What are your thoughts on quiverfull, religious (Christian) patriarchy, and Proverbs 31 women?

Quiverfull is a movement among some conservative evangelical Christian couples chiefly in the United States, but with some adherents in Canada,[1] Australia, New Zealand, Britain and elsewhere.[2] It promotes procreation, and sees children as a blessing from God,[2][3][4] eschewing all forms of birth control, including natural family planning and sterilization.[5][6] Adherents are known as "quiver full", "full quiver", "quiverfull-minded", or simply "QF" Christians. Some refer to the Quiverfull position as Providentialism,[7] while other sources have referred to it as a manifestation of natalism.[8][9] Currently several thousand Christians worldwide identify with this movement.[5]

Biblical patriarchy (also known as Christian patriarchy) is a set of beliefs in evangelical Christianity concerning marriage, the family, and the home. It sees the father as the head of the home, and responsible for the conduct of his family. Notable adherents of biblical patriarchy include Douglas Wilson,[1] Michael Pearl,[2] R. C. Sproul, Jr.[3] and Douglas Phillips. Notable publications include Patriarch magazine and Above Rubies.[4] The biblical patriarchy movement has been said to be "flourishing among homeschoolers.

We want to encourage women to serve God in every aspect of their lives.

1. Faith - A Virtuous Woman serves God with all of her heart, mind, and soul. She seeks His will for her life and follows His ways. (Proverbs 31: 26, Proverbs 31: 29 – 31, Matthew 22: 37, John 14: 15, Psalm 119: 15

2. Marriage – A Virtuous Woman respects her husband. She does him good all the days of her life. She is trustworthy and a helpmeet. (Proverbs 31: 11- 12, Proverbs 31: 23, Proverbs 31: 28, 1 Peter 3, Ephesians 5, Genesis2: 18)

3. Mothering - A Virtuous Woman teaches her children the ways of her Father in heaven. She nurtures her children with the love of Christ, disciplines them with care and wisdom, and trains them in the way they should go. (Proverbs 31: 28, Proverbs 31: 26, Proverbs 22: 6, Deuteronomy 6, Luke 18: 16)

4. Health – A Virtuous Woman cares for her body. She prepares healthy food for her family. (Proverbs 31: 14 – 15, Proverbs 31: 17, 1 Corinthians 6: 19, Genesis 1: 29, Daniel 1, Leviticus 11)

5. Service - A Virtuous Woman serves her husband, her family, her friends, and her neighbors with a gentle and loving spirit. She is charitable. (Proverbs 31: 12, Proverbs 31: 15, Proverbs 31: 20, 1 Corinthians 13: 13)

6. Finances - A Virtuous Woman seeks her husband’s approval before making purchases and spends money wisely. She is careful to purchase quality items which her family needs. (Proverbs 31: 14, Proverbs 31: 16, Proverbs 31: 18, 1 Timothy 6: 10, Ephesians 5: 23, Deuteronomy 14: 22, Numbers 18: 26)

7. Industry – A Virtuous Woman works willingly with her hands. She sings praises to God and does not grumble while completing her tasks. (Proverbs 31: 13, Proverbs 31: 16, Proverbs 31: 24, Proverbs 31: 31, Philippians 2: 14)

8. Homemaking – A Virtuous Woman is a homemaker. She creates an inviting atmosphere of warmth and love for her family and guests. She uses hospitality to minister to those around her. (Proverbs 31: 15, Proverbs 31: 20 – 22, Proverbs 31: 27, Titus 2: 5, 1 Peter 4: 9, Hebrews 13: 2)

9. Time - A Virtuous Woman uses her time wisely. She works diligently to complete her daily tasks. She does not spend time dwelling on those things that do not please the Lord. (Proverbs 31: 13, Proverbs 31: 19, Proverbs 31: 27, Ecclesiastes 3, Proverbs 16: 9, Philippians 4:8 )

10. Beauty – A Virtuous Woman is a woman of worth and beauty. She has the inner beauty that only comes from Christ. She uses her creativity and sense of style to create beauty in her life and the lives of her loved ones. (Proverbs 31: 10Proverbs 31: 21 – 22, Proverbs 31: 24 -25, Isaiah 61: 10, 1 Timothy 2: 9, 1 Peter 3: 1 – 6)

Though I am not Christian, I find I feel very drawn to each of these movements in a non-religious way. I am a woman who intends to homeschool, who is my husband's helpmeet, who thrives when I am under his rule. I would like to have a quiverfull of children one day.

What are your thoughts on each of these movements?

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
avirtuouswoman.org...

I think we've moved beyond this kind of primitive thinking.

