What Stand Down Did Cheney Order?

Originally posted by 911files
However, the AAL11 (AAL11A) track was a TSD artifact ....

I need to clarify this statement because it is an inaccurate representation. Tactical Situation Display (TSD) is not radar. It is a graphical representation based on flight plans and other extraneous information. For example, UAL93 continued to track and land at DCA after it's crash because it's flight plan had been changed to DCA by controllers to assist with tracking. That was NOT the case with AAL11 (AAL11A). There was no new flight plan entered, so on TSD's AAL11 continued to track along its flight plan while on radar it deviated from it.

To assist controllers in tracking it (as a primary target), it was tagged with the identifier AAL11A. That identifier would continue (based on software track projections) to track for about 3 returns (~12 to 15 seconds) after loss of radar contact. From the available data, that was indeed the case. We do have the DART printouts from ZNY, and AAL11A did not continue to track southward.

There is no objective evidence that either AAL11 or AAL11A continued to track "southward" on either TSD's or controller radar screens either at ZNY or the NY TRACON. The source of this report remains a mystery, except that it did not originate with Colin Scoggins. Colin merely relayed information he was hearing on a conference call.

Footnote: - Colin Scoggins believes the person who gave the "false" information on the telecom call was David Canoles at FAA HQ. Canoles asserts that "has no knowledge of AAL 11 being reported headed south after 8:46AM."

Originally posted by 911files
So this is my problem with ATS. Ask a simple question and all I get are people stating blatant lies and fantasy. Not one of you can show me the "stand down" order that Cheney gave, because none was given. That's it for me at ATS. No intelligent discussion to be had here. Just the same old crazy. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

The problem is, you don't even know what it means yourself, you are just speculating.

Your drivel is getting very repetitive.

Originally posted by thegameisupThe problem is, you don't even know what it means yourself, you are just speculating.

Your drivel is getting very repetitive.

See, I give you data and actual evidence (which you call drivel). You on the other hand offer .... nothing.

There seems to be some confusion as to what evidence is and is not.

Primary sources:

In the study of history as an academic discipline, a primary source (also called original source or evidence) is an artifact, a document, a recording, or other source of information that was created at the time under study. It serves as an original source of information about the topic. Similar definitions are used in library science, and other areas of scholarship. In journalism, a primary source can be a person with direct knowledge of a situation, or a document created by such a person.

The Youtube video I posted was a mix of two primary sources of data, recorded as the actual events unfolded. The RADES screen capture was annotated to identify various landmarks/targets, but otherwise unaltered. There is no primary source evidence of a stand-down order being given by Cheney (or anyone else for that matter) presented in this thread. I am NOT speculating. I am presenting the primary source record of what happened. Now you can either counter with evidence of your own, or continue to display your inability to do so.

Originally posted by thegameisup

Originally posted by 911files
So this is my problem with ATS. Ask a simple question and all I get are people stating blatant lies and fantasy. Not one of you can show me the "stand down" order that Cheney gave, because none was given. That's it for me at ATS. No intelligent discussion to be had here. Just the same old crazy. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

The problem is, you don't even know what it means yourself, you are just speculating.

Your drivel is getting very repetitive.

It is quite telling that you call primary sourced evidence drivel, and you accuse 911Files of posting drivel, yet you and others in this thread have yet to post anything at all that is even close to evidence. It's not surprising that you are a "truther" spewing only a stream of hot air...

John, you may as well try to explain quantum physics to a baby. They don't understand what you're talking about. That's why they are "truthers" in the first place... It's called ignorance and they want to remain that way...

Originally posted by thegameisup

Originally posted by 911files
So this is my problem with ATS. Ask a simple question and all I get are people stating blatant lies and fantasy. Not one of you can show me the "stand down" order that Cheney gave, because none was given. That's it for me at ATS. No intelligent discussion to be had here. Just the same old crazy. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

The problem is, you don't even know what it means yourself, you are just speculating.

