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Christians, preach the Gospel. Do not debate.

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posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Bone75
reply to post by Joecroft
 


This entire thread is proof that what the OP is saying is 100% true. It contains a level of wisdom that could only come from God himself.

Now that you have provided us with 6 pages of "pointless debate". I would like you to read the OP again and receive the message.

If it still doesn't sink in, reply to this post and I will offer further proof.


Work on a little proof for this one. We'll use science and you can use?




The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

www.bbc.co.uk...




Just why did god make tar balls for Lake Asphalt, as the Greeks call this Sea?

Did god fly in an oil tanker just to wipe out Soddom and Gomorrah?




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach

Originally posted by SaturnFX

That is not a problem with atheism, that is a simple realization.
Why do you personally need a deity in order to be a good person


Why do you need societal laws to be a good person? See the problem with atheism comes down to morality, an argument I used often in my time as an atheist. (I know, I know. You don't think I was one.)

But my argument back then when presented with the morality problem was that an atheists morals came from the same place as a theists: from society. The only difference was the theist is basing their morality on an ancient society that was (in my view then) primitive and ignorant.

But now I see that if an atheist wants to argue that morality is based upon society then morality is 100% subjective and can change on a whim, based on the way society moves. If 1000 years from now, society deems something that we now see as immoral or illegal as legal then who is to argue otherwise? It basically leaves the door open for anything.

With atheism there is no absolute morality. Anything can become moral/immoral or legal/illegal if the society deems it so.


What nonsense..the more you talk about when you were an "atheist", the more I realize you weren't. You were a unprincipled angry anti-theist whom have no basic understanding of humanism.

Do dogs need jesus to know not to murder every animal around? Why would a bear not immediately eat its cub...after all, babies are a drag on resources and survival.
Oh, right..because we are biologically designed to progress our lineage and species as a whole...no deity needed..it is simply life. If we weren't biologically programmed to do this..we wouldn't exist..be a rather short lived species considering we don't have a thousand babies at once.

Now.

Many religions have many pearls of wisdom in their books...mixed in with a lot of junk mind you. There is no reason to toss the wisdom out no matter where its found. If in lord of the rings, fellowship rings true in order to overcome large problems, does this mean not to work together because LOTRs is a fantasy? no...

If religion advanced primitive cultures society..then yes, use it..but frankly, there is more wisdom in a deepak chopra book now than there is in the bible...why stay stuck in a book of wisdom from 2k years ago when we have since grown as people and society...and in 1000 years, I do hope they have built up on the philosophies of this era and not think Deepak was some prophet and none more need to discuss it.

What did Jesus say about artifical intelligence love?
oh..right..nothing..nor did the old testiment..wonder why..its like..its not timeless. hmm.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Well you are wrong about me again. I was, and am, and have been for a while, on a quest for the truth. I believe I have found that in my faith. It wasn't a desire to win debates that intially led me to atheism. I don't get how you can make these wild accusations about me when you don't know me.

Ultimately I am at peace with my beliefs and that's all that matters.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Jaydee055

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Land does not require a king to have people...afterlife doesn't require a deity to have existence of other lifeforms..I am unsure..but open...

Name a big religion of today that doesn't have loads of instructions to murder one another put in black and white in their holy books. Here is the difference then. If I murder someone whom annoys me, I am a murderer...if you do it, you are a martyr.




Your openness to the possibility of an afterlife leads me to believe that you are indeed an open minded individual as opposed to many atheists that I have encountered in the past. I applaud you ma'am.

I am open to many things...have a semi-belief in some things (more of a wanting to believe frankly..ufos make sense for instance, but haven't seen the smoking gun yet).
Anyhow, an atheist is simply someone whom does not believe in deities..thats it..that is the only qualification..the rest is up to the individual..be it about ghosts, aliens, unicorns, honest politicians, etc.
If you meet an atheist down the road that is saying they don't accept ghosts because they are atheist..its like saying because a person is christian, they must have pepperoni's on their pizza. ..they are unrelated.

And its Sir, not Ma'am




As for religion, I can't stand it myself. Yes, I believe in a deity of great power. No, I do not believe everything within the bible, or any other holy works for that matter. I believe that what we were given is a basic guideline of how to live our lives. Treat others as you would have them treat you and so on. Afterall, the bible was written by imperfect humans, and humans will use a text of great significance to further their agenda.

