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Bounty Hunters in CT throw fugitive through window, Shoot Family Dog.

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posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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This is my first thread and I believe I put it in the right place, if not mods please place it in the correct forum.

valley.newhavenindependent.org...

Yet another example of authority figures using excessive force, and a victim who suffered and died simply trying to protect its owner.


Ansonia resident Gary Menna Sr. was working in Naugatuck last Thursday night when his son’s girlfriend called.

“They got Max,” she said, referring to Menna’s 21-year-old son, Max Delgado.

Delgado had skipped court on drug and gun charges and had just been snagged by bounty hunters at the family’s Cedar Street residence.

Menna rushed home.

He says he got there about 7:30 p.m. to find his son in handcuffs, covered in cuts and bruises.

What’s more — one of his three dogs was lying in blood and excrement. A bail agent had shot the animal after it bit his partner.

The dog — a 3-year-old pit bull named Bullet — died the next morning on the operating table at Shoreline Veterinary Hospital in Shelton.

“The bounty hunter shot my dog in the back, piercing his abdomen. His intestines were severed,” Menna said.

Menna said Bullet had never bitten anybody before and was simply defending his owner.

“This is a family member I lost,” he said, referring to his dog. “I believe excessive force was used and they definitely did not have a right to shoot my dog on my property.”

Furthermore, he said one of the bounty hunters threatened him after Menna arrived home to find his dog badly wounded.


The two bounty hunters approached the suspect who was on the porch of his house, the dog was inside. The suspect tried to fight and get away, when he got inside the bounty hunters started beating on him, even throwing him through a window. The dog, Bullet, got defensive on the OWNERS property and bit the leg of one of the bounty hunters. The man then shot the dog in the back. The bounty hunters knew there were dogs on the property and continued anyway. There were so many other ways the situation could have been handled but the men used bad judgement and the dog got killed simply defending his property.

The suspects father came home furious and upset, not only had his son been thrown through a window, but his dog lay bleeding on his front porch. He was feet away from the man who shot his dog crying and yelling, when the bounty hunter said "you better back up or I'll shoot you too."


“I was cursing, swearing,” Menna said. “I was at least a good 10 to 15 feet from this gentleman and he says ‘You better back up before I shoot you also.’”

However, the bounty hunters involved said Menna’s son sicced the dog on them. They said they had no choice but to defend themselves.

“You could have Tased my son,” Menna said. “You could have Tased the dog.”

The bounty hunters said any injuries to Delgado were sustained because he kept fighting them. Adams said they don’t carry Tasers and a can of mace was knocked out of the his hand during the struggle.

Menna also disputed their assertion the dog was essentially being used as a weapon.

“Those dogs can’t be sicced on anybody,” Menna said. “When you’re entering a piece of property with guns in hand, you’re looking for trouble.”

Now, Menna says he’s left with a vet bill between $10,000 and $15,000.

“I want to raise as much hell as possible and I want this to be taken care of,” he said. “I want legal ramifications, civil, whatever is possible.”


In my oppinion these men used poor judgement and cost the dog its life.

Some people are going to say its the sons fault, who is in some ways responsible, but these men are trained professionals and they resorted to beating him up and throwing him through a window. The dog acted to defend a member of its family, and paid the ultimate price.

The state of US authority figures disghusts me.




edit on 22-6-2012 by Aktivate because: grammatical error

edit on 22-6-2012 by Aktivate because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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how the hell is it even legal for a 'bounty hunter' to do this? Aren't the police supposed to break into homes and kill dogs that protect their family?

Can I be a bounty hunter? I promise not to shoot pets.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Aktivate
 


We only have one side of the story here, ( Sensationalising. ) possibly with balancing pieces of information missing, from the bounty hunters perspective....?

Do they have the same status as police officers ?

There would have been no need to shoot the dog if it had been under control by its owner, maybe it wasn't ? And the bounty hunter wasn't prepared to take any chances, knowing the breeds potential for aggression ?

Not judging, just my thoughts on the matter...



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by MzMorbid
how the hell is it even legal for a 'bounty hunter' to do this?

It's not. If this is substantiated, I'm pretty sure charges will be filed.


