Who says you can't get here from there?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
I can desire to live in an America only but at the same time I also desire to live in France and where a scarf

edit on 25-6-2012 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

You continue to display zero logic. If you do not see why you can not simultaneously desire to live ONLY in America while also desiring to live in France you can not be helped. Two opposite things can not both be true. When you understand this let me know and we can continue this debate with actual logic.

You have no understanding of psychology or what the word desire means or what opposite means. and I really don't think you know what logic is. Right now I desire to go to sleep and to continue posting at the same time. This is true and impossible at the same time. a delema.

Why do you think I need your help?

"Two opposite things can not both be true. "

maybe read up on quantum physics?

Schrödinger's cat
en.wikipedia.org...'s_cat

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
The only assumption I make is that they posess superior technology, do you think we posess the technology to travel to other solar systems or galaxies? If not then you agree with me. If you do, I can't help you.

That asumption is what you base everything on.

do I think we can make it to other galaxies? Not right now.

I dont agree with you.

I am certainly not interested in your help for anything since my logic is far superior.

How is your logic superior. They can get here with their technology. We can not get there with ours.
Your logic says we have superior technology. Where is there any logic?

Tell me the logic of how they can do what we can't and yet you believe our technological abilities surpass their own. I can't wait to hear this.

WHAT? Why don't you draw your logic tree out and post it here?
A: there is a sighting
B: Hypothesis 1: They are Aliens from another galaxy
C: Can they get here from there?
D: If they are from another galaxy and they got here, yes.
E: what kind of tech do they have? Unknown.
F: Why would they allow themselves to be seen? Unknown.
G: Does some dude from the internet have it all figured out? not even a little bit.

Why is hypothesis 1 Aliens? Let's run with it though, maybe you will actually answer my question this time, doubt it though.
1. Do they possess technology that allows them to get here? Yes.
2. Do we possess technology that would allow us to get there? No.
3. Who possesses the superior technology? You answer this one. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

why is hypothesis 1 aliens? because it is hypothesis 1? Is there a reason it cant be?

who posses superior technology? it depends on what your assumptions are. define "superior" please. since you don't understand what "motive" means it is logical to assume that you dont know this either.

The question can not be answered since I have know idea how they got here. maybe it was an accident? It is really a bunch of unknowns so trying to apply logic like you are doing is futile and ....silly

How about you define superior. If you do not see how a species able to travel here has superior technology you are being disingenous and intentionally being difficult. You refuse to answer simple questions and can't follow the simplest of logic (such as two opposite statements can not both be true). Have a good night, I am done, you have been shown to be wrong time and time again, we both know it. Good night.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

How about you define superior. If you do not see how a species able to travel here has superior technology you are being disingenous and intentionally being difficult. You refuse to answer simple questions and can't follow the simplest of logic (such as two opposite statements can not both be true). Have a good night, I am done, you have been shown to be wrong time and time again, we both know it. Good night.

Actually you have not shown how I was wrong at all. In fact I pointed out several things that were wrong with your statements. Your biggest point is " two opposite statements can not both be true" which if had you read even the most basic introduction to quantum physics, you would know that this statement is wrong. Now if you read the link I provided about the cat thing, I think that you will see that you are wrong.

If there is a alien race out there capable of traveling the speed of light. Even traveling at the speed of light is a inefficient form of travel considering just our galaxy alone is 100,000 to 200,000 light years across. So in order to travel galaxy to galaxy throughout the known physical universe you probably would have to travel in a parallel dimension where there are no physical laws.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

How about you define superior. If you do not see how a species able to travel here has superior technology you are being disingenous and intentionally being difficult. You refuse to answer simple questions and can't follow the simplest of logic (such as two opposite statements can not both be true). Have a good night, I am done, you have been shown to be wrong time and time again, we both know it. Good night.