Women have equal rights in the world and no longer have to ask permission to do anything and that's the way it should be. A woman shouldn't have to spend her life serving others.

On the issue of procreating like mad, the world is populated enough. We can't take care of the people we have now.

You want to serve your man and have a crap load of children, go for it. As long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on me in ANY way, I don't have a problem with it.

I wouldn't touch the organization with a fifty-foot pole, as I think it's antiquated, flies in the face of progress and equality, and it's my belief that the LAST thing we need is more children (Have you checked out the behavior of children lately?) but if it floats your boat, have at it.

I think all religions and sub-sects of religions are cults.

reply to post by aaaiii


I am actually a feminist. And yes, we do have rights. I am allowed to have a job and be as strong and independent as I want to be, but I have found I prefer something else. I would never ask another woman to choose what I choose.

That's what feminism is. The right to choose your life goals.

reply to post by cetaphobic


I want to see what it says about a virtuous man!!

I am so tired of the same old crud talking about what WOMEN should or shouldn't do in the *name* of religion.....

I am however, all for women following their own drummer, what ever beat that may be!!!

reply to post by Starwise


I believe that most of the other times the word virtuous is used in the Bible is for a man, warriors specifically. A virtuous man is one who fights for Christianity.

In the eyes of the God of the Bible, at least.

I think you are very noble and I say may God bless you and keep you, and give you the desires of your heart. I pray that I can be everything my wife needs. She is also a hard worker and supports me through my idiot adventures. Through all the tough times, I believe He has saved us, and no one will change my mind. Praise his name.

reply to post by cetaphobic


I failed on #7, I grumbled. I guess I was tired of waiting for some mutual exchange of respect. *shrugs
Funny that I never hear of Man's duties.

Originally posted by aaaiii
I think we've moved beyond this kind of primitive thinking.

Women have equal rights in the world and no longer have to ask permission to do anything and that's the way it should be. A woman shouldn't have to spend her life serving others.

On the issue of procreating like mad, the world is populated enough. We can't take care of the people we have now.

edit on 6/23/2012 by aaaiii because: (no reason given)

u act like guys don't bend over backwards to make there women happy these days and always have, (im talking about men that actually love there women). its the d*ck heads that make it seem like women get treated like trash, which the women in those cases actually do get treated bad, i think the whole feminist thing is just something for certain women in this world so they have something to drive them, ever since i was a kid women are women and men are men and we both have strengths and weaknesses and all the same rights, advantages and disadvantages for each gender, anybody still fighting the feminist fight is just wasting time , , were im from your focus, not a affiliation with a civil rights group determines ur reality no matter who you are. this isn't directly towards you just all the feminists that chime in here, it just seem you have femicidal tendicies so i replied to this post

reply to post by cetaphobic


I think if you hadn't stated the source of those "guidelines", you may have gotten more support. People tend to look at who says what, or any agenda there might be, before what is said. And then people wonder why they don't learn things.

I'm not a part of that sect, or any other, but I think that to a point, they make sense. 9 and 10 especially stood out for me. Sounds like someone I know, and love, and those qualities seem to put her above everyone else. This is just my opinion, but I think if people stopped using words like "Lord, God" and "Jesus", more positive things would get accomplished. Unless you're a hermit, you know that simply by attaching those words to messages you are going to lose people. It can be frustrating, but you're kind of doing it to yourself. And I really don't see how, by taking those words out of the message, it's taking "God" out of our lives. It's still the same message isn't it?

Let me give you an example. I'm going to state some Rules, or guidelines, that certain people follow but I'm not going to tell you who they are. Without knowing who they came from, ask yourself honestly if they make sense to you. When you give yourself an answer, then look it up to see for yourself. ( I'm sure someone at some point in this thread will know what they are. All I ask is you don't spill the beans in public for those who don't)

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

After you find the answer you may not believe a word of it because of pre-set prejudices. Again, pay that no mind and ask yourself, honestly, do you agree with those rules? My point is that people need to pay more attention to what is said rather than who says it. Who gives the message doesn't make it right or wrong, good or bad. The message itself does that.

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm derailing your train OP, I don't mean to, it's just where my thoughts took me. All in all, I agree with the guidelines. They just need to be worded a bit different so they don't come across as so old fashioned. Kinda like number 5 and some others in the list I gave. Some of the wording makes it sound so "animalistic" and extreme. It can put people off.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I am a non-Christian. I aim to follow these guides as a Pagan. I understand that some may be closed minded and unable to see how these things might be desirable simply because it has God in it, but I'm really not here for them.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


The eleven satanic rules of Earth. Yes they make about as much sense as any other rules.

reply to post by cetaphobic

I want to see what it says about a virtuous man!!

