Syria Shoots Down Turkish Jet, Turkish Navy Massing, Article 4 NATO Treaty Invoked...

well its been great talking with you all, il see you all next time around, now wheres that rare bottle of scotch.....

Originally posted by schuyler
Which you have yet to do. You have provided zero references, yet you want others to. Do you think you are exempt?

You know what? Im bored. Lets do this.

Exerpt from the wikipedia entry on Hershs book:

Spy allegationHersh stated in The Samson Option that the foreign editor of the British Daily Mirror, Nicholas Davies, told the Mossad in 1986 the name of the hotel in which Israeli nuclear technician Mordechai Vanunu was hiding.[16] Vanunu was in the process of revealing information on the Israeli nuclear program to The Sunday Times, but was subsequently kidnapped and smuggled to Israel by the Mossad. Hersh further stated that Davies was involved in Israeli arms sales, and that his boss Robert Maxwell also had ties to the Mossad. He received this information from Ben-Menashe and from Janet Fielding, Davies' former wife.[17]

Both Davies and Maxwell immediately rejected the allegations, calling them "a complete and total lie" and a "ludicrous, a total invention" respectively.[16] On October 23, 1991 they filed a libel suit against the book's British publisher, Faber & Faber Ltd., and two days later they filed another libel suit against Hersh himself.

So. While he DID list his sources, they immediately called him out as a liar and a shill. Hmmm. Digging deeper..............

In The Samson Option Hersh cites Ben-Menashe and an anonymous Israeli source in stating that US intelligence information stolen by convicted spy Jonathan Pollard had been "sanitized" and given by Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir directly to the Soviet Union. This information was said to include US data and satellite pictures which were used by US forces for nuclear targeting against the USSR. These claims were subsequently denied by the military aide to Shamir, the then Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin, the Soviet official who was said to have received the information, and a Washington official.

Sounds like our little Hersh is quite the accomplished liar! One more?

Because Hersh named Ben-Menashe as a major source of the book, other allegations by the former Israeli official were granted greater attention.[21] Among other things, Menashe had claimed that Robert Gates, then in Senate hearings to be confirmed as the director of the CIA, had been involved in "illegal arms shipments to Iraq" during the 1980s. However, Gates was confirmed after the Senate Intelligence Committee could not substantiate the claims.

My goodness, that pretty much destroys the credibility of all his claims of sources!

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...:_Israel%27s_Nuclear_Arsenal_and_American_Foreign_Policy

Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by Miccey

 

Better dead than be ruled by the evil genocidal west.

If you insist on limiting yourself to only those two choices, and forcing one or the other, it's not hard to figure out which it will be,

I will bet the shirt off my back that something kicks off in Syria in the next 24 hours.

The controlled media have been getting us ready for war with Syria with constant propaganda
coming out of that country for the last 3 months. This incident will not be wasted at all.

So even if the plane getting shot down was not planned the west will use this to justify
an attack on Syria.. All hell breaks loose and eventually Syria will be bought down and
a new western friendly goverment installed.

Originally posted by tommyjo

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer

... or when Russia shot down a blackbird, they shouldn't of been there in the first place.

I know it is a conspiracy thread, but a Blackbird 'SR-71'. Even Russia doesn't claim anything like that!

edit on 22-6-2012 by tommyjo because: (no reason given)

Hes talking about the U2 incident...

It looks as though Assad will be going?

I doubt his regime makes it another 3 months.

Will it be better there?
Not really I dont think.?

Russia can kiss there only base good bye and a very cold shoulder to Iran as well.
Obvisous they worry big time.

Dictators always go down with the ship it seems in the mid-east.
Alot more deaths will be happening.

If Assad thinks he has it made in the shade by the Russian's backing him up he is a fool.
Assad does not snuggle into bed and cant snooze away as of late.

Has a few billion in the bank but does not want to blow Dodge city yet.

Have to see how this plays out,but Assad's days are numbered..

BREAKING: It's been confirmed by Syria that is did shoot it down.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Also, they are basically saying that Turkey lied about the apology. Said it was their air space.

reply to post by No Retreat No Surrender


an the u.s has got a powerful battle group in the area, and with britains 2 rowing boats....

Just saw it on BBC news that the jet was flying in Syrian airspace and they acted on what the law says, cant link it as I'm on phone and used the app. Don't think much will come of this, what do you think will happen when you fly military jets over another countries airspace, its going to get shot down. Just like the drone and Iran.

Originally posted by vister74
reply to post by No Retreat No Surrender

 

an the u.s has got a powerful battle group in the area, and with britains 2 rowing boats....

The UK has the Type 45 destroyer which the most advanced ship in the world capable of taking a countries whole air defense on by itself..

Hardly a rowing boat ya cheeky bugger ;-)

Originally posted by kcoyote
BREAKING: It's been confirmed by Syria that is did shoot it down.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Also, they are basically saying that Turkey lied about the apology. Said it was their air space.

edit on 22-6-2012 by kcoyote because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-6-2012 by kcoyote because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-6-2012 by kcoyote because: (no reason given)

Syria does realise it could have simply apologised and bought itself some time but instead it decides to hype up the tempo.