Actually you have not shown how I was wrong at all. In fact I pointed out several things that were wrong with your statements. Your biggest point is " two opposite statements can not both be true" which if had you read even the most basic introduction to quantum physics, you would know that this statement is wrong. Now if you read the link I provided about the cat thing, I think that you will see that you are wrong.

You keep spouting crap, quantum mechanics has nothing to do with this. You can not have made both a left and a right turn. This is basic logic. You do not grasp it. You try to make yourself sound intelligent, you do not. Also that is not my biggest point, that is my smallest, most basic point. It just happens to be you can't progress to anything bigger because you fail to grasp the simplest of concepts.

Originally posted by sean
If there is a alien race out there capable of traveling the speed of light. Even traveling at the speed of light is a inefficient form of travel considering just our galaxy alone is 100,000 to 200,000 light years across. So in order to travel galaxy to galaxy throughout the known physical universe you probably would have to travel in a parallel dimension where there are no physical laws.

edit on 25-6-2012 by sean because: (no reason given)

Well there are many theories of how it would be possible. Travelling at the speed of light would almost certainly not be a plausible method. This only further cements my premise that any alien race visiting Earth has technologies far beyond our comprehension, and an understanding of the universe that makes us mere infants.

Unless you want to listen to the other people here saying they are getting here with inferior technology to our own.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
There is no empirical evidence for alien beings. Something unknown is not evidence for aliens.

Agreed. The evidence does not point necessarily to alien beings, but it does point to intelligently-controlled objects being seen in the 1940s that are far in advance of the known human technology of 2012. What those objects actually are we can only try to surmise through reasoned speculation.

As far as your ultimatum to choose between "they don't want to be seen" and "they don't care if they are seen", why couldn't it be the case that they do want to be seen, but only on a limited basis, so that they prefer to remain hidden under some circumstances and to display themselves in other situations?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

How about you define superior. If you do not see how a species able to travel here has superior technology you are being disingenous and intentionally being difficult. You refuse to answer simple questions and can't follow the simplest of logic (such as two opposite statements can not both be true). Have a good night, I am done, you have been shown to be wrong time and time again, we both know it. Good night.

Actually you have not shown how I was wrong at all. In fact I pointed out several things that were wrong with your statements. Your biggest point is " two opposite statements can not both be true" which if had you read even the most basic introduction to quantum physics, you would know that this statement is wrong. Now if you read the link I provided about the cat thing, I think that you will see that you are wrong.

You keep spouting crap, quantum mechanics has nothing to do with this. You can not have made both a left and a right turn. This is basic logic. You do not grasp it. You try to make yourself sound intelligent, you do not. Also that is not my biggest point, that is my smallest, most basic point. It just happens to be you can't progress to anything bigger because you fail to grasp the simplest of concepts.

Actually I grasp your point but it is incorrect. I pointed out how it is incorrect several ways. First it is incorrect to assign human motivations to something unknown. Second, doing so destroys your argument since humans have conflicting motivations all the time. The quantum thing I brought up sort of fits.

Also I am surprised your superior logic did not understand I never stated they wish to remain hidden.

yes you did...and in your very next sentance.
Statement 1

I stated only one can be true,

Statement 2

either they wish to remain hidden

Staement 3

or they do not care if they remain hidden.

Both STATEMENTS can be true for any number of reasons if they do such things as "wish" or "care".

This is not assigning them any property or evaluating motives,

yes it is. wishing, caring and desiring are motives which you have assigned to the "beings".

it is simple logic

No, it is not.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
You can not have made both a left and a right turn.

depending on your angle of perception.....also if you you make 3 lefts, is this not a right turn? and who said anything about left and right turns anyway? I think the discussion is lights on UFOs and your assigned human motivation to an unknown entity

WE: are a carbon life form, with plus/minus 60% water mixed in with the minerals, powered by chemical reactions, and we generate electricity! Seems strange as we look at the words; alien almost, don't you think? Will we compare favorably with the other life forms we are bound to encounter in the near future? Will we even recognize other creatures if we see them? Will they even be visible to us? The possibilities are enormous! Exciting! Scary! Just like life. Let us keep an open mind, and stay the hand that kills that which it does not understand. Let's get off our collective asses, and seek out our brothers and sisters. Soon. If we don't find them...who cares? It's the journey that counts. If indeed there are no others out there; then we should do what we always do: claim the land as our own, and populate it. So let's get going, let's move out into the stars; who knows what we'll find, or who may find us.

