Turkey says Jet Downing cannot be ignored

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

So...........it seems like the F-4 was shot in international airspace, according to Turkey.

Turkey on Sunday accused Syria of shooting down one of its warplanes in international airspace, as a watchdog said the Damascus regime suffered new setbacks and violence reached new heights.
"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria," Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told TRT television.

SOURCE

Well that is crap. No AAA gun can shoot 13 nautical miles. The plane was either in Serian Air Space or it was not shot down by AAA.

Yes very true .. pure crap

They said it was no missiles .. just normal ammo made to shot down air planes

Would it mean the plane was damage after being shot, made a U turn and flew a few mile to reach international waters ?
would he have time to contact his QG ?

these is even more hole in that theory
but its this or they simply lie

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

So...........it seems like the F-4 was shot in international airspace, according to Turkey.

Turkey on Sunday accused Syria of shooting down one of its warplanes in international airspace, as a watchdog said the Damascus regime suffered new setbacks and violence reached new heights.
"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria," Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told TRT television.

SOURCE

Well that is crap. No AAA gun can shoot 13 nautical miles. The plane was either in Serian Air Space or it was not shot down by AAA.

Well, we all knew that this was coming anyways....they needed an "excuse" and now they have it. Now, if this "excuse" will be "used" by NATO still remains to be seeing, but we all know that it doesn't take much to start a war when "they" want one.

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

So...........it seems like the F-4 was shot in international airspace, according to Turkey.

Turkey on Sunday accused Syria of shooting down one of its warplanes in international airspace, as a watchdog said the Damascus regime suffered new setbacks and violence reached new heights.
"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria," Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told TRT television.

SOURCE

Well that is crap. No AAA gun can shoot 13 nautical miles. The plane was either in Serian Air Space or it was not shot down by AAA.

Well, we all knew that this was coming anyways....they needed an "excuse" and now they have it. Now, if this "excuse" will be "used" by NATO still remains to be seeing, but we all know that it doesn't take much to start a war when "they" want one.

OHHH but Article 5 is very clear
a Nato reconnaissance Airplane being shot down in international water

This is what they have been waiting for its the perfect incident
even better .. the AA was apparently russian and controlled by Russian Engineers
that mean Russia veto would become irrelevant on Syria
one of the only thing that was stoping a further conflict was their veto

Be worried... this might turn into WW3
Syria Iran Russia and China know they need to back each other on this
look how Russia is already involved .. they probably have thousand of russian troops already
operating and protecting the air defense to shot any Nato incoming plane

Nato was clearly the agressor
guess who has been formenting the rebellion with terrorist inside Syria
each day we see on the TV probably manipulated number
but always high numbers .. they need to make this war "legal" in their sense of view

I think it's a little bit ridiculous that everyone is immediately assuming that the response would be military.

There are plenty of other ways Turkey could "retaliate" without firing a single weapon.

Please consider that other nations make statements about retaliation all the time, and although there's a lot of drama about it it usually means sanctions, economic obstacles, removal of ambassadors...

I won't be surprised if we do see Turkey retaliate militarily, but I think we should all wait before we start screaming that they're about to attack.

At the very least it'll make a lot of people here look like idiots if all they do is freeze their bank accounts and raid the offices of Syrian businesses.

reply to post by detachedindividual


In my opinion, it's better to expect the worse and be prepared for it......I prefer to expect that something real bad will happen from it, then to get caught by surprise, specially since Russian is east of where I live at. They have tried to invade several times in the past whenever there was a World War event and I don't think it will be different this time around if it comes down to WW3. I know we are mainly talking about Syria's possible invasion, but now the Russians seem to be involved in it too, so for my own sake(and my little family's) I am expecting the worse and am "kindda" ready for it...

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

In my opinion, it's better to expect the worse and be prepared for it......I prefer to expect that something real bad will happen from it, then to get caught by surprise, specially since Russian is east of where I live at. They have tried to invade several times in the past whenever there was a World War event and I don't think it will be different this time around if it comes down to WW3. I know we are mainly talking about Syria's possible invasion, but now the Russians seem to be involved in it too, so for my own sake(and my little family's) I am expecting the worse and am "kindda" ready for it...

So what preparations are you making? How does discussing this on a forum help you stock up on food or find a path out just in case?

I'm not saying people should not think about it or prepare (I think about the likely scenarios of everything from a war with Russia to the collapse of the $ and €) but speculating wildly on a forum like ATS and everyone jumping to conclusions about what a nation like Turkey will do in response doesn't help anyone.

This is just a waste of people's time until something happens. This kind of speculation doesn't help any of us, it just makes ATS seem even more paranoid and delusional.

Once again I think everything is plausible in this situation, but judging by past events it is not a foregone conclusion that military response will be taken by Turkey in this instance, and many people here are - IMO - embarrassing themselves by assuming that this is the only response they could give.

Except that while Turkey has asked for a NATO meeting to discuss a possible response, this is probably the best thing they could have done. Both sides are doing everything they can to calm things down. Syria has apologized, and Turkey has admitted they violated Syrian airspace. They Syrian Foreign Minister has even gone on Turkish television to say they have no hostility towards Turkey. The longer this goes without shooting at each other, the better this is.

If Turkey was looking for an excuse to invade or attack Syria, they have had provocation before this to do so. There have been several incidents of Syrian military forces shelling across the border into Turkey. Turkey has been less than innocent in this entire situation as well. But as long as both sides are talking, and there isn't just a kneejerk reaction, then this can be settled peacefully, or even just ignored as a tragic accident if the crew isn't found.

Why is Syria the bad guy for using air defense to protect their own legal airspace?
How does it make them aggressive?

Isn't it more aggressive to send jets into their airspace provoking this stuff?