Aren't the police supposed to break into homes and kill dogs that protect their family?

Not exactly, but they're usually allowed to get away with it...


Can I be a bounty hunter? I promise not to shoot pets.

I'm sure that's what they all say. You're probably just looking for an excuse!

EDIT:
From the article (I'm of mixed feelings about this, but as far as I'm concerned, the last line sums it up):

Bounty hunters are licensed by a special unit of the state police, Hale said. Ansonia police are reviewing Adams’ use of force “to make sure laws were followed.”

“We’ve got to talk to the state with some questions,” Hale said. “Just looking at it from a distance it appears the use of force was proper, but we’ll determine that to make sure.”

Bail enforcement agents are allowed to carry guns after going through a permitting process, just like any other citizen, according to the state police.

“They’re no different than anybody else,” said Lt. J. Paul Vance, a state police spokesman. “They’re really civilians making citizens’ arrests.”


The last line seems to be the only true part - as far as the rest, it sounds to me like these folks were trespassing on private property without invite, and I would say could/should be held accountable just like repo men. This is why repo agents pretty much always try to sneak if possible, because if the homeowner calls the calls or repo man does something bad, they can get into lots of trouble.

Needs more details, honestly...but I think those trying to apprehend the guy were fairly far in the wrong here.
edit on 22-6-2012 by PeterWiggin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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I thought a bounty hunter was something out of a John Wayne movie, I never realised you still have them!! I am shocked.

Poor dog, that would be one expired bounty hunter if it had been my dog.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by MrJohnSmith
 


The bounty hunter said he just acted on the situation, which is understandable, but they said they knew there were dogs on the property and went inside anyway. The man used poor judgement plain and simple. He could have called the police for backup and kept the house surrounded, instead the man proceeded inside and put himself in harms way. The dog reacted like many dogs do when violence breaks out, with the intention of protecting its owner.

The bounty hunter also threatened the father and later said it wasnt true, a blatent lie as the officers on scene were witness to the threat which is probably part of the reason why the bounty hunters are being investigated.

And as far as throwing the kid through a window? Come on, these men were probably very muscular and trained to apprehend suspects for a living, they couldnt cuff a 21 year old kid with their combined stregnth after the dog was alraedy shot?

There is much more to this story than the dog being killed, but the casualty was preventable.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


Yes we still have them in the states. In my oppinion most of them think they are John Wayne, watch a clip from "Dog The Bounty Hunter" and you will see what I mean. He has a fairly popular show capitalizing on his busts.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Aktivate
 


Thanks for the extra info....I wasn't judging... But he was being arrested on among other things, firearms offences, and he had skipped bail. Maybe they were heavy handed. I'm sure an investigation will reveal all.

Interesting to read from another replying poster that bounty hunters can only make a " Citizens arrest " apparently.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by MrJohnSmith
 


Its all good man lol. Thats why I said he should have some of the blame placed upon himself as the situation would have never arose if he used an ounce of judgement and responsibility. Even so, regardless of the dog, the bounty hunter was taking a considerable risk running into the perps house knowing he had been arrested on gun charges. I feel no empathy for him and believe he put himself in the situation. I feel deeply sorry for the father, who came home to find his dog bleeding out on the porch, and was then threatened by the same man who took the shot.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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The problem with stories like this, is the fact that these sorts of thugs always tend to close ranks. We'll probably get someone military in this very thread, going on about how the shooting of the dog was justified, etc.

They stand up for each other, and rationalise each other's behaviour. They all need to go to jail.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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I guess I am confused. If bounty hunters are nothing more then citizens making citizens arrests, then why are they allowed to enter private homes and detain people?

An average citizen cannot enter another persons home for any reason, unless invited. If they do, they can be charged with trespassing and leaves themselves open to being forcibly acted upon by the homeowner.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Man I really don't like the idea of bounty hunters!

Once I got kicked out of a Toys R Us in Los Angeles because "Dog" the bounty hunter and his crew were trying to apprehend a fugitive who had run into the toy store. Toys R Us threw out all of their customers immediately (including me
) and in came "Dog" with a sniffer dog and his crew of clowns. I do recall after hanging out in the parking lot with the other hundred people thrown out for a good 45 minutes to see if they got the fugitive. Nope. the clowns missed him.