Before the jet engine was invented scientists said that it would be impossible to break the sound barrier.
They were wrong. We know a tiny fraction of physics compared to ET.
Once we realise that the medium through which light travels is the aether, or spacetime, if you prefer then we can understand that manipulation of that medium can result in faster than light travel.
Et's have said through contact experiences have said the craft travel faster than light.
Even that lockheed-Martin guy said WE can go faster than light.
So lets just realise that Einstein was probably wrong.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
You can not have made both a left and a right turn.

depending on your angle of perception.....also if you you make 3 lefts, is this not a right turn? and who said anything about left and right turns anyway? I think the discussion is lights on UFOs and your assigned human motivation to an unknown entity

No, depending on your angle of perception it may be a left to some people and a right to others, it will never be both a left and a right to the same person. Not possible. Also no, 3 left turns do not mean you made a right turn, just like having two $1 bills does not mean you have a $2 bill. The discussion is on which is it, do Aliens with to remain hidden, or do they not care. It can not be both (for the same alien). Pick one, tick tock tick tock.

reply to post by dondrews


It may be alien to you, not to me. Its fascinating and amazing, not alien, not sure why it feels that way to you. Maybe the less knowledge people have the more alien things feel. I am all for searching, not sure where anyone here including myself said we shouldnt bother looking.

Originally posted by Dr X
Before the jet engine was invented scientists said that it would be impossible to break the sound barrier.
They were wrong. We know a tiny fraction of physics compared to ET.
Once we realise that the medium through which light travels is the aether, or spacetime, if you prefer then we can understand that manipulation of that medium can result in faster than light travel.
Et's have said through contact experiences have said the craft travel faster than light.
Even that lockheed-Martin guy said WE can go faster than light.
So lets just realise that Einstein was probably wrong.

Show me where Lockheed-Martin claims we can go faster than light. Einstein is probably not wrong as every single experiment has proven him right, despite many attempts to prove him wrong. Now as far as ET having superior technology, I already said any ET who visited us would be in possession of far superior tech, others on this post said I was wrong and their tech is not superior. So which is it, do they have superior tech, or do we?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
The discussion is on which is it, do Aliens with(wish) to remain hidden, or do they not care. It can not be both (for the same alien). Pick one, tick tock tick tock.

wishing and caring are what humans do. humans can wish to remain hidden and not care at the same time. I am doing that right now....and this is with just discussing one individual. Many Individuals can have competing motivations. Where did you come up with that individuals and groups can have only one desire? It is pretty well established in psychology that people have competing motivations. Since you are applying human charateristics to something unknown, I can only answer based on what I know of humans. Since I don't know if there are greys, reptillians, robots or something entirely different occupying the craft, I cant answer since I know nothing of their psychology or if they even have psyche to begin with.

so your logic fails right off the bat since you are using human characteristics to describe aliens in a UFO. That there are even aliens occupying the thing is an assumption that you make. ...and to top it off you insist on applying a human pychology that is not even known...like you made it up while you were pooping.

before you tell me that I am not being logical with my above analysis of your ridiculous comment, break down my argument that I just laid out and tell me where it is wrong. ...and please don't state something and then in the next sentance state you didn't state that...well you can because it IS entertaining.

If there is a alien race out there capable of traveling the speed of light. Even traveling at the speed of light is a inefficient form of travel considering just our galaxy alone is 100,000 to 200,000 light years across. So in order to travel galaxy to galaxy throughout the known physical universe you probably would have to travel in a parallel dimension where there are no physical laws.

