Social Security, Ron Paul - My First Political Thread

Ron Paul planned to allow citizens under the age of 25 to opt out of the system in order to save their own money for retirement, if elected to the presidency.

I think that is a great idea. I think it's completely wrong for one group of Americans to be forced to subsidize the other group. This is what charities, churches, and other non-profits are for.

I post on another political forum, and a couple of the replies were from people claiming that we're not responsible enough to save money anymore, and that we need social security for that reason. I found these posts very helpful in understanding the whole foundation of many of these peoples political opinions.

I actually don't understand how the idea of social security was even sold to America? What was wrong with saving our own money for retirement? Why should we hand more of it over to the government for redistribution than we can ever recoup?

We would have a better chance at saving our own money than the government would IMO. A lot of folks couldn't/wouldn't do it....but a lot of folks aren't going to get it now anyway, so what's the difference? At least then we would be able to spend it how we wish and when we wish instead of watching the government play "David Copperfield" with it.

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi Scheme ever created. Madoff is spending his life in jail for the same thing done on a much smaller scale. Something is wrong with that.

Suppose you've been saving all your life and then they abandon the whole idea of money??
I think if we look just a little into the future we'll see this is very likely.

In the uk everyone who earns a wage contributes to their retirement via deductions from their earnings. It worked very well untill corrupt governments allowed the big corps to drain the country of its wealth. Now the media tell us we cant afford to pay the pensions to those who contributed all of their working life and pretend it all our fault.

Tax the big corps like they tax us and everything would be fine.

Can you show where this is on Ron Paul's official campaign website?

Sometimes Paul supporters like to spew out stuff that Paul never said or endorsed because it fits with their own personal agenda and they think that Paul thinks exactly the way they do.



reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi Scheme ever created. Madoff is spending his life in jail for the same thing done on a much smaller scale. Something is wrong with that.

Actually that's a GOP Lie. Social Security isn't a ponzi scheme at all, it's a trust fund, it's not in the general budget but safe in it's own account. It cannot be spent by the government for any other purpose.


www.ssa.gov...

Originally posted by HauntWok
Actually that's a GOP Lie. Social Security isn't a ponzi scheme at all, it's a trust fund, it's not in the general budget but safe in it's own account. It cannot be spent by the government for any other purpose.

Actually, that's an economic lie. The government is spending it through inflation.

reply to post by HauntWok


How is it not a Ponzi Scheme if I pay into it to get money out of it, only to be told that I probably won't see a dime of it?? It may be it's own fund, but like any ponzi scheme there are a huge number of folks at the bottom of the pyramid that get burned because the money just isn't there. I receive my SS statements that state that I might want to look into another form of retirement savings like a 401K because I may not see any of what I paid in....yet they still take it. Does it make it a NON ponzi scheme because they are telling me to think about alternatives?

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

How is it not a Ponzi Scheme if I pay into it to get money out of it, only to be told that I probably won't see a dime of it??

That's the problem, your being told by people who want you to take that money, and invest it in Wall Street, that the money won't be there. They are lying to you.

It may be it's own fund, but like any ponzi scheme there are a huge number of folks at the bottom of the pyramid that get burned because the money just isn't there.

But it is there, and it will be there. That's the point.

I receive my SS statements that state that I might want to look into another form of retirement savings like a 401K because I may not see any of what I paid in....yet they still take it. Does it make it a NON ponzi scheme because they are telling me to think about alternatives?

That's just smart investing. I don't want to rely just on Social Security for all of my income when I retire. I'll get money yes, but it won't be enough to really live off of. It was never designed to make you a rich person when you retire, just make sure you didn't starve to death or have to live in a cardboard box when you do.

Maybe that's why Right Wingers think it's a ponzi scheme, they think that the few bucks a week they put into it today is somehow supposed to magically translate into millions when they retire and when SSA tells them that's just not reality, they get mad and think it's a scam. No, it's not going to make you rich, it's just there to make sure you don't die of starvation and exposure when you do retire.

Originally posted by HauntWok

Sometimes Paul supporters like to spew out stuff that Paul never said or endorsed because it fits with their own personal agenda and they think that Paul thinks exactly the way they do.

Sometimes Ron Paul is a little cryptic when he speaks. But if you listen carefully and read between the lines, his message is understood.


Example:

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

How is it not a Ponzi Scheme if I pay into it to get money out of it, only to be told that I probably won't see a dime of it??

That's the problem, your being told by people who want you to take that money, and invest it in Wall Street, that the money won't be there. They are lying to you.

It may be it's own fund, but like any ponzi scheme there are a huge number of folks at the bottom of the pyramid that get burned because the money just isn't there.

But it is there, and it will be there. That's the point.

I receive my SS statements that state that I might want to look into another form of retirement savings like a 401K because I may not see any of what I paid in....yet they still take it. Does it make it a NON ponzi scheme because they are telling me to think about alternatives?

That's just smart investing. I don't want to rely just on Social Security for all of my income when I retire. I'll get money yes, but it won't be enough to really live off of. It was never designed to make you a rich person when you retire, just make sure you didn't starve to death or have to live in a cardboard box when you do.

