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Christians, preach the Gospel. Do not debate.

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Well I have the Scriptures which say there was an intelligent force behind it. You have nothing that says it was purely a natural event, or that said natural event wasn't used by the Most High. It's like people arguing about the splitting of the Red Sea and the plagues of Egypt happening as the result of a volcano explosion (saw it on the History Channel a while back). Now, maybe that is how it happened. If it is, that doesn't mean that the Most High couldn't have used that volcano explosion to make these things happen. Pretty big coincidence though that a volcano explosion caused the sea to split right at the moment Moses told it to.

But again this is speculation that it was a volcano that caused this to happen. There is no documentation that says this happened. At least with Scripture we have documentation, whether you believe it or not.




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Well I have the Scriptures which say there was an intelligent force behind it. You have nothing that says it was purely a natural event, or that said natural event wasn't used by the Most High. It's like people arguing about the splitting of the Red Sea and the plagues of Egypt happening as the result of a volcano explosion (saw it on the History Channel a while back). Now, maybe that is how it happened. If it is, that doesn't mean that the Most High couldn't have used that volcano explosion to make these things happen. Pretty big coincidence though that a volcano explosion caused the sea to split right at the moment Moses told it to.

But again this is speculation that it was a volcano that caused this to happen. There is no documentation that says this happened. At least with Scripture we have documentation, whether you believe it or not.


You always claim "Scripture" this and that, which is written with so much allegory expression that it is hard to tell if they are speaking in the vogue of the old Annunaki gods or what. Scripture is so many words from a limited human perspective of little knowledge of the times and often embellished knowledge.

I think there is enough to support there was a lot of special things associated with nature happening in this area due to the Rift, Tectonic Plate movement, and presence of oil domes. Moses' father in law was the big Guru of Volcanoes for Midian, so they tended to know a lot about these natural issues. Moses Father-in-law and Moses were big alchemists of the time and the practitioners of science.

One can look at the Rea Sea Crossing and there is a geologic fault right under the land bridge of the Red Sea there. We have seen things like Old Faithful being connected to timed eruptions of pressure and releases of energy from deep underground. What is to say that Moses not only knew about the Burning Bush as an acid release from underground due to these Rift/Volcanic issues, but knew of ways to divert streams to trigger bigger underground effects that would have pressure effects induce the Red Sea Crossing site.

You say there was some special god running around holding Moses hand, and I say there are some knowledge issues linked to these Rift zone effects with man's abilty to control these issues with diversions of water into caverns below the surface that either caused the huge rush of sound like trumpets blare, or even the forces needed to make the Red Sea Crossing happen for just the time needed to cross and then close.

The Annunaki theme supports the idea that they were considered gods, and they were definitely into high sciences, and they looked for gold in old volcanic areas, where it tended to concentrate. The Annunaki technically were not gods, but where in the theme of a superior intelligence, and it appears they did have some high sciences.

Even when one connects that the Annunaki science may be the root for the Moses Crossing the Red Sea and the Mtn of Fire, it in the old world sense was god's work. In todays sense, most don't call that advanced science as god, nor would the Annunaki be considered to be god any more than you or I should be called god.

Should one call Mose Mtn of Fire a spontaneous event, one set up with Annunaki science, or something even less tangeble?

I tend to see Moses Mtn as being just the effects of normal progressions of nature in the Rift Zone with Plate Movements. Even today these plate movements are slowly lowering parts of Ethiopia and sometime down the road it will become an inland sea. All just the simple random acts of the planet's motion due to expansion and contractions.


You hold up your one book called Scriptures written from the intellect of all too often primitive interpretations of what some saw, but there is so much more to the story when one moves beyond just the limited story retelling by those of the primitive views.

Most consider Moses theme for god was derived from Enlil and the times of the Creator gods that are called Annunaki, and called out as god and being from heaven. Others, looking deeper, think that the god of Jesus was the more loving Enki, that was the father god for humans in the Garden of Eden.

Was there a higher intelligence back in those times, it appears so. It was a supreme intelligence for those times, and highly impressive and those impressions linger on today in the form of Scriptures versions of the retelling that continue to call them as gods. There is a lot of lost science due to the floods destructions and the churches burning down halls of records to conceil all these old histories and try to force their limited view into the forefront.

But with each tick of the clock, more and more the history is being reinfored that the Annunaki theme was more than mere myth, as too much fits. All the mitochondrial Eve science is fitting that story. The sciences of the City of Ur and the Ziggarat cultures spawned around the planet due to its superior ways of sciences.

