Prepare To Have Your Mind Boggled

I just want to present you with a couple of statements... Food for thought.

Add seven positive 1s, and seven minus 1s... You arrive with the sum of zero... Despite the fact there are *actually* 14 numbers.

Is zero the absence of one "single" thing, or the presence of multiple things?

What is the distinction between matter and empty space? Empty space, cannot be empty space, for it holds the potential for *all* form in the partical world.

All energy is available from empty space.

Form is emptyness, and emptyness is form.

There's no such thing as nothing.

The universe either appeared from *nothing* .. Or has always existed, and has *no beggining*.

FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TROLLS, THE MIND BOGGLING BIT IS TRYING TO COMPREHEND HOW EVERYTHING IS SPRUNG FROM NOTHING, AND YET THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NOTHING.

I'm sorry, if that don't boggle your mind, you don't have one.

ETA: As the fellow below me cannot read, or does not under stand the difference between the words "boggled" and "blown".. I sharnt try discussing matters of the universe with him.

Still waiting for my mind to be blown, are you trying to rewrite some mathematical and physics laws or what?

You forget that..

Up is down
Left is right
east is west
good is bad

Yay! Equating opposites is logical and deep!

reply to post by Sinny


I think the issue at had is trying to put a math formula , and a physical property . Zero is a construct of our preception , but the space it self , exists without us here or not. Its putting a square into a triangle hole. Which is why the classic physics and quntum physics don't tango . Different levels

Originally posted by Sinny
I just want to present you with a couple of statements... Food for thought.

Add seven positive 1s, and seven minus 1s... You arrive with the sum of zero... Despite the fact there are *actually* 14 numbers.

Is zero the absence of one "single" thing, or the presence of multiple things?

amazing how math works eh? think of a "0" like a black hole.

What is the distinction between matter and empty space? Empty space, cannot be empty space, for it holds the potential for *all* form in the partical world.

still doesn't make it filled with anything to become less..empty

All energy is available from empty space.

how?

Form is emptyness, and emptyness is form.

perhaps..

There's no such thing as nothing.

depends on your perspective

The universe either appeared from *nothing* .. Or has always existed, and has *no beggining*.

everything has a beginning.. otherwise nothing would have a middle or an end.
and as you said there is no such thing as nothing.

Elvis is dead
Long live Elvis

This is one of those things that can drive you absolutely insane thinking upon.. Which I find myself doing 95% of the time, driving myself crazy thinking. lol

I think personally everything that is.. has always been.. No beginning and no end. It just cycles over and over and over for ever.

Cheers for helping me go a bit more over the edge

reply to post by LoonyConservative

The future looks dark my friend, very dark. Best don those protective goggles soon....
ETA2 Caption reads:

Estimated distribution of matter and energy in the universe, today (top) and when the CMB was released (bottom).

and source.




ETA What is faster, the speed of light or the speed of dark?

There's actually 15 numbers, can't say there's no such thing as nothing and forget to count 0

Ah........theres no such nothing as thing.........very profound

reply to post by Sinny


i think you're confusing mathematics
with metaphysics

i think your meditations need to simmer in the alembic a while longer

if you know what i mean

reply to post by LoonyConservative


Erm, no.

Its food for thought, you clearly don't have the brain capasity to comprehend what I just presented, Startruth understands the paradigm.

reply to post by Sinny


Interesting concept - I came across this conundrum years ago in relation to our time line. Was there a 0 A.D or 0 B.C in Anno Domini system of the Gregorian calendar? Apparently not and it is not counted.

From Wikipedia - "Year zero does not exist in the Anno Domini system usually used to number years in the Gregorian calendar and in its predecessor, the Julian calendar. In this system, the year 1 BC is followed by AD 1. However, there is a year zero in astronomical year numbering (where it coincides with the Julian year 1 BC) and in ISO 8601:2004 (where it coincides with the Gregorian year 1 BC) as well as in all Buddhist and Hindu calendars".

"Counting intervals without a zero"

"The absence of a year 0 leads to some confusion concerning the boundaries of longer decimal intervals, such as decades and centuries. For example, the third millennium of the Gregorian calendar began on Monday, 1 January 2001, rather than the widely celebrated Saturday, 1 January 2000. Likewise, the 20th century began on 1 January 1901.
This rule arose because the Gregorian calendar begins with a year 1 instead of 0. Cardinal and ordinal numbering of years is therefore identical: The year 10 is the tenth year of the calendar and the end of the first decade. The year 11 is the first year of the second decade, and so on. In spite of this rule, years ending in 0, rather than 1, are commonly perceived as marking the beginning of a new decade, century, or millennium.[1] Decades, however, are more used as a collective term (e.g. the 1930s) rather than a periodical term (e.g. 1930–1939)".

Food for thought - cheers for your post S&F.

reply to post by Sinny

TO use a banking analogy, you borrow 7 pounds, you repay 7 pounds. We'll forget the interest, we're members of the same board. There are still 7 pounds, it's just you don't have them anymore. Yup, sucks for you.

In computing at least, zero is a viable choice and the first "number".

Empty space is rarely, if ever, truly empty. According to experts. Somewhere... Most matter is also nothing but empty space.

Energy is all around, light, heat, motion, vibration, sound, radioactive poisoning from broken nuclear reactors....

The form vs emptyness thing is one of those fallacies I forget the name of. Because a, therefore b type nonsense. One of them is true, not both.

No one knows.

Oh well, back to my beer I guess for the mind-blowing.

Can I just ask trolling idiots to keep off this thread.

(Slap round the face for me, for thinking I could have a decent discussion on ATS)

So, you are saying that there is no such thing as nothing? Which means...Nothing is the only thing that does not exist.

The only thing that is nothing....Is nothingness itself....

But to say that there is no such thing as nothing is to say that something does exist that is nothing...Nothingness itself...

So...Nothing...is a thing...

I think....Am I close to understanding? I really am trying.

Vote Truth_2012

Originally posted by Sinny
Is zero the absence of one "single" thing, or the presence of multiple things?

edit on 23-6-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

Oh, interesting. Thanks for sharing. Here is a question - in a region of space where there are no particles, does time exist? If so, what is keeping track?

Oh, I've never thought about zero that way before. After all, something with zero charge does have present multiple positive and negative elements that cancel each other out.

Maybe in the beginning there was a universe and an anti-universe? That would equal nothing.

So what you're implying is absolute nothingness contains everything, that the whole universe is a "borrowed" quantity that will need to be repaid one day ? I do like the idea that all the black holes in the universe collapse back to the original singularity that began the whole thing so it's all one big circular event, then again i might have stayed up too late.

reply to post by Sinny


I think you are confusing physical form with numerical representation.

Most of what you have stated is just word play and means nothing in reality.

Its like saying zero isnt nothing as it contains 4 letters

reply to post by Sinny


If I sit and think too hard, I stumble.
But if I look at the entire meaning, I see similar thoughts.

Here's my problem/question:
How can ideas spawned from the brain of a miniscule creature (per scale of universe) possibly comprehend what it is we now know as "mathematics". If I really think about it, I ask myself how do we dare think that all there is to this universe is what we presume? If history tells us anything it's that humans are wrong about alot of ideas/theories. We are so egocentric to think we know it all. I think we are just now beginning to understand a few ideas. Almost as if the human mind has merged with technology and expanded exponentionally in a short time span...(50 years or less).
But the universe has such a large time frame.


Then I stop thinking.
Sorry for going offtopic.



ETA: I like your idea and I believe that the universe started from something.
There was/is always something. It was never "nothing".
Zero is just a representation of the lack of something.
I think that's what I gathered and agree with.