Freemasonry renounced by hundreds of (Christian) Barbadians

reply to post by JoshNorton

No idols at all. Just God.

Which God?

If it isn't the father of Jesus Christ then it would be a false idol....no?

reply to post by JoshNorton

The Taxil hoax and the Pike/Mazzini hoax are dead give aways that it's a waste of time.

Oh so the quotes taken from Morals and Dogma are false you say? And Pike never wrote an edict for the “23 Supreme Councils of the world” hmmm? Can you please explain your reasoning and/or provide links to back up what you are saying, rather than make vague statements about things being hoaxes?

Originally posted by seabag
Which God?

You believe there's more than one omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent creator of the universe?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Oh so the quotes taken from Morals and Dogma are false you say?

Taken out of context. Read the sentence before the common quote, and the sentence after.

And Pike never wrote an edict for the “23 Supreme Councils of the world” hmmm?

No. He didn't.

Can you please explain your reasoning and/or provide links to back up what you are saying, rather than make vague statements about things being hoaxes?

Pike/Mazzini hoax

Oh so the quotes taken from Morals and Dogma are false you say?

Taken out of context. Read the sentence before the common quote, and the sentence after.

What ever you say... believe what you want.

And Pike never wrote an edict for the “23 Supreme Councils of the world” hmmm?

No. He didn't.

The only thing that wiki page says about the passage is "While this quote was published by Abel Clarin de la Rive in his Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry, and does not appear in Taxil's writings proper, it is sourced in a footnote to Diana Vaughan, Taxil's creation.[6]"... conventionally enough reference 6 is no longer available.

Can you please explain your reasoning and/or provide links to back up what you are saying, rather than make vague statements about things being hoaxes?

Pike/Mazzini hoax

That page mentions nothing about the passage in question. In fact the author states "The matter at hand deals with an alleged “three world war” prediction from famed Mason, Scottish Rite Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike.". That has nothing to do with this...

reply to post by seabag


Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I was at a 20 year class reunion, 1000 miles from where I live, and it is Saturday night afterall. But I am here now for the debunking, so let me say this.......... so what?

Who cares what some 100 random people think about a private group they aren't even members of? Masons don't go around recruiting, and we don't interfere in anyone else's business, and we aren't out picketing churches, and we don't forbid any Masons from being members of any church. So, if 100 people in Barbados want to not be Masons..... so what?

For the record, your Mason friends are right, there is nothing in Masonry that would contradict anything in Christian beliefs. We do not promise heaven, and we do not name any specific god, and we do not ask anyone to worship any particular way, and our Degree work (they really aren't "rituals") does not constitute any false-god worship. It has nothing to do with religion, except we do ask them to pray a time or two, but they can pray however they wish, to whomever they wish.

There, hope that suffices, now back to more important things.

reply to post by JoshNorton


smokescreen smokescreen smokescreen....

Crowley and Ordo Templi Orientis Crowley became involved with Theodor Reuss and his Ordo Templi Orientis following the publication of The Book of Lies between 1912-1913. According to Crowley's account, Reuss approached him and accused him of having revealed the innermost (sexual) secret of O.T.O. When it became clear to Reuss that Crowley had done so unintentionally, he initiated Crowley into the IX° of O.T.O. and appointed him "Sovereign Grand Master General of Ireland, Ioana and all the Britain's." Originally only members of the highest degrees in O.T.O were initiated in sexual magic. Drawley expanded however initiation of sex magic techiques also to other membership degrees. VIII°: masturbatory or autosexual magical techniques were taught, referred as the Lesser Work of Sol IX°: heterosexual magical techniques were taught XI°: anal intercourse techniques as sexual and magical were taught One of the most well-known O.T.O. rituals, the Gnostic Mass, denoted by Crowley as the central ritual of the Order, is a complete exposition on sexual magic in symbolic form. The central formula of this ritual, repeated numerous times throughout the text, is the Gnostic formula IAO. Crowley wrote extensively on the topic of sex magic. Some of these works were published and made available to the general public, others were secret and could only be obtained by initiates of Ordo Templi Orientis. from valentinadoriadianemacdonald.tripod.com...

GO TO THE LIGHT CAROL ANNE

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Oh so the quotes taken from Morals and Dogma are false you say?

Taken out of context. Read the sentence before the common quote, and the sentence after.

What ever you say... believe what you want.

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.

The sentence before the one taken out of context.

The only thing that wiki page says about the passage is "While this quote was published by Abel Clarin de la Rive in his Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry, and does not appear in Taxil's writings proper, it is sourced in a footnote to Diana Vaughan, Taxil's creation.[6]"... conventionally enough reference 6 is no longer available.

Here is a copy of the article that cite 6 originally linked to.

That page mentions nothing about the passage in question.

Not that passage, no, but it was brought up in the Illuminati & Lucifer thread that you were linking to. Again, a reason I ignored that thread.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Ya, all that sexual stuff would be pretty difficult with no women in an open Lodge. Sure would get attendance way up though!! Too bad that stuff is bogus, cause I think our little fraternity would be running over with new recruits if even 1% of that stuff was halfway true.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by seabag
Which God?

