No more worship of the troops

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Now where did your head just take an obvious statement and a clear question that you haven't answered yet.Again deflection by counter accusation,and a socio-political one at that.I would say such an answer would come from someone who was into political science or schooled in it,a democrat ,possibly a socialist. and incapable of admission of realities in the current world situation. Yes it is sad ,I know it is, I did it. That is why the sacrifice in the effort is respected I'm told,or at least acknowledged.It sure as hell wasn't enabled by me as you and this thread clearly infer to.So get up and stop it, that is what you should do, it doesn't solve anything to blame us. You with your superior intellect need to stop war.
War you have heard of that many times,your family wouldn't have lived at a small atoll without it.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

Demanding me to be thankful smacks of elitism.

They are trained to think of themselves as better than everyone else, though. That is something we need to take into account, to be completely fair. American society is brainwashed at every level, and soldiers probably get it more than the rest. The replies I've seen in this thread, as well as the standard military responses I see in most other places on this forum, have provided me with abundant evidence of that.

I've tried to explain before, though; that them being brainwashed, by itself, doesn't make me angry. The problem is when they refuse to recognise that they are brainwashed, and then try and convince other people who are able to access other information (due to not being constrained by "need to know," issues and such) that it's actually the civilians who are ignorant.

I'd have a lot more respect for the grunts on this forum, if they would at least acknowledge the fact (which again, isn't just a theory, but is borne out by their own responses to me) that they don't know anything other than what they get told; and that the fact that the current American administration is probably the most secretive in history, means they most likely don't get told very much.

Look at the way the government responded to Bradley Manning, guys; and figure it out for yourselves. The government wants to treat us all like mushrooms; keep us in the dark and feed us s%^&. They're able to do that somewhat more effectively with you, because your lives are under tighter control by them.

reply to post by petrus4


Yet again "us not you logic".No I'm not brainwashed.I don't like video games because they DO BRAINWASH you. A subject on which you have yet to show any authority,MONARCH,MANNEQUIN ,that is brain washing.We do know a great deal more about military subjects warfare and it's execution than civilians.We did it ourselves.I think you mistake confidence for arrogance.We needed that to survive.You have to believe in yourself when you nearly die to get up and do it again.
Better than you? I don't think that is a viable statement.I am quite inferior to most in many ways.I need not prove that but you'll just have to take my word for it.If I disagree it is because I think you are mistaken and have said so. Blanket statements of who I am based on your opinion will inevitably be mistaken.It is a form of bigotry just as it would be to say all are the same of any group, culture or race.
Worse we are called criminals,you seem to support that.Now I'm defending my family.
I of course expect the FACTs to bear things out the troops aren't responsable,period.
To illustrate a point I do know others who are current and ex military.I know former elite military and a PRC who is in fact a trained ninja( far fetched but true). These people tell me and I base my opinions on them and what I see in reference books,the internet and sites like this one.I am better than you in military knowledge and it's application.Its purpose is based on a racial failure.That isn't our fault.I did what I was best at doing at the time.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;

So what? All that shows is how STUPID people are these days to enlist in the US Military or I should say the Military Industrial Complex as Eisenhower warned against.

All these soldiers since my birth in 1968 have NOT fought one battle for our FREEDOM, yet the all acted as stooges to do the politicians and lawmakers bidding.

Do I respect the US serviceman who are fighting and are getting killed every year with these unjust wars? Hell No. They made their bed, they must lie in it. It was their choice. There is No draft.

I say, let these stupid people fight and die. it's cleaning out the gene pool. Now, if there was a REAL threat to our Freedom i'd be the first in line to protect our freedoms from a hostile invader and would be proud of anyone who does but the situation today is Not about that. It's about politics and money and greed and power.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by petrus4

 

To illustrate a point I do know others who are current and ex military.I know former elite military and a PRC who is in fact a trained ninja( far fetched but true). These people tell me and I base my opinions on them and what I see in reference books,the internet and sites like this one.I am better than you in military knowledge and it's application.Its purpose is based on a racial failure.That isn't our fault.I did what I was best at doing at the time.

I accept this.

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
reply to post by sonnny1

 

When I am at a laundry mat and a military person is there comes back and shows me his tattoos that look like the Denver airport murals, guys on tanks in black death mask holding a machine gun.

I don't know if he had some kind of prophetic experience as well. well perhaps a world war holocaust, it looked pretty darn scary. *sorry, Take advantage of my ability to Edit. No more worship of them.

edit on 25-6-2012 by MarkScheppy because: as

When does having a Tat , make someone an evil person ? Really, whats next ? The Military ,and its people who serve , have made sacrifices ,that many cant say , they have. Its the mental baggage,along with the horrors of war,that many have not had to face. A suggestion ? Go to a VA , and talk to some of the Vets. Maybe you will have a different outlook when it comes to this so called "worship" attitude .

