We can learn from the French.

Maybe we can learn something from the French. They didn't support the war on Iraq because they knew better that the US govt. was blowing smoke up everyone's tailpipe and that there wasn't any weapons of mass destruction or anything like it. They knew.

Maybe people should not criticise another country until they look at their own. People need to get the facts straight before slamming others for not following the US govts actions.

Just because it turns out they were "correct" it doesn't mean they were right.

Their correctness was based on cynical geo-political odds playing just as the American incorrectness was.

I don't think so. Germany and a slew of other countries too? I really think they did it because they were the more rational State and not go on heresay.

[edit on 10-5-2004 by Cearbhall]

Ahhhh but you only mentioned France, not Germany Germany Germany.

Can you explain Germany or the other countries!


(I know I said France...ack!)

Yes. Geo-politics is amoral not moral. The world more often than not takes a position counter to the U.S. simply because it provides a counterpoint to U.S. global hegemony AND plays well to the masses at home.

What I'm saying is that even countries that take a moral stand (whatever that is) do so knowing that there is an inherent advantage in taking that stand.

Remember: France sent commandos to blow up the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Austrailia (?) and the Germans...

Originally posted by deevee
Just because it turns out they were "correct" it doesn't mean they were right.

Their correctness was based on cynical geo-political odds playing just as the American incorrectness was.

yeah lets call a country who sold saddam a nuke reactor correct. the only thing we can learn is how to say "i surrrender mein herr"

Well, now we know why the French and Russians didn't want us to oust Saddam- they were recieving Billions in kickbacks from Saddam himself. Ironically, the Fedayeen fighters that the USA armed forces were using equipment donated by France. Ha.

Originally posted by Cearbhall
I don't think so. Germany and a slew of other countries too? I really think they did it because they were the more rational State and not go on heresay.

[edit on 10-5-2004 by Cearbhall]

First of all, French intelegence said THER WERE WMDs in Iraq, so they did not "know better" or know there weren't any. Quite the opposite in fact. They thought they were there.

What the French, Germans and Russia knew was that they were recieving BILLIONS of dollars and oil from Saddam.

You see Geopolitics is not as cut and dry as it seems.

The US went in for many reasons.

1) Saddam violated conditions of peace from GWI as well as UN treaties.

2) Saddam was believed to have WMDs

3) Saddam was reported to be obtaining nuclear material

4) Saddam had commited genocide

5) Saddam possesed the ability to arm our enemies (for the terrorists, the enemy of your enemy is your friend theory)

6) Oil. Yes, I am not afraid to say it. Oil played a role in why we went there. It would be short sighted to say it didn't. But it is foolish to believe that oil played anything but a secondary role. First and foremost it was the security of the US.

Ya. France and Germany and to an extent, Russia. Hmmm let's see, what did all these countries have in common besides opposing the war?

Saddam owed them a ton of cash.

So tell me. What can we learn from them again?

France sent commandos to blow up the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Austrailia

lol, even though i respect any persons right to protest, Greenpeace can be a bit of a pest at times, they often protest the stupidest things just for the sake of protesting (just because we can attitude) and tend to ignore real problems that have the possibility of being solved through constructive action.

"left wing ferrals" our politicians like to call them. I mean, i consider myself to be on the left, but Greenpeace often take things to the extreem.

EDIT: I like France

[edit on 5-10-2004 by electric squid carpet]

You know, we could learn from the French...

the USA has never been any good at dropping our guns and running away as soon as things turn nasty. We really could use some improvement in that area.

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Maybe we can learn something from the French. They didn't support the war on Iraq because they knew better that the US govt. was blowing smoke up everyone's tailpipe and that there wasn't any weapons of mass destruction or anything like it. They knew.
Maybe people should not criticise another country until they look at their own. People need to get the facts straight before slamming others for not following the US govts actions.

So true. If you notice, too, Americans who blast the French seldom "attack" the Germans for refusing to send troops to Iraq. Why? Because Americans can't call the Germans "cowards." (Autobahns negate such claims).