You can wave around Scripture, but until you read all these other details from these old archiological finds and writings, these Sciptures only offer a highly limited insight into what was god, what was possible from these old highly developed cultures, and their interests in volcanics, metals, gold, and highly advanced science that has been lost for various reasons.

Wave around more Books than the one the Romans wanted to politcal reasons, wave around everything that imparts a greater knowledge and mesh all those into a higher understanding.


edit on 28-6-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The world history is only partly told with Scripture, as it omits most of the Pre-Flood issues of god



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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At least with Scripture we have documentation, whether you believe it or not.

"There is something feeble and contemptible about a person who cannot face life without the help of comfortable myths and cherished illusions."
Bertrand Russell

Well, some of us has researched the origins of these so called "scriptures" you seem to set stock in, and have discovered all are copies of copies, and not a thing that could be called original. We have discovered that Francis Bacon and John Dee had full control of the King James Bible for over a year. A small amount of research will show you that both could be called Pagan, or even Sorcerers. We have discovered that the entire New Testament was authored by a Roman family named Piso. We have discovered that many of the God names in history are in fact ETs from other Star Systems. And none of them wrote any books, in fact MEN wrote those books.

So, to sum up, if you wish to take the words of men as gospel, we cannot stop you, that is your choice. But please don't attempt to convince us that what you read in the Bible is all true, because it isn't. Some links for you, if you are inclined to research a little.

The Q source (also Q document, Q Gospel, Q Sayings Gospel, or Q) is a hypothetical collection of sayings of Jesus

THE RYLANDS PAPYRUS FRAUD

Arrius Calpurnius Piso

How and Why Ancient Rulers Needed to Create a Universal Religion

Zoroastrian Archives

St Paul - History, Biblical Epistles, Gnosticism and Mithraism

Influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism and Christianity

The King James Translaters

Francis Bacon and the James 1st Bible

Some Pagan items adopted by Christians

THE NKJV AND THE TRIQUETRA

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

Virgin Mothers and Virgin-Born Gods

"Myths surrounding Jesus' birth," as interpreted by Progressive Christians

How Christian Mind Control Works

Born Again Brainwashing

Are You a Brainwashed Christian? Brainwashing in the Religions



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Yeah I do say Scripture this and that. At least I have something to go on. You are going on and on about volcanos and annunaki now, all of which is nothing but speculation based on... da da da... SCRIPTURES.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


"comfortable myths and cherished illusions."

Really? Coming from you who is now claiming the Bible was based on aliens? Sounds like a comfortable myth and cherished illusion to me, also.

And Francis Bacon and John Dee "could" be pagans or even sorcerers? The entire NT was not authored by the Piso family.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Yeah I do say Scripture this and that. At least I have something to go on. You are going on and on about volcanos and annunaki now, all of which is nothing but speculation based on... da da da... SCRIPTURES.


You always hold up your one little book and say this is all I know, and we all see your world is only from that one bit of knowledge and its interpretations have issues.

Do read around and you will find there are a number of old written sources that go back to the times humans learned to write. Book of Enoch was valued by the Essene, who trained Jesus. It is loaded with the knowledge around the times of Abraham. Various of the of Sumerian texts tell far more. And several others that have come up that support the same theme.

Your little Scripture is but a tiny bit of what was going on per gods, the concepts of angels, and the sciences of the higher intelligence taught to the few in these very old times.

Your little book doesn't tell all in a way that allows you to connect with these other histories that supports your little book, in a fashion. Just that most of us would not call these folks gods these days, but they certainly were called such back in those days. They certainly appear to have advanced sciences that we all consider as possible today, but not back them with the primitive minds watching from afar.

Some got close, like Enoch. Some got warnings of issues down the road, Like Noah. Some protested the isues of faked up gods, like Nimrod. And far too many still have not retraced these old areas of interest and asked themselves the right questions. Some don't even consider that there is more and more of the ancient history for the pro-flood times being found that explains better what the Bible Narratives tried to explain in far too poor a fashion.


Of course, the organized churches won't buy into these deeper histories because it explains way too much.

So, one finds we are back to the times of Gallaleo with the church standing in the way of progress and higher understanding.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by autowrench
 


"comfortable myths and cherished illusions."

Really? Coming from you who is now claiming the Bible was based on aliens? Sounds like a comfortable myth and cherished illusion to me, also.

And Francis Bacon and John Dee "could" be pagans or even sorcerers? The entire NT was not authored by the Piso family.