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Now where did your head just take an obvious statement and a clear question that you haven't answered yet.Again deflection by counter accusation,and a socio-political one at that.I would say such an answer would come from someone who was into political science or schooled in it,a democrat ,possibly a socialist. and incapable of admission of realities in the current world situation. Yes it is sad ,I know it is, I did it. That is why the sacrifice in the effort is respected I'm told,or at least acknowledged.It sure as hell wasn't enabled by me as you and this thread clearly infer to.So get up and stop it, that is what you should do, it doesn't solve anything to blame us. You with your superior intellect need to stop war.
War you have heard of that many times,your family wouldn't have lived at a small atoll without it.

edit on 25-6-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: Finished my point

I am a libertarian, if you could even call me that.

and i am wholly unschooled, outside of teaching myself how to be what i do for a profession now.

reply to post by petrus4


Because I have done so in a professional manner I was able to preserve life.When we capture Iraqi Troops the first thing my platoon did after frisking them was feed them get them warm and make sure they were removed to a more controlled area in case of a counter attack.I alone guarded about 200 of them.That was confidence on my part.The intelligence officer arrived and I briefed him on what we had done, he was angry that we had done so because he wanted to use that as leverage for interrogation. I informed a major "They were soldiers doing their duty and we mitigated suffering ..SIR". I then pointed out an officer who was mad at Saddam for abandoning his unit without food or supplies,he thanked me and dismissed me to return to the front lines.
I do not ,by any stretch of the imagination, want anyone else to see what it feels like to kill anyone.Much less see the result.I had to clear an armor unit after we attacked it with air and artillery,because that is a reconaissance job.
If anyone on this board is happy to hear that they must be children or psychopaths.
If someone else was drafted,and they were gentle spirits what exactly do you think such a sight would do to them? I was strong enough to take their place,so I did it because I love my country and that was my expression of it.Not killing.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Then you'd better learn more about how these bastards operate.You're missing key details and parroting ideology that isn't true.
I am an independent,libertarians are cool but they haven't got a chance in American politics.....yet.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


I think we are playing a different game. I don't want to have a chance in American politics. I want to have a chance to be left the hell alone to work, love my family, and live my life. It is what America was founded on, and anything counter to it is what I rail against.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I am speaking in favor of your children NOT fighting and a warrior who CHOOSES to do so since there will be another fight,what ever TPTB call it.That will be inevitable,they will start another war.That isn't a game.If no one volunteers they will start a draft unless you're capable it's a death sentence.
We haven't developed beyond darkness yet.

I think that the solution to a lot of military "issues" is conscription.

If you have to have a large professional military, then everybody must serve. That would have the effect of removing the celebrity status from military people and the effect of forcing the population to take its government's political decisions a lot more seriously.

"Outsourcing" military service to the poor, the young and the dumb (for the most part) is handing a big political club to the warmongers, the people for whom war is a money making proposition.

And that brings me to General Smedley Butler, author of War is a Racket. He thinks private enterprise should be drafted along with people during wartime. The aim would be to force corporations to work for costs, put them on the army pay scale and take the profit motive out of war.

In a couple of generations America's perspectives on war would change completely. The era of boys and their fighting fantasies will have ended. Everyone on the planet could buckle down and get on with the job of solving humanity's problems, not just Haliburton's problems.

reply to post by petrus4


There is something that many folks here don't know or remember about Nazi Germany and its genocide:

that by that time the Jewish community and political dissenters were overrun by PACIFISTS, who made sure that the regime would meet no forceful opposition to its agenda. The Jewish community was led by a bunch of polite, civilized liberals who did nothing concrete to keep the Holocaust from happening.

It was somewhat challenged by a few insurrections from within, like the Treblinka uprising, but most of it was just too late.

Hence, the dictators powers are not only seated on a repressive regime, but also on the pacification of their political/social opponents.

Read:How Nonviolence Protects the State

These days, political dissent is relatively taken over by priests and priestesses of the Nonviolence cult... that was all over most of the Occupy actions, as well as the Tea Parties, and the recent labor strikes. This makes me worried...

I am more troubled about the pacifist influence in social dissent than its violent repression by authorities.

reply to post by ipsedixit


No then the wrong people get screwed over and put into a place they have no business occupying and get people killed.Our volunteer forces beat them every time.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

No then the wrong people get screwed over and put into a place they have no business occupying and get people killed.

Everyone would get trained.

Our volunteer forces beat them every time.

There is a great danger apparent when one thinks of the words "beat them" in a slightly different way. There are people who believe with some reason that America's volunteer forces are being prepared to "beat" ordinary Americans in political crises to come.

I think all Americans should participate in America's wars and not just as cheerleaders.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


For the most part, neither participant in a war really wants to be there. Maybe moreso in the Iraq insurrection, but they were fighting for something(s).

You propose a method to keep my son from fighting: allowing the all volunteer army to do its thing. My proposal is more like: lets only make war when it is on our shores. The only real difference between the two is that in mine, we save trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives.

I have clearly stated that there is a time for war. I follow that up by saying that nowhere in the last 70 years has it been "that time"

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


If you wait until they arrive on our shores we could be overrun or blindsided.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by projectvxn

 

I have tried to express myself in such terms, but often the words have failed me.

It's hard to explain your three decades of service to someone who never has served, ya know? They just don't understand.

Thank you for your words, I think that you may have made my life easier.

edit on 24-6-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)

30 years of service requires no explanation. I'm about to graduate AIT with my aviation wings and I dont feel the need to explain myself to anyone.. You shouldn't either.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


That is an oft used argument based on the slippery slope fallacy. The Military Industrial Complex can no more see the future than we can.

Besides, if you attack before you are attacked, it is not justified. Ever since WWII our soldiers have done what they are told, and it has generally ended up being a string of wars of aggression.

Like i mentioned earlier: i am not a highly educated person. What I have is a lot of varied experiences that I base my opinions on. One of those is the time my mom spent on Kwajelein, and the stories that come from it. Another is a person I know who spent time serving with the Army as a medic. 2 years of his service was spent on monthly, or sometimes weekly, deployments to Costa Rica to guard drug crops.