And yeah if it was AAA that brought the F4 down they had to be in fairly close.

Oh and did anyone notice how strange it is that here in 2012, a huge global crisis could be created by a few random people using weapons from the 1950s-60s?

But then again WW2 was started with a box of matches and a few lies. So anything is possible I guess.

reply to post by Zaphod58


In a way for Turkey it would almost be as if they were opening a second front in their current war paradigm.

I consider the air and artillery strikes against the Kurdish rebels as an actual war, especially considering the amount of resources it costs Turkey to fight it.

Although in theory Turkey could potentially handle a 3 front war, it would prove quite costly on the moral and finances of their nation.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Syria is considered the aggressor here because there are several USUAL steps that are taken BEFORE shooting. It's generally accepted practice to warn them off first over Guard (121.5) and warn them they're going to be fired upon if they don't immediately leave the airspace. If the reports are accurate that the aircraft only briefly entered Syrian airspace and was back over international airspace before the Syrian battery opened fire, then under technical law, Syria WAS in the wrong to fire AFTER the incursion had ended.

This jet had nothing to do within Syrian borders or even around them. Especially by these tumultuous times. It's either an agression or a provocation. NATO is gathering already... Surprising?

To me it looks just like another planned trigger pull.

What if a Syrian jet was around any "allied" country? Would be considered as a terrorist attack, shot down and applaused straight away by MSM, the US black fascist fuhrer, the bitchy demona merkel and all the sons of # I forget to mention.
This world is disgusting and I'm really fed up with all this crap.

reply to post by CityFarmer


Except that even shooting down the plane doesn't give NATO an excuse to attack. If an attack is made Turkey will have to go it alone. Under the NATO treaty this doesn't qualify as an attack on Turkey. And the cross border shelling was too long ago to qualify since it was a month or more ago. It's a little late for them to start screaming about their territory being threatened because of it.

Indeed, but they may be able to bring it up as passed events, and call for stronger border protection, or border protection aid, with that in place an attack on that would be all that is needed,


though, we are merely speculating,

Originally posted by MrWendal
Does anyone here believe that if China was flying a recon aircraft over the US mainland, we would not shoot it down?

We would have sent up two fighter escorts and attempted to make radio contact with the plane.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
But then again WW2 was started with a box of matches and a few lies.

That's a bit of a reach.

WW2 can be traced back to the loss of the German Empire in WW1 and the following escalation of German nationalism, which peaked in an angry young man called Adolph.

Originally posted by CityFarmer

What if a Syrian jet was around any "allied" country? Would be considered as a terrorist attack, shot down and applaused straight away by MSM, the US black fascist fuhrer, the bitchy demona merkel and all the sons of # I forget to mention.
This world is disgusting and I'm really fed up with all this crap.

No it wouldn't have been. During the height of the Cold War, when tensions were highest, we constantly had Soviet aircraft flying along our airspace. And American aircraft flying along Soviet airspace. There were a few shoot downs of American aircraft by the Soviets, but for the most part, the aircraft were intercepted by fighters, and escorted out of the area. There was even an informal treaty after awhile that fighters would refrain from locking up the aircraft, and if the aircraft had tail guns (Tu-16, Tu-95, I BELIEVE Tu-22) then the tail guns would be set to their highest angle up, and away from the intercepting aircraft.

The most that usually happened was exchanging pictures of Playboy Playmates by either side.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Thanks for this piece of information. But do you think the situation is the same today? Do we stand in the same political/economic context? I don't know what is said about this incident in your area but around here the press qualifies it as HIGHLY INACCEPTABLE and SHAMEFUL. It doesn't seem like the case is closed at all.

Well I guess we'll well see. One case is not another. You look like you know what you're talking about so I'm asking you this. What's your opinion on Lybia for instance? Or on Ivory Coast? Legit war/putsch because real threat? Or strategic leadership implementation?

Don't you think a common line can be drawn between these countries? Isn't the invasion method kind of always the same? (Problem/Reaction/Solution "pattern')

Anyway I can see a mediatic common line in the MSM. Just have a close look at which words are used, who they concern and which increasing general direction these words take. I studied journalism/communication and I know how the weight of words is important. There's always 2 ways (or more) to describe someone/something. Every medium has an editorial policy. Which means a journalist can say whatever he wants to say (most of the time) but not with any tune of voice, with any word he wants (which is IMO already an open window to altered information)

When I read MSM press articles about the middle-east, I've got a strong feeling that an idea of Evil/Good is being pushed into my head. Which I don't like at all. The facts only should be telling me the truth, not the formulas used to describe them. If that's not propaganda tell me what you would qualify it.

Peace

My BS meter is going up again:

I might be a bit late on this news but this is what i conclude

Just learned that the Nauthilus an American vessel were conveniently in the area
to recover the downed bodies of the 2 turkish pilots
they say they were the only ones in the area
and to avoid losing time thats why they were apparently asked first
to recovers the bodies ..

There is already a conspiracy about the plane ..
Syria tried to communicate with them but no answer .. because no pilots were in it
it was a suicide drone run to make a false flag and test the syrian air defense at the same time
so if you believe this theory .. you will certainly suspect the Nauthilus hired by the americans
big surprise .. now they have 2 turkish bodies to "proove" syria murdered them

dont know if turkey was involve in this by giving the americans
2 dead soldiers that were already in the morgue in the freezer
just had to put them in the water for a couple of days before putting the bodies in black bags
saying it came from the Neuthilus

how plausible is that ?
if you know the illuminati well .. they are very good at deceptions games

Indeed, such 'coincidences' seem to happen to the US frequent,

needed 'Proof' of where the plane was downed i presume

By most accounts, Turkey is ITCHING to hit Syria, but the US knows Turkey's plane was in Syrian space so the US is preventing Turkey from doing anything.