Personally I think 90 percent of Bounty hunters are a joke. And if one tried kicking in my door he would most likely get a 12 gauge deer slug to the abdomen.

I can respect a cop knocking on my door or entering with a proper warrant. but a bounty hunter who is nothing more than a wannabe LEO and borderline vigilante.
edit on 22-6-2012 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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after seeing some of the dog bountry hunter series it looks like its some sort of antiquated system from the old wild west that could do with a freshen up as when you get law enforcement tasks for money theres bound to be undesirable people wanting a slice of the pie

but if the bountry hunter knows theres a dog then surely it should be a simple phone call to get some sort of animal control down there to secure the animal rather than just shooting it to die the next day in agony
but i'd imagine it would eat into the bounty



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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Well kiddies, lesson here?

If you're a criminal and skip bail, don't be surprised when johnny law kicks you in the gonads.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Just took this from ask.com, I did some searching around and this is the case in most states.




As a general rule, they can enter the fugitive's property, but not anyone else's.
They must be physically aware, by sight or sound, that the fugitive is within the home, and that entering the home will not endanger anyone inside.

When someone accepts bail, they essentially form a contract in which they surrender several legal rights in return for being let out. Part of this agreement allows a bounty hunter to enter your property to re-arrest you if you attempt to escape.
They do not, however, have the right to enter a third party's residence without permission, even if the fugitive is inside. The third party hasn't signed any agreement with the state, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with them.


The home they entered was not the perps house, rather his fathers. Where this lies as far as legality, im not sure.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Aktivate
 


Thank you, I'd always wondered about the law regarding bounty hunters. We don't have an equivalent in the UK.

( Thankfully...)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Aktivate
 





The home they entered was not the perps house, rather his fathers. Where this lies as far as legality, im not sure.



In the 1873 case of Taylor v. Taintor, the U.S. Supreme Court held that under traditional common law principles, bail bondsmen can basically do as they please to arrest a suspect. “They may” -- and I quote -- “pursue him into another state; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose.”


and


Keep in mind that this power extends only to the fugitive’s own house. The situation is very different if we’re talking about the house of a third party. Virtually every state to have considered the issue has decided that a bail bondsman does not have the right to enter into the house of another person in order to seize a bail jumper. First of all, other people are not parties to the bail contract, so they never agreed to give the bondsman extraordinary powers, such as the ability to enter their house. Also, it’s important to remember that bounty hunters are not policemen -- they don’t have the power to search a person or enter their home on “probable cause.”


To me it seems that this would make the action illegal even if the fugitive was a legal resident of the house. Since the father did not sign a contract offering rights up to the bondsmen, I would think it illegal. Even if legal, I can really seeing it bite the bondsmen in the ass. Say the son didn't inform his father that he was out on bond, bondsmen come and try to arrest the guy, break into the house and end up shooting the father who thought they were armed burglars and attempted to defend himself. I dunno, just seems to open up a lot of liability going after someone in this manner.

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posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


Im sure I'll find out soon enough, as this is a local story which is why it drew my attention in the first place. The father, Gary, owns a local pizza place not far from my home. I order from them every once in a while, the food is delicious lol. In the videos he seems heartbroken and ready to jump through hoops to see that justice is served. I dont know how he manages to keep his cool and act professional, if it was me I'd be furious. My guess is he needs to act professional owning a business and all.
edit on 22-6-2012 by Aktivate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


i suppose it would depend on the wording of the bail document that if the kid was living at the time of the bail agreement being signed in their parents house then they would be giving permission as a resident of the house for bounty hunters to enter the property but it enters a grey area especially if they dont tell the other residents of the property that they've made a legal agreement and as usual the only winner will be the lawyers



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Maxatoria
 





but it enters a grey area especially if they dont tell the other residents of the property that they've made a legal agreement


I have a feeling they are allowed to get away with it if it' the persons legal residence even though I disagree with it. The more I think about it the more it seems that would be the case. I actually wonder if the fugitive could be held liable for injuries/property damage resulting from an arrest attempt.



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