You believe there's more than one omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent creator of the universe?

No....

But masons only need to pledge to "A" God, not a specific God.

Don't try to play games and misinform!

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.

The sentence before the one taken out of context.

And the sentence after it... how can this be misinterpreted? And how do you know you're not overlooking the subtle wording concerning the 19th degree, and therefore misinterpreting the above sentence?

Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!

Here is a copy of the article that cite 6 originally linked to.

Thanks for the link, but you'll have to forgive me if I can't fully trust an article written directly by biased Mason sources. I also find it very suspicious that the final proof of the hoax comes down to a footnote which contains a vague reference to a character supposedly created by Taxil... while it never actually appears in any of his writing.

Either way, hoax or not, that still doesn't change my concerning the true beliefs held at the top of the pyramid...

Originally posted by seabag
But masons only need a pledge to "A" God, not a specific God.

Well, as you pointed out, there's only one. So no problem, right?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Either way, hoax or not, that still doesn't change my concerning the true beliefs held at the top of the pyramid...

Believe whatever you like. I've had dinner with the top of the pyramid and am quite comfortable with them carrying on as they have been.

reply to post by getreadyalready

For the record, your Mason friends are right, there is nothing in Masonry that would contradict anything in Christian beliefs.

I beg to differ…

The guy with the goofy outfit will speak for me…answer his claims.

We do not promise heaven, and we do not name any specific god, and we do not ask anyone to worship any particular way, and our Degree work (they really aren't "rituals") does not constitute any false-god worship.

You do not name any specific God!!

There is only ONE! That would contradict Christian teaching, no?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Would you like a primer on Pike's beliefs concerning an evil enity?

First, as a learned man, he laughed at the idea that there was a being called "Lucifer".

Most biblical scholars agree that it amounts to a typo in one translation. The fact that it was repeated in the King James translation, the most popular today, just blew things up out of proportion. I'll offer you this post I made two years ago that offers one such opinion.

Now, back to Pike, I think it's best summed up in his chapter on the 32°.

—Of that Equilibrium between Good and Evil, and Light and Darkness in the world, which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good: by attaining to the knowledge of which equilibrium we can, through Faith, see that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty.

Sympathy and Antipathy, Attraction and Repulsion, each a Force of nature, are contraries, in the souls of men and in the Universe of spheres and worlds; and from the action and opposition of each against the other, result Harmony, and that movement which is the Life of the Universe and the Soul alike. They are not antagonists of each other. The force that repels a Planet from the Sun is no more an evil force, than that which attracts the Planet toward the central Luminary; for each is created and exerted by the Deity, and the result is the harmonious movement of the obedient Planets in their elliptic orbits, and the mathematical accuracy and unvarying regularity of their movements.

Morals & Dogma, page 859-860. Emphasis added, but I'll repeat what Pike wrote: "there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God".

Yes. There is evil in the world. There is evil in man. But God is omnipotent, and thus evil cannot exist without being part of His plan. It is by suffering that we can learn to have joy for the good around us. If we never had sadness, would our lives be worth anything? How could we appreciate the beauty of the world if we could not contrast it with the horrible? Thus is God's will.

This was Pike's position.

But unfortunately, the philosopher forgets all the laws of equilibrium, and seeks to absorb the Light in a splendor without shadow, and movement in an absolute repose that would be the cessation of life. So long as there shall be a visible light, there will be a shadow proportional to this Light, and whatever is illuminated will cast its cone of shadow. Repose will never be happiness, if it is not balanced by an analogous and contrary movement. This is the immutable law of Nature, the Eternal Will of the JUSTICE which is GOD.

page 847

reply to post by JoshNorton


JN, I had dinner with the top of the pyramid too. When was your meal? In February of 2010 I ate a four course meal of Squash soup, Lentil Soup, Wild Rice and Chicken soup, and a main course of Barley soup with the top of the pyramid. I noticed that they were very noisy in their slurps and that the topics of discussion around the dinner table were quite upsetting indeed.

They spoke to me for hours of how their initiation based fraternities are nothing more than esoteric pyramid schemes and that they will NEVER run out of lost secrets to be disclosed after numerous installed payments. They laughed when I mentioned the soul and wiped both grains and broth out of their mustaches with savings bonds.

Originally posted by seabag
The guy with the goofy outfit will speak for me…answer his claims.

I don't argue with YouTube videos. Either interact with me as a reasonable adult or don't.

reply to post by JoshNorton

I've had dinner with the top of the pyramid and am quite comfortable with them carrying on as they have been.

I never said anything about their beliefs being "evil" or "wrong"... in fact I believe the Luciferian (not Satanic) perspective is much closer to the truth than the typical Christian indoctrination garbage.

reply to post by protocolsoflove


Well, I'll say one thing, that Ronnie Seale is a smart guy wearing a bow-tie when he slurps his soup. Those of us with proper cravats were spilling things left and right.