Neither the French or Germans have the obesity problem we have here in the US, as well. It's ironic to hear US citizens talk "tough" when most are tv-addicted pudge balls.

Europeans have had the Nazis stomp across their land. We have no concept of being attacked here at home. The World Trade Center pales in comparison to the overall violence of WW2 and only a small percentage of US citizens worked in Ground Zero, anyway.

Until American civilians - not soldiers - are forced to fight an invading army
or survive the aftermath of a large scale attack without firemen, cops or military personnel to help we'll remain the war-ignorant brats you see today.








[edit on 6-10-2004 by bushblows]

Things we can learn from the french
1) How to surrender
2) How to allow socialist policies to run an economy into the ground
3) how to allow 11000 people to die from heatstroke in a single summer
4) How to not bathe or use deodorant

Things we can learn from the germans
1) How to be lazy
2) How to allow socialists policies to create the highest unemployment rate in the western world
3) How to create economic policies for the E.U. that we then violate because of reason 2
4) How to sell the greatest car company in a country to Chrysler so it can finally be run by competant people.

What we can learn from France is to never trust these cheese eating surrender monkeys again. After we pulled their butts out of the fire on MANY occasions, after THOUSANDS of Americans gave their lives on French soil to secure their freedom, they throw us over, ridicule us, and leave us hanging in the wind for what? Money, and to keep their illegal activities with the Saddam regime secret. I personally have very little problem with the average French citizen. I have never had any problems with them, and find them to be very polite, except for one snotty waiter in a little cafe near Notre Dame. However, the government can kiss my ...toe... The same goes for Germany, where I have spent considerable time. I love the country and the people, and have many good friends and family there. But as for the government, forget it...let them swing the next time they step on their...well, you get the idea....

Originally posted by Odd
You know, we could learn from the French...

the USA has never been any good at dropping our guns and running away as soon as things turn nasty. We really could use some improvement in that area.

American SOLDIERS are strong; American *civilians* are the most pampered people in the world!

What would you have done if the big, bad Nazis came
marching into your town...? Parisians experienced such a nightmare.

Would you have pelted them with Slim Jims? Slapped them with your mouse pad..?

Please let us know how you'd react. We need a laugh.

Well for one thing, considering that Americans are the most armed populace in the western world, There would have been large numbers of snipers targeting officers not to mention more than a few bombs going off. While americans may be "pampered" as you put it we are also the most violent people in the devolped world as our murder and armed robbery rates will attest.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Well for one thing, considering that Americans are the most armed populace in the western world, There would have been large numbers of snipers targeting officers not to mention more than a few bombs going off. While americans may be "pampered" as you put it we are also the most violent people in the devolped world as our murder and armed robbery rates will attest.

The entire world views modern Americans as being "pampered" - I didn't come up with that on my own. Our violence is aimed at fellow citizens, too - which is another reason we'd be up poop's creek in a lawless environment.

And you ignored an important reality about our populas: most are fat.
Am I to believe the majority of Americans - who can barely get off their couches without becoming winded - would fight off the Nazis with gusto if they marched up to their doors...? How about food rations? You think
Americans wouldn't whine about going hungry? We consume more calories then any other nation in the world!






[edit on 6-10-2004 by bushblows]

Yeah a lot of americans are fat, so what? You ever seen a fat hunter make a shot from 500 yards or more? I have. The only difference between a deer and a nazi is you can eat a deer without getting indigestion. Those who are fat would slim up pretty quick. Also keep in mind that those who are fat would be able to handle lack of food better than the skinny, Fat is afterall a calorie storehouse. So what if our violence is directed at each other, its only becuse we dont have anyone else to kill at the moment except each other. Yeah some would whine and cry and break, most wouldn't.

One important thing we could learn from the French is to plant more trees along our highway system...you know how testy a conquering army can be if they have to march into you city in the sun. That and we should ruggedize our assault rifles more so when we drop them they arent damaged. Screw the French...they make good food and wine, but past that what do they have; Renaults' and a bad work ethic?