Not at all. Space and time bends.

Mark two dots on a piece of paper on the upper and lower edge. Pretend that is 200 million light years. Yes, that's a long trip. The paper is time and space. Bend it. Not exactly fold it in two, but bend it so they are close. Now how far is that trip?

Einstein was a brilliant fellow, and was on to something. But he (and us) are infants honestly in the grand scheme of things. Think of a mind like his 10,000 years.. 100,000 years.. maybe even 10 million years advanced. Do you think they could take his ideas and make them reality? I do.

Carl Sagan was an odd fellow - I've wondered if he was paid off at some point to change his stance. His stance was just that - that we couldn't be visited because of the vast distances involved. But curiously, in his younger years, he not only admitted there could be UFOs, he suggested there was a fine chance they had visited us in our past, or were doing so now. So it seems to me that someone used fellows like him to perpetuate the idea it was impossible for alien species to reach us. He was credible - and people clearly listened, because they parrot his comments about it being impossible to reach Earth due to the distances involved. Food for thought.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Just like you can go left and right at the same time. Competing motivations factor into what the final outcome is, this only further shows you have no understanding. Where did you get your degree in psychology? There may be competing motivations that conflict with staying hidden or not attempting to stay hidden, but you can not actively attempt to stay hidden while attempting to be seen at the same time. I avoid the whole concept of motivations by focusing simply on the end result, the action being taken. Your desire to continue to focus on motivations is due to your bias, and wanting to avoid logic. If I see someone walk across the street I know the action, motivations do not come into it. A person can not simultaneously walk across the street while standing still on the sidewalk. Motivation is irrelevant to your telling me if the person is walking across the street or standing still. Only one can be true, which is it. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

Just like you can go left and right at the same time.

i think you mean cant

Competing motivations factor into what the final outcome is, this only further shows you have no understanding.

agreed but how does this show I have no understanding? ..and understanding of what?

Where did you get your degree in psychology?

Rutgers. did I tell you that I had a degree in psychology? or were you trying to be facetious? Im a programmer now. what do you do?

There may be competing motivations that conflict with staying hidden or not attempting to stay hidden, but you can not actively attempt to stay hidden while attempting to be seen at the same time.

seems like you put some thought into it and changed it up a bit from your original comments. so good.

I avoid the whole concept of motivations by focusing simply on the end result, the action being taken.

I believe that you brought up motivations first and repeatidly. I just pointed out that was what you were doing....OK so now we are talking about the end result and not motivations any more human or otherwise.

Your desire to continue to focus on motivations is due to your bias, and wanting to avoid logic.

I am happy to move on from discussing alien motivations since you seem to have no need to discuss them now. what do you assume my bias to be? how am I avoiding logic? again, if you want to talk about where my logic breaks down, please demonstrate this by quoting my comments and pointing out my failed logic. please do so.

If I see someone walk across the street I know the action, motivations do not come into it. A person can not simultaneously walk across the street while standing still on the sidewalk. Motivation is irrelevant to your telling me if the person is walking across the street or standing still. Only one can be true, which is it. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

I'm confused. do you want me to answer if someone is walking or standing still? do you have a photo or something...or am avoiding logic now? And why do I have to answer your questions when you don't answer mine?

Motivation is irrelevant to your telling me if the person is walking across the street or standing still.

I have to disagree with this comment but overall motivation is irrelevant to the discusion. can you restate your premise without using wishing, caring, desiring or any other motivation type words?

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Sorry, motivation is irrelevant to actions. Are the Aliens attempting to remain hidden or are they making no attempt to remain hidden. It can not be both.

Just to add, wishing to remain hidden or not caring in no way deals with motivations. Motivations are the reasons for this. Adding the word wish does not in any way attempt to address motivations. You can look at what I said above if you desire a rephrasing, although there is zero difference.