Turkey says Jet Downing cannot be ignored

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
Of course they say that, they are staring down the barrel of the full might of NATO and are about to be annihilated.

Do you know how much it costs to unleash the "full might of NATO"? Now who in NATO do you think is willing to put down the $$$ right now? And what are their primary priorities? To avenge a single plane that probably violated sovereign airspace?

In either case a ground incursion by NATO can most likely be ruled out anytime soon. And airstrikes like in Libya are hardly "full might". When did airstrikes ever annihilate the leadership of a country or key figures in recent years? They didn't kill Milosevich, they they didn't kill Bin Laden, they didn't kill Saddam, nor Khaddafi. They could make things very tough for Assad, but will not directly annihilate him.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
This incident should demonstrate how easy it is for NATO to jump in at a moments notice with their entire might and wipe the mat with anyone in the region. Iran should be shaking in their boots.

NATO is very wary of full-scale ground invasions, especially in Syria and Iran. Large number of casualties will be unavoidable. Also it is not as easy as you describe. Look at Iraq - months of preparation and billions of dollars in logics support is necessary before the fighting even starts. And most NATO members will likely opt out, because as I said they got other priorities.

Both sides will play this incident down. Turkey is likely embarassed, and will not seek to escalate it beyond some angry fist shaking.

If article 4 is fully invoked, no NATO nation willl have the option to "opt out".
It is the entire purpose of NATO, attack one attack all.

Unmanned jet probes Syrian air space and gets shot down 13 km out in the Mediterranean isn't much basis to start a war over.

It does say Russian anti-aircraft tech is operational in Syria.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
If article 4 is fully invoked, no NATO nation willl have the option to "opt out".
It is the entire purpose of NATO, attack one attack all.

You got to be kidding me - artice 4? How would this invoke article 4? And who do you think actually has the power to invoke article 4? If anything, an idiot move like that would lead to disintegration of NATO.

I can say with utmost certainty it will not come to that. NATO is run by accountants and politicians as much as it is run by the military.

reply to post by Regenmacher


It is tech manufactured in Russia but most likely operated by Syria. As for the jet - I believe it had a pilot or two pilots.

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
If article 4 is fully invoked, no NATO nation willl have the option to "opt out".
It is the entire purpose of NATO, attack one attack all.

You got to be kidding me - artice 4? How would this invoke article 4? And who do you think actually has the power to invoke article 4? If anything, an idiot move like that would lead to disintegration of NATO.

I can say with utmost certainty it will not come to that. NATO is run by accountants and politicians as much as it is run by the military.

This incident may not invoke article 4, but before this incident people were scratching their heads wondering how NATO could legitimately pounce on Syria.
Now it has been demonstrated it is a rather simple afair, with Turkey a solid member of NATO bordering on a hostile Syria.

Well Ben, i think you must have been expecting (this as was i,and man others) the Turkish Govt has its cuasus Belli, and the world will soon be spectator or participant in a messy and danger fraught situation....The ranifications of which none can predict.
The NWO will have its chaos from time to time, from which to pull the tighter knit and more ridgedl controlled society,that will be the embryonic NWO emerging.
Turkey has designs on the huge natural gas depisits off of Cyprus.....(They are hoping to strengthen their hold
on the island during this conflict, almost as an aside to it...)
This also explains the recent Turkish disafection with their old ally Isreal, as Isreal is also moving into position to expoit the gas deposits.....(through contracts with the other end of the island,,,greece)
Hoo boy it goes back into the rabbit hole a looong twisted ways....!
I think we will see many little intercountry scenarios like this acted out overthe course of the current destabilisation plan for the middle east.
There will besome battles fought, and sides switched backwards and forwards before it ever settles down....
Standing back here on the west coastof North America, it looks to me ike the first skirmishes of the oil and gas wars are being plaed out before our eyes....The Stupid humans will exhaust the fuels of the planet in the next century, b expending them in wars for fuel to fight more wars for fuel.....
Insread of intelligently co operating to find new sources of clean reuseable energy.....
There will be blood....
There is no other course of action contemplated by any politician or military strategist......
So we will die, or rather kill ourselves off, by turning on each other ike rats in a cage for the fuel to power our survival....Till all the fuel is....gone...............

If this plane was flying in Syrian airspace, then there no act of war in shooting it down. The act of war would be invading the airspace of another country.

Does anyone here believe that if China was flying a recon aircraft over the US mainland, we would not shoot it down?

So a plane goes down and a couple of pilots may be dead.

"Something Must Be Done" he says.

And of course that 'Something' will be to kill 1,000's of innocent civilians that had nothing to do with it. But, they don't matter do they?