The message is there however.
edit on 25-6-2012 by Jaydee055 because: (no reason given)

There are much clearer and thoughtful messages in todays self help books...just not as big of a marketing team.
edit on 25-6-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

What nonsense..the more you talk about when you were an "atheist", the more I realize you weren't. You were a unprincipled angry anti-theist whom have no basic understanding of humanism.


Seriously, why are the majority of your responses ad hominems? I really wish you were on my old Facebook account.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
Do dogs need jesus to know not to murder every animal around?


Wild dogs will kill indiscriminately. Domesticated dogs have "masters" who trained them (unless their owner was Michael Vick).

And regarding your bear example, there are times in the wild when animals kill their own, or kill their mates. Apparently no one told them killing was wrong.

But thanks for ignoring my point. Frankly this is getting old and quite boring. All you seem concerned with is personally attacking my character and making false accusations against me, time and time again. So I'm done. Any responses from you to me will now be ignored.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
Ultimately I am at peace with my beliefs and that's all that matters.


Well I can respect that at least. Just do yourself a favor and never stop turning over stones..truth is relative..but its still more important to constantly seek than comfort...well, for me anyhow.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach

Originally posted by SaturnFX

What nonsense..the more you talk about when you were an "atheist", the more I realize you weren't. You were a unprincipled angry anti-theist whom have no basic understanding of humanism.


Seriously, why are the majority of your responses ad hominems? I really wish you were on my old Facebook account.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
Do dogs need jesus to know not to murder every animal around?


Wild dogs will kill indiscriminately. Domesticated dogs have "masters" who trained them (unless their owner was Michael Vick).

Wild dogs attack to protect their family, and for food.
just like us



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by shaluach
 


OP I wrestle with this ego thing you bring to the table, everytime I engage someone on these boards. If one pays attention you can possibly reach people on the fence. I always figured that if I'm here or there or where ever ? Then at least I'm planting seeds. The rest is up to God. We can never totally suppress nor escape our ego. We follow Christ as best we can never denying him. It is debate but it also helps sperad the word.

Also have you heard the time of the gentiles has come to an end ? If so, I thought this was when we put on the full armor of the Lord. Therefore moving away from being sheppards and preachers and followers. To soldiers and saints. No longer the timid pacifists. But now ready to do battle. This is what God seems to point me to as I consider what our Father in Heaven would most appreciate. If what I'm doing doesn't have any chance of making him smile. ? If even only one was saved for all my testimony ? Then there is nothing in it for me. Show me why I am wrong without question ?
I will cease.

Saturn



Just do yourself a favor and never stop turning over stones..


Until your pushing up daisies right ? See Saturn this is why they say the truth will set you free. So you can get off the rock pile Bud.
edit on 25-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



I would say that no the time of the Gentiles is not fulfilled yet. Also, the Full Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) is not literal armor or weapons. Remember, our sword is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. That's the only armor and weapons that we need.

Remember that even during the End Times we will face extreme persecution and tribulations. The End Times are real and we need to study them as written in Revelation, not LaHaye's Left Behind series.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Read the title of the OP again, it was addressing Christians. He provided instructions on how to deal with people like you and ME. I can pick the Bible apart just like you, but I can't deny the wisdom that's left over.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by shaluach
 





I would say that no the time of the Gentiles is not fulfilled yet. Also, the Full Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) is not literal armor or weapons. Remember, our sword is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. That's the only armor and weapons that we need.


Well of course, I must agree and that is just what I meant. So we are on the same page.
( Slides Tanto back in it's sheeth )



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Work on a little proof for this one. We'll use science and you can use?




The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

www.bbc.co.uk...




Just why did god make tar balls for Lake Asphalt, as the Greeks call this Sea?

Did god fly in an oil tanker just to wipe out Soddom and Gomorrah?



Seriously? Is that the best you can do? You really brought out the big guns there didn't ya



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Well you are wrong about me again. I was, and am, and have been for a while, on a quest for the truth. I believe I have found that in my faith. It wasn't a desire to win debates that intially led me to atheism. I don't get how you can make these wild accusations about me when you don't know me.

Ultimately I am at peace with my beliefs and that's all that matters.

OK, we can all accept that you are on a quest for truth. We all are. What I deem to ask is, now that you have found "faith," as you so aptly put it, will you stop there, and know that your truth is found in religion alone, or will you continue to quest for truth? I am happy for you that you have found peace, although I kind of doubt that you have. After all, if you had found peace and understanding, you would not be in here looking for it.
The questions on you really being an Atheist are quite valid, I have spoken to many Atheists in my life, and all are well spoken and very knowledgeable on Bible and Religion in general, and this is how they came to Atheism in the first place. That is how I came to Wicca too, realizing that the Bible is NOT the word of god, but a collection of myths and tales from all over. So, if someone says to me, "I used to be a Wiccan, but now I am a Christian, I will expect that person to know a great deal about Wicca. After all, one has to know all about a religion to belong to it, right?