Maybe that's why Right Wingers think it's a ponzi scheme, they think that the few bucks a week they put into it today is somehow supposed to magically translate into millions when they retire and when SSA tells them that's just not reality, they get mad and think it's a scam. No, it's not going to make you rich, it's just there to make sure you don't die of starvation and exposure when you do retire.

edit on 23-6-2012 by HauntWok because: (no reason given)

Millions of people are paying more in than they could possibly ever get back. My parents and grand parents could not possibly ever come close to recouping what they've paid in. Had that money not been taken from them over the years, they would have saved it themselves, for themselves and THEIR family. Like millions of other Americans that are working hard to support other people.

This redistribution of wealth is wrong.

Originally posted by FuZe7

Ron Paul planned to allow citizens under the age of 25 to opt out of the system in order to save their own money for retirement, if elected to the presidency.

I think that is a great idea. I think it's completely wrong for one group of Americans to be forced to subsidize the other group. This is what charities, churches, and other non-profits are for.

I post on another political forum, and a couple of the replies were from people claiming that we're not responsible enough to save money anymore, and that we need social security for that reason. I found these posts very helpful in understanding the whole foundation of many of these peoples political opinions.

I actually don't understand how the idea of social security was even sold to America? What was wrong with saving our own money for retirement? Why should we hand more of it over to the government for redistribution than we can ever recoup?

edit on 22-6-2012 by FuZe7 because: (no reason given)

You want to know the MAJOR issue with this idea? Social Security is the single biggest holder of american debt in the world right now. Bigger than any foreign holders.

If the younger generations opt out, how is that money going to get back into the circulation? Where does the debt go? Right into the pockets of those that already have it, as, if the younger generations opt out, there is no one left to owe that money to. Meaning we all just paid for this with no recourse. This comes back around to RP wanting to default on debts-which would RUIN this country, and fast.

Originally posted by FuZe7
Ron Paul planned to allow citizens under the age of 25 to opt out of the system in order to save their own money for retirement, if elected to the presidency.

Barry Goldwater attempted to promote the idea of reforming it during his run for presidency -- George Bush made attempts -- Congress on the other hand would lose power and politicians don't like losing power.

While the premise is nice and I would welcome a change in the forced system, Mr. Paul couldn't just decree one day such a plan. It would have to be reformed in Congress and any attempts to change the model (as seen in the past) is met with voracious propaganda claiming many things, but not limited to: They want to take away Grandma's money! She earned it and they want to let her end up in the streets! etc, etc.

Even my die-hard left leaning sibling is all in favor of getting the Government out of deciding our retirements.

Seriously, I read this again, and I am dumbfounded at the idea that people cant see through this. This isnt about retirement. Its about not having to pay back the BILLIONS owed to Social Security.

reply to post by HauntWok


Not everyhing is a Koch Konspiracy, not everything is the GOP lying to us, mostly its both parties lying to us.
social security takes money from new comers and gives it to old comers, that is the very definition of a ponzi scheme.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Seriously, I read this again, and I am dumbfounded at the idea that people cant see through this. This isnt about retirement. Its about not having to pay back the BILLIONS owed to Social Security.

not if people opt out and the system does not get a chance to steal the funds in the first place. Ron Paul has said a hundred times he wants to take foreign military spending and use that for social security.

reply to post by FuZe7

Had that money not been taken from them over the years, they would have saved it themselves, for themselves and THEIR family. Like millions of other Americans that are working hard to support other people.

Let me ask you, how much do you have saved for retirement now? How much does your family have saved for their retirement? Your friends?

Do you have that in a savings account? A mutual fund? A 401K? How safe are the investments that rely on wall street in order to preform?

If what you said is true than that would prove that the right wingers are lying that Social Security won't be there when they retire. If what you said is true, there would be an endless surplus in the Social Security trust fund.

This redistribution of wealth is wrong.

:Sigh:

So, again, do you go into a store, purchase items you want to buy, and then leave them at the store because you believe that taking what you paid for is wrong?

reply to post by Lord Jules

social security takes money from new comers and gives it to old comers, that is the very definition of a ponzi scheme.

That's not the way social security works, the old comers are getting back what they put in, the new comers will get back what they put in. That's how it works. The right wingers want to lie to you so that you will take that safe investment and give that money over to the same people who sold Americans sub prime mortgages, bundled them, chopped them up, and sold them to each other, to the point that when the housing market bubble burst, it took the economy down with it. So, which is the safer investment?

reply to post by Lord Jules

not if people opt out and the system does not get a chance to steal the funds in the first place. Ron Paul has said a hundred times he wants to take foreign military spending and use that for social security.

Social Security is a trust fund, and not part of the general budget. THEY CANNOT TAKE THAT MONEY. They never have been able to take that money. It's not how it works. The right wants you to think that they have been able to dip into Social Security, because they want you to put that money into Wall Street's hands so that their banker buddies can take that money, blow it, and you won't have any recourse.

As it stands now, with the government in control. If anything should happen and Social Security for some reason does default, you as a Citizen would be able to sue the federal government for that loss.