Kill 2 of their Military and the answer is to retaliate with killing 1,000's of Non-Military.

I only hope that those making these decisions somehow get caught in the cross hairs themselves.

Peace

Originally posted by jude11
So a plane goes down and a couple of pilots may be dead.

"Something Must Be Done" he says.

And of course that 'Something' will be to kill 1,000's of innocent civilians that had nothing to do with it. But, they don't matter do they?

Kill 2 of their Military and the answer is to retaliate with killing 1,000's of Non-Military.

I only hope that those making these decisions somehow get caught in the cross hairs themselves.

Peace

You say that with no concern of the civillian non millitary Assad is slaughtering on a daily basis. Double standard detection.

Do not get your hopes up for the current Turkish Government about a serious retaliation. The Erdogan government here in Turkey is known for its empty talks and no action. Remember the Davos and the Marmara in İsrael...what happened afterwards....nothing... Erdogans government is subcontracted by US in Middleeast to do their police work.(after the tiring afgan ane iraq wars) So the plan is working and causes to retaliate for Syria are being built up by our puppet government. Wait and see similar plans will be put in place for İran by the big brother US and again subcontracted to Turkish Government. the tin line here is that the Erdogan Government can not be trusted....Also the big question is; does Erdogan have the guts to take action against Syria?...that question also can not be answered by the big brother as well.. thats why NATO is not doing anything about the latest plane downing incident right now.and probably wont move a finger about it..(remember the time when war against iraq was gonna start from northern iraq but at the last moment cancelled by the numberly dominant Erdogans partys parliament)....

So game is big and we have yet moves to follow.......

I have a feeling that if Assad is deposed all christian churches that went unmolesed for years will suddenly be burnt down and their members executed. We know who wants control of Syria and why, one more stepping stone on the way to reviving the Ottoman Empire.

reviving the Ottoman Empire is just the wet dream of Erdogan...only in their dreams.....the game is bigger than that.. its mainly about natural resources and their distribution lines between Russia, China, US, and USs' puppy dog Turkish Goverment. So, thsi plane downing situation is just tip of the iceberg, we need to put more attention to the much much bigger picture.. no one wants to get their hands dirty right now, they want Erdogan to get his hands dirty for god knows what promises made by the big players(US, Europe???)....

Lets go a few years back. Erdogan and Assad were very close friends for years, but then all of a sudden about a year back they became enemies like flick of fingers. why???....also this question begs to be anwered? How come all of a sudden a big operation in Turkey called Ergenekon has taken place in Turkey imprisoning most of the anti- US generals and other ranked soldiers and press members, writers....and so on. How come Erdogans goverment is elected here in Turkey year after year????..... Who is Gulen Movement?? what are their relationships with the Cia, and vatican and also israel?????....


oh boy....the picture and the puzzle is to big with too many actors...

forgive the grammer, i happen to write too fast without looking at my screen....





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Ummmm nothing will be done militarily-you can scratch that off the list.

ISTANBUL—Turkey on Saturday vowed to take "necessary steps" to respond to the downing of a Turkish military jet by Syria on Friday, but signals from Ankara and Damascus suggested neither wanted a military confrontation over the incident

online.wsj.com...

Turkey has shown remarkable restraint to be honest... The number of times Syria has violated Turkeys sovereign territory by shooting across / firing artillery across going after fleeing refugees, it was only a matter of time before something like this occured.

Turkey was discussing with their NATO counterparts back in April about invoking article IV because of the constant cross border violations.

As for the comment about the air defense eing Russian it is irrelevent. They would need permission from Syria to actively engage in that manner. So either russia acted without Syrias permission, for an unknown reason we most likely could speculate about, or they acted with full knowledge and approval of Assads regime.

The scenario that makes me nervous is this one.. We now have another power involved who spent their entire time vetoing UN resolutions, warning others to stay out, only to get involved themselves, and to do so in such a manner that it is going to drag in the larger powers.

On a lighter note, who is scared of some jive wild turkeys? Haha, their very name strikes fear among all nations.

reply to post by Juggernog


www.rt.com...
Looks like it.

Nothing is going to happen:

ISTANBUL—Turkey on Saturday vowed to take "necessary steps" to respond to the downing of a Turkish military jet by Syria on Friday, but signals from Ankara and Damascus suggested neither wanted a military confrontation over the incident

online.wsj.com...

"Long planned mission" nothing related to the incident yesterday.

Originally posted by Ranong
reply to post by Juggernog

 

www.rt.com...
Looks like it.

reply to post by Regenmacher


Unmanned jet? Which shootdown is this? The F-4 in all variants has two crew members, a pilot and either a weapons systems officer, or a recon systems officer (both know as the GIB, Guy In back)