Are you not the one that proposes that god is out there in heaven, way up there in the sky and space, and a supernatural being. Most call that extraterrestrial and alien.

So, your theme for god is alien. But now you want to deny your god?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


I love when you stereotype. I have read the Books of Enoch, Jasher, Sirach, etc. I'm very familiar with the Apocryphal Hebrew Scriptures. I have also read some of the Apocryphal "gospels" (although they are clear forgeries) as well as the Quran, Bhagavad Gita, and countless Buddhist Sutras. I'm also well acquainted with books by Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris.

So please continue operating under the false assumption that I'm some uneducated Christian. It amuses me and shows, to me, just how ignorant and egotistical you truly are to assume that you know anything about me.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus



Are you not the one that proposes that god is out there in heaven, way up there in the sky and space,



No. That's your uneducated stereotyping again.


and a supernatural being. Most call that extraterrestrial and alien.


Aliens, if they exist, would not be supernatural. They would be natural. A natural product of their environment. If you want to argue them supernatural then I could argue that humans are supernatural since we were created by supernatural means by the Most High.



So, your theme for god is alien.


No. That's your unsubstantiated definition based upon your interpretation of the same Scriptures you claim all I do is talk about. If it's so pointless to talk about Scriptures then why do you base so much of your ideology around it?


But now you want to deny your god?


No. I deny your false definition of the Most High as nothing but an alien. Explain to me how this alien of yours created Adam and Eve. And even then your aliens would have to have been created also. Were they created by another alien race who posed as gods? Who created THAT alien race then? So on and so forth.

If you argue that the aliens evolved naturally on their planet then we could argue that we evolved naturally also (a belief I do not hold) in which case your argument for aliens being gods in the Scriptures is now moot since these "gods" or God created mankind in Genesis. These gods or God also created the entire cosmos. How did an alien create the same universe that it exists within?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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OP: Thanks for starting the thread and bringing some much needed FOCUS back to some of here on ATS!


Yesterday I read this quote that stress' the importance of LOVE:


"I'm reminded of the story Norvel Hayes told about his daughter Zona. Most of ya'll know Norvel. He's a minister and long-time friend of our family. But when Zona was in her late teens, she was very, very rebellious. She wasn't serving the Lord. She was living a really wild, crazy life. She loved to party. She'd stay out all hours of the night and this was driving Norvel nuts.

He constantly preached to her every day. He preached at her. He would chew her out. He quoted her scriptures that showed how wrong she was. He threatened her. He tried to scare her even into straightening up her life. But none of this worked. Nothing he ever said even phased her.

And one day he would pray and he said, God, why don't you help me? When are you going to ever save my daughter? And God spoke to him and said, Son, I'm going to save Zona as soon as you start loving her. And Norvel was insulted. He said, What do you mean, God? You know I love her more than the whole world.

He said, Son, if you love her, then quit preaching to her…quit chewing her out, quit harping on her and start showing her that you love her. He said from that moment on, he never said another negative thing to her. When she came in at all hours of the night, he was there with his arms held open wide to hug her and love her and tuck her into bed.

The next morning when he got up, the first thing he did was take her a cup of coffee. He encouraged her. He did all these kind things to her. He treated her like a queen. And you know, it was just no time until Zona totally and completely changed and gave her life back to the Lord. See, love never fails. And what Norvel couldn't do in months and months and months by criticizing and condemning and chewing her out, he was able to accomplish in no time when he just started showing the love and mercy of God."

UNCONDITIONAL LOVE

Some of this may also be mentioned in one of his books here (How to Live and Not Die).



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Thanks, Murgatroid. That little story you posted is a great reminder also. Your avatar picture is extremely creepy by the way



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Thanks, Murgatroid. That little story you posted is a great reminder also. Your avatar picture is extremely creepy by the way


I like your signature. MLKJr. was a wise man and a good brother in Christ, this nation could use his advice in these times. That quote rings too true in these days, even more so than in his day.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thanks, LoneWolf. It's one of my favorite quotes in general and definitely my favorite of his quotes. I like to point out it because it presents a Martin Luther King, Jr. that history doesn't teach us about, the MLK that was openly critical of America. A lot of history likes to portray him as a devout Christian and dedicated nationalist, like he actually was all pro-America rah rah rah.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach

No. I deny your false definition of the Most High as nothing but an alien. Explain to me how this alien of yours created Adam and Eve. And even then your aliens would have to have been created also. Were they created by another alien race who posed as gods? Who created THAT alien race then? So on and so forth.