I am so tired of the same old crud talking about what WOMEN should or shouldn't do in the *name* of religion.....

I am however, all for women following their own drummer, what ever beat that may be!!

The quiverfull movement, from what I know about it, sets extremely rigorous standards for male conduct. The husband is supposed to "cleave to his wife," not look at pornography certainly; but not even fantasizing about other women, which is seen as adultery of the heart.

The ideal of conduct for husbands is the "servant leadership" outlined in Ephesians. Various authorities have differing visions of what this means, but needless to say ideas like sitting in front of football on the TV all afternoon, or hiding out in a "man-cave" are pretty alien to it. Dads are expected to "lead" the education of the children, as spending hours with them every day---homework, playing, family projects, etc.

This is not the 1950's view of mom as homemaker while dad is 'away at the office.' Not Ward who comes home to smoke his pipe and render verdict on how June is doing with Wally and Beaver. The QF dad is supposed to be there with his kids, and leading them in helping mom with all aspects of family life---chores, meals, Bible study, etc.

Originally posted by aaaiii
I think we've moved beyond this kind of primitive thinking.

Women have equal rights in the world and no longer have to ask permission to do anything and that's the way it should be. A woman shouldn't have to spend her life serving others.

On the issue of procreating like mad, the world is populated enough. We can't take care of the people we have now.

edit on 6/23/2012 by aaaiii because: (no reason given)

Who said women do not have equal rights?

I would like to point out something most people miss when reading The Virtous woman;
SHE HAD A SERVANT.
There is no way a woman then or now, could do all those things without becaming adrenally compromised.

But as guidelines go, they are pretty good.

What if you could get to heaven without joining a Church? All you need is THE KEY, to unlock the DOOR.

That KEY is Jesus, the bodily persona of God. Just ask Him to show Himself to you. Invite HIm to have a talk.

Then find the Essene version of the New Testament. Jesus knew all about the vibrations and energy of Gemstones, and the Herbs and their healing properties. And the non-Babylonian astrology; where your EM field is set when you exit from your mother's EMField. and how your crystalline DNA is affected by the vibrating crystals in the planets, on a daily basis.

The Church has been infiltrated by the enemy of God too, and has got rid of all the 'magic';

Walking on water is basically Telekinesis.
Jesus used Telepathy and 'knowing'.
He could understand and talk with the animals.
He made living birds from clay. Etc etc.

And the definition of Pagan is 'Country dweller'.
It is not the opposite of Christian, but rejecting Jesus is.

Oh yeah, Men being in charge was part of their curse for messing around with the Serpent. Go easy on them, they had something taken away from them, that we as women got to keep.
That is why the Inquistion singled out women, the Catholic church knew what it was.

reply to post by cetaphobic

Though I am not Christian, I find I feel very drawn to each of these movements in a non-religious way. I am a woman who intends to homeschool, who is my husband's helpmeet, who thrives when I am under his rule. I would like to have a quiverfull of children one day.

It's a waste of time if you're not a believer. You can do whatever but honestly, you'd just be wasting your time.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Doing what makes me happy is not a waste of time.

I like some of these tenets, specifically Health, Service, Industry, and Time, but the other ones are too... I guess "patriarchal" is a good word. I also reject the religious aspect of it; I enjoy being of service to others, but I do it because it makes me and others happy, not to please a god.

I trust my husband's judgement, but we're in a democratic relationship. I feel as if we come to better solutions when we talk everything out: two heads are better than one in our case. I'm sure the Quiverfull movement isn't trying to stifle discussion within marriage, but I resent the fact that the man is cast into an automatic leadership role. I don't like the assumption that only a man can lead a family, or that a family can't be co-led by both partners equally.

About Quiverfull specifically; I've read they are not a big fan of contraceptives, and that they believe in having lots of children for the army of god. Okay, cool. I wonder what their Church leaders' advice would be in circumstances when a woman can't conceive, or when it would be dangerous for her to get pregnant. Is is really the women's choice, or are they being forced to live up to some religious standard? (I know this question would have to be on a person-to-person basis, everyone has different motivations.) What if they can't afford more children, are they advised to keep having them anyways? All questions I'll probably never get an answer to.

I wouldn't personally choose this lifestyle, but everybody is different and what wouldn't work for me might be another person's saving grace. I'm critical of any religious movement, it's just my nature, but I would never tell someone they couldn't choose their own mode of living/happiness. So my thoughts on the matter are really moot, even to me.

Originally posted by cetaphobic
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Doing what makes me happy is not a waste of time.

I did say you can do whatever you want.

reply to post by cetaphobic

Sorry, I don't buy into it. In my home, my wife is the Queen. She is above all of us, and I am her enforcer and consort. She handles all finances.