Your drivel is getting very repetitive.

This post of yours just typifies why I rarely post anything here any more. I have been around 9/11 issues long enough to appreciate that 911files has taken vastly more trouble to investigate the facts than I would ever have been able to do.

I am impressed that way back he concluded there were several final seconds missing from AA 77's flight data recorder data. It has since been confirmed that he was quite right and I wonder what similar contribution you have made.

Frankly you sound like the village idiot telling Issac Newton he is writing "drivel".

reply to post by 911files


You have provided nothing that is real evidence. Do you have the transcript of what Cheney said behind closed doors, you know, the statement he gave with Bush, without being under oath. The statement he gave with Bush so they could not trip up on their stories, the one done behind closed doors so they did not have to answer questions.

Where is the statement? You got it? I didn't think so. You have no real evidence.

reply to post by thegameisup


Previously, you accused 911Files of speculation and you have the audacity to come up with this behind closed doors garbage. You've just demonstrated the epitome of hypocrisy.

You have no evidence of a "stand down" period because there was none. For all you know Cheney and Bush could have masturbated behind closed doors. You have as much evidence for that as anything else.. It amusing to watch you squirm in an attempt to prolong your imaginary conspiracy...:

Originally posted by thegameisup
reply to post by 911files

 

You have provided nothing that is real evidence. Do you have the transcript of what Cheney said behind closed doors, you know, the statement he gave with Bush, without being under oath. The statement he gave with Bush so they could not trip up on their stories, the one done behind closed doors so they did not have to answer questions.

Where is the statement? You got it? I didn't think so. You have no real evidence.

Do you have a Bush/Cheney transcript ? No ? Oh well that's the end of the "inside job" bo*llocks then.

Could it be... The late Roger Misner aka Ultima1 posting from beyond the grave?

reply to post by Anonymous404


Exactly. Which means they knew where that plane was heading. They let it happen. Conspiracy.

Point. Set. Match. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
notice the impossible loop that flight 77 takes? it is way slower than said 500 knots after the loop, flight 77 accelerates then disappears off the radar. after the pentagon. it had radar signature after it goes over the pentagon......odd.

I saw that not long ago.. do you happen to have a photo or video of the event? though I will say it was a simulation of the actual radar. not sure if they have official animation recording in real time and or if they showed a video or something akin to a desktop recording for an official radar reading.

Also, lots of people in and around the pentagon were quoted (I only heard 2 people personally) state it sounded like the plane flew over them and something dropped down onto them or hit them from the side because they could hear the plane continue on. and I believe one said something about powering up like a plane kicking into after burners. That seems odd in all that chaos someone could remember that or even register it. Now why doesn't the Pentagon release external footage? we don't need to see the injured. I mean no disrespect tot hem or their families just a big giant commercial plane coming right at the building. what's the problem with that?

reply to post by stew4media

Now why doesn't the Pentagon release external footage? we don't need to see the injured. I mean no disrespect tot hem or their families just a big giant commercial plane coming right at the building. what's the problem with that?

I think the problem is that the footage doesn't exist (any longer). Or they are just holding it for the right time to release it to either shut everybody up because it was really what they said it was or if it wasn't use it for some political purpose.

Originally posted by stew4media

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
notice the impossible loop that flight 77 takes? it is way slower than said 500 knots after the loop, flight 77 accelerates then disappears off the radar. after the pentagon. it had radar signature after it goes over the pentagon......odd.

I saw that not long ago.. do you happen to have a photo or video of the event? though I will say it was a simulation of the actual radar. not sure if they have official animation recording in real time and or if they showed a video or something akin to a desktop recording for an official radar reading.

Someone may have made a video of it, but radar did not show that. Two different things. People can make all kinds of videos. We just learned that P4T manipulated radar screenshots to make it look like United 93 and United 175 did a "swap" mid-air, so anything is possible on Youtube. That however does not make it true.

AAL77 did not appear on radar after the Pentagon. Period.