If you argue that the aliens evolved naturally on their planet then we could argue that we evolved naturally also (a belief I do not hold) in which case your argument for aliens being gods in the Scriptures is now moot since these "gods" or God created mankind in Genesis. These gods or God also created the entire cosmos. How did an alien create the same universe that it exists within?


If you truly read as much as you claim, you would not ask for explain how the Annunaki made Adam and Eve. Nor would you be so quick to call it false. Just because this little book you have omits the fuller story that these other records tell in much more detail, it appears to make your little book a pale record for details of what occured.

Your little book is like an outline for a course or a short syllabus that is only filled in with the fuller content of the course and that comes from these other records and not the Bible's Narratives that merely hint at where to dig deeper.

The short story is much like the issues of animal hybrids and livestock breeding with selective DNA processes.

Others tell much more of the story:




talc.site88.net...

The Bible is essentially a compilation of ancient texts, selected by the early church fathers. Texts that people weren't supposed to read, because they were not in accordance to the general Christian orthodox belief, were labeled as uncanonical and were purposely left out in the Bible, and this includes all works that were seen as apocryphal and Gnostic, like the "Book of Enoch", even though the canonical text Genesis 5:24 makes a very shortly reference to this man called Enoch:

"Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away."





More details here with the family tree, and Enoch was so much Annunaki that he decided to go back with them to their other home.




www.halexandria.org...

Note also the fractional breed combinations. For example:

Cain (Enki and Eve): 3/3 and 2/3 godlike = 5/6
Seth (Adam and Eve): 2/3 and 2/3 godlike = 2/3
Kalimath and Luluwa (Lilith and Enki): 3/3 and 3/3 = 3/3
Enoch (Cain and Luluwa): 5/6 and 3/3 = 11/12
Enos (Seth and Kalimath): 2/3 and 3/3 = 5/6

Cain’s line through Enoch is thus closer to a pure bred Anunnaki/god than Seth. Furthermore, Enki’s seed is clearly more dominant in the mix than Enlil’s. More of such matters a bit later.




It isn't very difficult to follow the various cultures words for these same issues of gods on Earth.


Certainly, this is mainly the Earth Primitive view of beings that were advanced and ones that they termed as gods in their primitive views.


Everyone knows the Annunaki were not the supreme creators for themselves, and like everyone else they don't know that full answer for who or what was the great architec of the universe. Yet, they knew enough to advance the science and knowledge on Earth and play some hybrid lifeform games with early humans by breeding experiments with their own DNA. Nothing much different than what hybrid animal breeding games are in farming today. Just that these happened long ago, and caused a huge jump in the usual DNA progression of humans and a huge culture shock of sciences used in farming with canals and rivers used to make impressive farms. Areas like the City of Ur and other Annunaki driven cities were large and advanced. Other followed in Babylon and Egypt, also driven by river science culture.

It isn't very hard to fathom, and not much rocket sciences. Just that Earth history speaks that we were visited by off world beings different than those in Earth, yet close enough that hybrid breeding still worked.


Once one finds these other sources of Earth history, pre-flood, one can find out all about gods, angels, creation of Adam and Eve, and do that learning totally having never seen or picked up your little Bible's Narratives. And in going back to the originals become more knowledgable that those that think they found all there is to know in the little Book that is more like an outline or syllabus that needs to be used to find how to dig more deep into the Pre-flood history of Earth.


Had your Christian pals decided to do these studies they would not dare call Jesus as Yahweh or even that Yahweh was Jesus view for god. All those that study the Sumerian information know exactly what god, the father means in these old days.

They even know that the Jesus god was called Ptah in Egypt, and likely all those great mystery schools of Egypt and the Essene taught him well. But these recent followers appear well off the mark of telling the correct and full story of Jesus and his own beliefs.


edit on 28-6-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Digging Deeper and finding the Creation, the Creator gods, the Angels of Heaven, without the syllabus.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Hello, you two. I wanted to U2U you but I felt it would be better if the World could read my message too so I made a thread instead. Still, I invite you to read my message at www.abovetopsecret.com... I originally wanted to send that message to you two but I made it a thread instead.
The text seems a bit weird, it's because I only had a limited time to write it.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by swan001
 



Hey, will check it out after church today. Been on vacation this past week and had no signal on the phone to get online.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Okay. And I also sent you a small (medium-big) U2U about a dragon beside one of our churches.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So, your theme for god is alien. But now you want to deny your god?