So.... this is how it all starts huh......

Originally posted by Warlock316
So.... this is how it all starts huh......

It looks like it now... Syria have said Turkey is lying about the apology...

Originally posted by nightbringr
And im not making any claims. Simply saying that we have no reason to believe in the Samson Option, because it has never been proved nor verified by someone who would know about it. What cant you grasp about this simple fact?

I'm not saying Hersh is the best source for this. He's a popular writer and a leftist to boot. I'm just saying he wrote a complete book on the subject. Citing Wikipedia to bash Hersh is like citing Wikipedia as a definitive source on Climate Change. It gets you a D grade. It's not definitive. If you don't believe Hersch, take a look at Mordocai Vanunu or a host of other people who corroborate the issue.

And why can't you grasp the simple fact that hiding behind an official policy of "no comment" means nothing? I would not expect anyone in authority to touch the subject at all. It's about as likely as the US government saying, "Gee, we knew about Roswell all along and here's all we know about it and, BTW, we signed a treaty with the Greys in the fifties." That kind of policy alternative is unlikely to get leaked.

Besides which, this part of the argument is almost beside the point. We know, for certain, that the Sampson Option is possible. We know where the Isaraeli's got their fissionable material. We know where their atomic research center is. We know how they hid it from the west (Read "Gideon's Spies; the secret history of the Mossad" for the details). We know they are capable of hitting western capitals directly with the Jericho III rocket (Range of over 7,000 mi) We know they have sea launch nuclear capability, thanks to Germany's Dolphin submarines. Whether or not anyone in authority in Israel has said, "This is an option," it's still an option and they and we know it.

And it's not as if influential Israelis have never floated the balloon. It's out there. Martin Van Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been quoted as saying: "Most European capitals are targets for our air force....We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under." (Quoted by David Hirst in “The War Game, a controversial view of the current crisis in the Middle East,” The Observer Guardian, September 21, 2003.

The LA Times, published an opinion piece by David Perlmutter, a Louisiana State University professor where he said: "What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away--unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans--have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?" -- “Israel: Dark Thoughts and Quiet Desperation,” Los Angeles Times, April 7, 2002.

General Moshe Dayan (You remember him!) was quoted as saying “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” This was reported by Seymour Hersh. Contrary to your opinion, he has not been discredited.

The point is that to claim the Sampson Option is not an option because no Prime Minister or Defense Minister has overtly said it was is faulty logic. It’s definitely on the radar—regardless if anyone talks about it. It does not good to stick your fingers in your ears, yelling, "La la la! I can't hear you."

Im getting tired of NATO dragging us into their stupid wars. We shouldn'nt even be a part of NATO. European countries are more than capable of resol ing their own issues without US intervention. I hope Obama doesn'nt tame the bakt.

why would Turkey lie about an apology if doesnt make much sense to me, but hey if it was in Syria and got shot down, he see that as light aggression. May of it been a harsh response YES, but reaction is granted. Know if Turkey responds with aggression thats called for as well.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Syria is pretty clear.Any invasion and it will fire its entire WMD into the aggressor states.

After that I believe Israel will activate the Samson Option hitting European capitals with nuclear missiles.After Moscow should be on alert after that(if they decide to evacuate and disperse citizens to remote fallout shelters outside the cities in the villages.It depends then on Moscow,if leadership is killed then dead hand comes online immediately and proceeds to launch its entire nuclear arsenal on pretargetted zones like USA,UK ,Europe,Israel(whatever remains.) .If leadership and moscow survive then Population evacuation should happen in an week and then Russian leadership will proceed with total launch of the nuclear and bioarsenal on western targets.

Why would Israel attack Europe? Really?

edit on 22-6-2012 by mkgandhas because: (no reason given)

Why would Israel attack Europe? That is comparable to the US losing in Iraq and nuking Chile in retaliation. It makes no sense AT ALL. There is no tactical, operational, or strategic reason for such a move. I'm no big Israeli defender, but this just smacks of "Israel is the devil" stuff.

Originally posted by muse7
Im getting tired of NATO dragging us into their stupid wars. We shouldn'nt even be a part of NATO. European countries are more than capable of resol ing their own issues without US intervention. I hope Obama doesn'nt tame the bakt.

resolving their own issues?

world war1?

world war 2?

the current financial crises?

no?

Originally posted by tommyjo

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer

... or when Russia shot down a blackbird, they shouldn't of been there in the first place.

I know it is a conspiracy thread, but a Blackbird 'SR-71'. Even Russia doesn't claim anything like that!

edit on 22-6-2012 by tommyjo because: (no reason given)

They shot down a U2 not a SR71. The pilot's name was Francis Gary Powers. I always get him confused with GP Cooper who jumped out of a 707? over the Pacific NW with a bag of loot & was never caught.