation happening now. I'll use this longer snippet to illustrate.
“I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian—
brother will fight against brother,
neighbor against neighbor,
city against city,
kingdom against kingdom.
The Egyptians will lose heart,
and I will bring their plans to nothing;
they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead,
the mediums and the spiritists.
I will hand the Egyptians over
to the power of a cruel master,
and a fierce king will rule over them,”
Considering that different cities support the different factions looking for control in Egypt, despite the very good intentions of some involved, it's possible to see the end result being some strong man taking control. While this is the portion of the prophecy many people are looking at, what made me more interested was what follows near the end of Isaiah 19.
After talking about a series of calamities inflicted upon Egypt, the text says "In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them. And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified."
Could that presage a preemptive Israeli strike against Egypt? Such a scenario would have seemed unlikely not too long ago, but with the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power with Morsi having publicly stated his desire for Jerusalem, maybe Israel strikes first if they see the Army at risk of surrendering control.
But the ending is what interested me most: "The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."
In both Isaiah 17 and Isaiah 19, there's the idea that a time of tribulation and wandering from the faith afflicted the people of Egypt and Syria, but you see the suggestion here at the end of 19 (which is reinforced in later books), that there is a unity of some sort between Egypt, Syria, and Israel. Although it boggles the mind to think of it, considering that Gaza and the Golan Heights were already added, could the end game of some conflict see some union on those terms between those areas.
While it sounds absurd on face value, if Syria was to launch against Israel and Israel retaliated, it's easy to see Egypt getting drawn into such a war now, and should the Israelis be successful in a violent fashion, maybe something could change. I'd be the first to admit it'd take a miracle to cover the religious differences, but maybe that's doable.
Self-Fulfilling Belief?
If you're of the mindset as I often am that situations are sometimes engineered to bring about a certain solution, maybe this is where prophecy matters most. I know here in the United States there are actors who want to precipitate the events they see as leading to the resurrection of the messiah, and the events of Isaiah are interesting to them. I've read much about it, and from time in politics, met people who express such views.
So if Damascus falls, if Egypt goes to strife, and the war that looks to possibly be on the horizon happens, between the confluence of technology and prophecy, could people be made to see something miraculous, and maybe the end result be the prediction of a union between the disparate peoples of Syria, Israel, and Egypt? The idea that one group is going to control that area seems much less far fetched than it did just a year ago, and it's worth keeping an eye on how current events fit to this very old prophecy.
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 12:44 PM by tenderdefender
reply to post by cassandranova
The prophecy likely found fulfillment in the time of Alexander the Great, who occupied Syria and Phoenicia following his victory at the Battle of Issus in 333 B.C.E.—Zec 9:1-4.
During the Seleucid period, Damascus was replaced by Antioch as the Syrian provincial capital. King Aretas III of the Arabic Nabataean kingdom captured the city in 85 B.C.E. Rome conquered all of Syria in 64-63 B.C.E., and Damascus continued as a Roman city until 33 C.E. It was listed by Pliny (Roman historian of the first century C.E.) as one of the original ten cities of the Decapolis.
In the first century C.E. When Saul of Tarsus headed for Damascus in his campaign of persecuting Christians, the city had a number of Jewish synagogues. (Ac 9:1, 2) It evidently then formed part of the domain of Nabataean King Aretas IV and was ruled by an appointed governor. (2Co 11:32, 33) After his conversion, blinded Saul was led to a home on the street called Straight. Paul (Saul) preached for a time in the synagogues of Damascus, but a murder plot made necessary his escape by night through an opening in the city wall.—Ac 9:11, 17-25; 26:20; Ga 1:16, 17.
The prophecy likely found fulfillment in the time of Alexander the Great, who occupied Syria and Phoenicia following his victory at the Battle of Issus in 333 B.C.E.—Zec 9:1-4.
During the Seleucid period, Damascus was replaced by Antioch as the Syrian provincial capital. King Aretas III of the Arabic Nabataean kingdom captured the city in 85 B.C.E. Rome conquered all of Syria in 64-63 B.C.E., and Damascus continued as a Roman city until 33 C.E. It was listed by Pliny (Roman historian of the first century C.E.) as one of the original ten cities of the Decapolis.
In the first century C.E. When Saul of Tarsus headed for Damascus in his campaign of persecuting Christians, the city had a number of Jewish synagogues. (Ac 9:1, 2) It evidently then formed part of the domain of Nabataean King Aretas IV and was ruled by an appointed governor. (2Co 11:32, 33) After his conversion, blinded Saul was led to a home on the street called Straight. Paul (Saul) preached for a time in the synagogues of Damascus, but a murder plot made necessary his escape by night through an opening in the city wall.—Ac 9:11, 17-25; 26:20; Ga 1:16, 17.
edit on 24-6-2012 by tenderdefender because: errors
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 01:18 PM by cassandranova
reply to post by tenderdefender
I saw that and it makes sense. But the reason this remains relevant even if what you say is accurate, which seems to fit, is for the latter scenario I projected where prophecies can be appropriated for other uses by believers.
I saw that and it makes sense. But the reason this remains relevant even if what you say is accurate, which seems to fit, is for the latter scenario I projected where prophecies can be appropriated for other uses by believers.
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 03:22 PM by triune
reply to post by cassandranova
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is your being led astray by the term Assyria, and particularly the phrase 'Assyria my handiwork'. This does not refer to the modern day country Syria.