Curious question, MagnumOpus. "God" is a job description, not a proper name. I cannot deny the job, millions believe in such a God, complete with many different names and attributes, deeds and misdeeds.

The True First Creators is wholly, and completely unknown, even to the most intelligent and well read scholar. Human beings like to think they know things. They will tell you that they know things, even when they do not. Humans will lie even to themselves, and then believe in the lie. Humans will accept a thing, or dogma, at pure face value, never once researching it out, or looking for root word origins, or commonalities with other Ancient stories.
I could never, in good concious, deny the First Creators, for I do not know anything about them, only that they built all this, and then went away somewhere, perhaps to watch us as we live and destroy this planet again and again? Perhaps they may take delight in how we hate each other, and kill each other, and steal from each other, and rape our females, and rape the land? If this is true, Humanity must be pleasing First Creators to no end.
I thought this fitting:



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So, your theme for god is alien. But now you want to deny your god?

Curious question, MagnumOpus. "God" is a job description, not a proper name. I cannot deny the job, millions believe in such a God, complete with many different names and attributes, deeds and misdeeds.

The True First Creators is wholly, and completely unknown, even to the most intelligent and well read scholar. Human beings like to think they know things. They will tell you that they know things, even when they do not. Humans will lie even to themselves, and then believe in the lie. Humans will accept a thing, or dogma, at pure face value, never once researching it out, or looking for root word origins, or commonalities with other Ancient stories.
I could never, in good concious, deny the First Creators, for I do not know anything about them, only that they built all this, and then went away somewhere, perhaps to watch us as we live and destroy this planet again and again? Perhaps they may take delight in how we hate each other, and kill each other, and steal from each other, and rape our females, and rape the land? If this is true, Humanity must be pleasing First Creators to no end.
I thought this fitting:



Hello AutoWrench,

When It comes to the real issue for God, that which is associated with making matter, energy, and a natural order of physics, we know near nothing. I really doubt that God communicates with humans other than via the observables of the natural order.

I always use the lower case g for the god issues of the illiterates, which is all those that spin god being those associated with Abraham and the Annunaki creator gods. That is the Christians, the Islamics, and even the Jewish. They make huge battles out of their basic illiteracy on god and their presumption of knowning more than the other, but the general case is illiterate dysfunctionality.

All the god talk of the Christians would make the Character "Spock" into god in their realm of pagan knowledge, and the issues of the Star Trek Genesis Device into god also. We actually know so little of things small and things vast, that are clues to the issues of the real God concept. We only scratch the surface in knowing the small with the Higgs-Boson experiments to discover the god particle that gives the very small a mass. We can only look into deep space and wonder of the vastness and what really may or may not determine how that vast matter comes together at random or with a plan. Most simply don't know much about the real God issue.

Even worse we know little of the deep oceans, and the Christians are vapid of knowledge of the Earth Sciences that drove all these great themes of Moses, Soddom and Gomorrah, and even the Great Flood. Ignorance leads Christianity.

There appears to be a universal conscious concept that a few can tap into via high mountains and meditation like methods. This being the concept that the movie Avitar promoted with tapping into the tree of light. Yet, that isn't really god either.

There is a universe left to discover and most are stuck in a pagan world of off-world vistors to Earth that shapped human genetics with experiments not unlike breeding of cattle that farmers use today. We don't call Farmers that do genetic breeding as god, though if cows could write they might claim such.

Christianty and most religions are about ignorance, as the Creator gods that they all read about in their writings of the past flood world isn't even close to the correct reality. If anything keeps the world on Earth from advancing, it would be this utter manifest ignorance by those worshiping their various false concepts for god. You won't find anything close to god sitting in their churches hearing these bogus words about a so called god that is nothing more than more pagan ignorance.

Those that seek the real God go far away from these areas and become close to nature, and listen to the ways of nature without human interference, and the very few can appear to tap into an universal consciousness that may be as close as one gets, for now, toward knowing greater knowledge. But even that is very hard to discern or prove.

Where do we go from here should not be that determined by the ignorance of faked gods of the Biblical non-sense and the vapid concepts for god by Christians or any of the Abrahamic religions.

Seeking knowledge is good, but being saddled with ignorance is bad, and that is about the ways of most religions.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Sinny
 


Originally posted by Sinny
see how flawed religion is?

Flawed? I think diabolical would be a better word... Have you ever wondered why?


"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years." Link



Originally posted by Sinny
This God confuses me!

This is the "God" that has you confused:


The Synagogue of Satan

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan... LINK

God is never the author of confusion, but of peace...




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