How long is Israel going to be allowed to commit attrocities. I guess the US should go after itself for aiding and abbeting a terrorist state. What is the difference between Israel and Palestine? Israel is just as barbaric or IMO even worst that most terrorist organizations. Violence doesn't beget violence.

Didn't the US make Israel a nuclear power by giving them weapons grade plutonium back in the early 60's? This shiite has got to stop

First, of course we favor Israel over the Palestinians... they're the ONLY real democracy in the entire region.

Second, this conflict is over more than just a fairly small piece of land... it's about a Muslim/Jewish/Christian conflict over the "holy lands" that has been going on since long before 1917.

Third, the Israelis don't really need much external help as they've proven themselves quite self reliant in the past. They develop a number of their own weapons systems and technologies as well as sell them to or coordinate with outside buyers. They've established a real economy for themselves and they believe in progress. What have the Palestinians done with what they themselves have and with what they have been given?... Very little.

I don't agree with many of Israel's past actions, but if I had to choose between the two... I'd pick the one who has shown it's desire to be a part of the 21st century.

Originally posted by veritas93
First, of course we favor Israel over the Palestinians... they're the ONLY real democracy in the entire region.

We don't favor them for that reason: we favor them because they are a watch dog for our interests in the region. We have favored tyrants above democratically inclined leaders so many times in our history that Israel as democracy as an explanation for our support is simply beyond believable consideration.

Second, this conflict is over more than just a fairly small piece of land... it's about a Muslim/Jewish/Christian conflict over the "holy lands" that has been going on since long before 1917.

If you look at the present state of the issue, the only real significance given to the holy site is that the Palestinans want access to a portion of Jerusalem that is important to them religiously. They are not demanding control over the entire site.
Far more important to them is that they be allowed to form a territorially cohesive nation, and that their borders be defined following as closely as possible where they lay before Israel started forcefully invading their land and building settlements on it. Sounds pretty f-ing reasonable to me, but that's just me.

They've established a real economy for themselves and they believe in progress. What have the Palestinians done with what they themselves have and with what they have been given?... Very little.

I don't agree with many of Israel's past actions, but if I had to choose between the two... I'd pick the one who has shown it's desire to be a part of the 21st century.

That's a rather arbitrary judgement.
Israel has chosen to be part of a 21st century as you envisage it, which is of course not the end all or be all of the matter.
I agree with you insofar as the Israeli way of life is closer to my own than the Palestinian one (if you disregard the aspect of the Israeli way that consists in trying to digest the territories of another people - I don't identify with that at all).
Anyway, it is misleading to pose things in the form of choosing one or the other: both can coexist. The first step towards that is to cut off support for Israel, as Israel will never sincerely approach the peace process while it knows it has our support.

Then may the chips fall where they may. There is a chance that without our continuing support for Israel, the two nations might eventually embrace lasting peace.

U.

Since when does a condemnation have to be "balanced"... WE didn't even 'condemn' the Israeli attack on our own warship once upon a time. Our unilateral support of Israel ignores the fact that they are just as mucu a terrorist rogue nation as any arabic nation. Terrorism is ok as long as MOSSAD pulls it off. Ridiculous.

Thank you all for the links to the "how".

Man, this thing is dates back generation after generation.

I found one that was as if a conglomerative news report, but only dated up to '88.

The whole thing is as if a giant puzzle/maze/clusterf*k between many countries all at once yet over many years.

It seems as if it will never, ever, stop.

If the Isreali state is of "the 21st century", I fail to understand why they dont just act like it and STOP. I am prolly missing a lot of the concepts of this war (and that's just what it is, a war), as one can not perceive that many years of chaos in just a day or so.

I do not understand the personal views, however, of Isreal being "standing on thier own; making tech advancements; etc" when the States gives them everything they need/want. Granted, being an alli is one thing, but perpetuation this fiasco of death is another, and it's WRONG (imo).

On that note, I do stand by my "Hear hear! " to the post of "Yes, but more to the point, the terror will continue due to US support for Israel's position. "

Anyway, I'll hush now, as I'm not really inputting. Just wanted to send grats.

Misfit

Originally posted by Misfit
On that note, I do stand by my "Hear hear! " to the post of "Yes, but more to the point, the terror will continue due to US support for Israel's position. "

Anyway, I'll hush now, as I'm not really inputting. Just wanted to send grats.

Misfit

Thanks Misfit.

And you are contributing, just as much as anyone of us.

U.

I support the U.S. stance on codemnation of this resolution. I take Krav Maga and talk with Israeli's from time to time about their situation. I feel for the Israeli people. I have no pity for the Palestinians (unless they're Christian). The IDF has Palestinians and Arabs in their ranks and they are loyal to the Iaraeli cause. I have never seen Israel commit any terrorist attacks on on anyone. The Israeli situation is one akin to the situation America had 230 years ago. If we can't help Israel out, then we must give up our way of life, because we'll have then joined the cause of the enemies of Israel.

[edit on 6/10/04 by Intelearthling]

While I agree with Israel most of the time, I have no problem with saying when I think they are wrong.

And while I also generally don't have a problem with US vetoes of Security Counsel resolutions brought against Israel, I think maybe this time we should have abstained. What is currently going on in Gaza does seem to me to be a bit heavy handed.

I am not against Israel defending herself, but the current action really does seem to be highly disproportional.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I have no pity for the Palestinians (unless they're Christian).

I might have bothered discussing this with you, but the above sentence shows the gulf between us is simply too wide and too deep.

U,

Oh no not again

But just imagine if we gave the palestinians what they want.. the war on terror would collpase coz they would stop their itifada. Israel would not have to buy tons og guns'n ammo whare would this all end?!?! WOLRD PEACE?!?
No we can't have that now can we? Presidantial buddies in the gun business would run out of money... how sad is that?

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I have no pity for the Palestinians (unless they're Christian).

That backwards, biased, and close-minded mentality is what perpetuates this and a vast many of past wars.

Fu*k God and his 10 commandments, let kill people.

Misfit

Originally posted by veritas93

Third, the Israelis don't really need much external help as they've proven themselves quite self reliant in the past. They develop a number of their own weapons systems and technologies as well as sell them to or coordinate with outside buyers. They've established a real economy for themselves and they believe in progress. What have the Palestinians done with what they themselves have and with what they have been given?... Very little.

I don't agree with many of Israel's past actions, but if I had to choose between the two... I'd pick the one who has shown it's desire to be a part of the 21st century.

"The Israelis don't really need much external help" where have you been since 1945? Come on.. look at the amounts the US regularly "donate".

What have the palestinians given you ask? That alone shows where you are coming from.... do you think they have anything to give?!?!?

The pelestinians are to be either exterminated or to be relocated to jordan or syria (who ever will have them), that is the basic Israeli intention. Nothing more nothing less.