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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Well, Sinny, honestly it was a lot of things over a long period of time. I can't really pinpoint one exact thing. And I agree to an extent. Christianity is a tool that was created to control people. I do not follow Western Christianity™. I follow what the Scriptures say.
reply to post by shaluach
 


I agree. I think so many people look at the behavior of people professing to be Christians and are so turned off, they don't even bother to see for themselves what the bible really says.

Ya know that verse... The Lord said, this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men (I think it's in Isaiah).
edit on 26-6-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Yes, Scatter, it's found in Isaiah

"The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men." - Isaiah 29:13

The Messiah also references it in Matthew 15.

Thanks for sharing!



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 



I don’t normally quote anything outside of Jesus own words,

Do you have his own words in his own handwriting?
No?
Then....you "normally quote" only hearsay. "He said" stuff. The man did not leave any of his own written words.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Work on a little proof for this one. We'll use science and you can use?




The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

www.bbc.co.uk...




Just why did god make tar balls for Lake Asphalt, as the Greeks call this Sea?

Did god fly in an oil tanker just to wipe out Soddom and Gomorrah?



Seriously? Is that the best you can do? You really brought out the big guns there didn't ya


Well knowing that the typical Christian can only recount the Bible Narratives and can't handle science and critical thinking too well---I kept it simple.

Ya see, Christians usually run around all calling the ways of Mother Nature god, but somehow think nature is Jesus.


But, I think I and everyone sees all you can do is to dodge the issue.

Perhaps worshiping a leaf might be good for Christians, next.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus



They travelled to the Middle East to pursue their research, and their findings there enabled Dr Gopal Madabhushi, at the Cambridge University Centrifuge Laboratory back in England, to build an accurate scaled-down model of the buildings in Sodom, and the ground on which they stood.



When he saw the results, Harris was thrilled: 'I'm absolutely delighted - in fact I'm ecstatic.' He now hopes geologists and archaeologists will be inspired to embark on an underwater search for the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah.


Genuine curiosity here....

How does one build an accurate model of a hypothetical city and the ground on which it stood?
edit on 26-6-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Bone75
 





Originally posted by Bone
This entire thread is proof that what the OP is saying is 100% true. It contains a level of wisdom that could only come from God himself.


Not exactly, because the OP, was dismissive in the early stages, because he/she thought I was looking for a debate, by his /her own definition, of debate.

But the fact was, that there was no disagreement in the early stages, hence, it was really only a discussion, by the Ops own definition. And even after things became heated, I was still prepared to discuss the disagreement… so what does tell you?



Originally posted by Bone

Now that you have provided us with 6 pages of "pointless debate". I would like you to read the OP again and receive the message.


But none of it was pointless, and it was mainly (by the OPs own definition) a discussion, about a disagreement.

And I’m clarifying the differences here, because thats how the OP sees them, even though I do not. I Hope that’s clear.



Originally posted by Bone

If it still doesn't sink in, reply to this post and I will offer further proof.


But there are like 4 other posters on this thread now, who agree with me, in that there is no difference, between debate and discussion.


- JC



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by ScatterBrain


Well, Sinny, honestly it was a lot of things over a long period of time. I can't really pinpoint one exact thing. And I agree to an extent. Christianity is a tool that was created to control people. I do not follow Western Christianity™. I follow what the Scriptures say.
reply to post by shaluach
 


I agree. I think so many people look at the behavior of people professing to be Christians and are so turned off, they don't even bother to see for themselves what the bible really says.

Ya know that verse... The Lord said, this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men (I think it's in Isaiah).
edit on 26-6-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)


Thats because the ones that act like this and profess to be of us are not of us but false disciples and false prophets.

Know them by the fruits of their labors.
Remember in the end the love of many will grow cold and we're seeing that today literally everywhere you look, every 5 feet you walk, every nook, cranny and corner of the world. In my eyes i see the world going to hell in a handcart. War, devestation, strife, starvation, pestilence, civil unrest, social upheaval, like the 4 horsemen are already loose. We're looking at the signs all over the world Christ gave to Peter before he ascended. We're either at the end of the Time of Sorrows or entering into the tribulation.




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