In history it was the Assyrians which conquered Israel and took the Israelites captives out of their land and moved them north. The Assyrians and their captives gradually drifted further north into Modern day Europe with the Israelites (Jews) eventually arriving in Britian, later to America and forming the british Commonwealth in fullfilment of Gods promise to Abraham.
The 'Assyrians' who moved north with the captive Jews are the modern day nation of Germany.
The bible has many references to God using the Assyrians to punish his sinning people the Israelites (this refers to the 12 tribes of Israel now scattered throughout the world, predominantely the western nations of the British Commonwealth and USA)
World wars 1 & 2 are such examples where Germany was the aggessor.
This is in reference to the above phrase, 'Assyria my handiwork'.
This will be so again in the near future where it will be the German led EU that will invade and conquer the middle east, NOT NATO.
Isaiah and Jerimiah prophecies relating to the the end times cannot be read in isolation from other end time prophecies as Book of revelation which talks of the 'Beast' government of 10 kings giving their power over to one supreme leader who then invades and conquers the middle east.
This Beast is the soon to form 'reorganised' EU under the firm control of the most powerful European country, Germany. It is Germany that will form a pact with some other ME nationsto take control of the ME oil supplies and destroy radical Islam.
If you want to know where the world is heading......watch GERMANY.
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is your being led astray by the term Assyria, and particularly the phrase 'Assyria my handiwork'. This does not refer to the modern day country Syria.
In history it was the Assyrians which conquered Israel and took the Israelites captives out of their land and moved them north. The Assyrians and their captives gradually drifted further north into Modern day Europe with the Israelites (Jews) eventually arriving in Britian, later to America and forming the british Commonwealth in fullfilment of Gods promise to Abraham.
The 'Assyrians' who moved north with the captive Jews are the modern day nation of Germany.
The bible has many references to God using the Assyrians to punish his sinning people the Israelites (this refers to the 12 tribes of Israel now scattered throughout the world, predominantely the western nations of the British Commonwealth and USA)
World wars 1 & 2 are such examples where Germany was the aggessor.
This is in reference to the above phrase, 'Assyria my handiwork'.
This will be so again in the near future where it will be the German led EU that will invade and conquer the middle east, NOT NATO.
Isaiah and Jerimiah prophecies relating to the the end times cannot be read in isolation from other end time prophecies as Book of revelation which talks of the 'Beast' government of 10 kings giving their power over to one supreme leader who then invades and conquers the middle east.
This Beast is the soon to form 'reorganised' EU under the firm control of the most powerful European country, Germany. It is Germany that will form a pact with some other ME nationsto take control of the ME oil supplies and destroy radical Islam.
If you want to know where the world is heading......watch GERMANY.
edit on 24-6-2012 by triune because: No reason
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 06:16 PM by Regenstorm
reply to post by silo13
I personally think we do live in the prophesied "End Times".
It's not just the worldly events, but those that have happened in my life too.There is still some doubt, can't deny that, but I think there is a lot of truth in the many prophecies that are around. Looking at them one by one, it's easy to dismiss it as male cow manure, but if you put them all together and start to look for similarities, you'll find out that there are a lot of similarities.
What will happen or better said, how it will, is in my humble opinion the better question. My speculation is that it will be a "Coin Dropping" event, a moment every human being on this world gets aware of what the [SNIP] is going on and gets aware of his/her personal actions and behavior.
To me it would mean a great deal if Judgment Day would be tomorrow, putting an end to all the lies, anger, violence and unjust in this/our/my world. It would be nice if it really is December 21 2012, but I don't want to hold on that specific day, I personally think it will happen when the time is right.
I personally think we do live in the prophesied "End Times".
It's not just the worldly events, but those that have happened in my life too.There is still some doubt, can't deny that, but I think there is a lot of truth in the many prophecies that are around. Looking at them one by one, it's easy to dismiss it as male cow manure, but if you put them all together and start to look for similarities, you'll find out that there are a lot of similarities.
What will happen or better said, how it will, is in my humble opinion the better question. My speculation is that it will be a "Coin Dropping" event, a moment every human being on this world gets aware of what the [SNIP] is going on and gets aware of his/her personal actions and behavior.
To me it would mean a great deal if Judgment Day would be tomorrow, putting an end to all the lies, anger, violence and unjust in this/our/my world. It would be nice if it really is December 21 2012, but I don't want to hold on that specific day, I personally think it will happen when the time is right.
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 06:26 PM by BobAthome
reply to post by Regenstorm
i agree,, but the part that weighs heavy ie doubt is it all ends ok,,and now with Fucushima spewing crap for next ??? years,,even if no war,,or mega-earthqake,,,how does all the Radiation get fixed,,for the next 1000 years or so,,
well half-life of 2400 years give or take a year. and that is just reality.
i agree,, but the part that weighs heavy ie doubt is it all ends ok,,and now with Fucushima spewing crap for next ??? years,,even if no war,,or mega-earthqake,,,how does all the Radiation get fixed,,for the next 1000 years or so,,
well half-life of 2400 years give or take a year. and that is just reality.
reply posted on 24-6-2012 @ 06:50 PM by Regenstorm
reply posted on 26-6-2012 @ 04:16 PM by BobAthome
reply to post by Regenstorm
better hurry,,
2 hours ago Occurred On: Jun-26-2012
taking bets,,DAMASCUS,,ruinious heap,
or total uninhabitable for a thousand years?
50/50
70/30
or 90/10
,,anyone.?
better hurry,,
2 hours ago Occurred On: Jun-26-2012
taking bets,,DAMASCUS,,ruinious heap,
or total uninhabitable for a thousand years?
50/50
70/30
or 90/10
,,anyone.?
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