Family Has Woman Committed For Christian Beliefs. Has To Renounce Jesus For Release

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Klassified

 

Where are her brothers and sisters in Christ? Why aren't they coming to her aid?


Why come to her aid when they can just send off a quick 10 second prayer her way, rather than actually going down there to protest, as that would be too much trouble...


I'll give the christians this - they are consistent...

So you came to this conclusion with what facts ? I know the school of how to be ignorant and lie in today's society with zero knowledge led you to this stupid opinion.

Speaking as both an Ordained Christian and a life long Mental Health patient, I believe that if she is a danger to herself or others then she is in the right place. I've been there myself and I was much better when I left the unit.

That said, no one has the right to insist that someone denounce their faith on any level and if she is mentally ill, then by taking away her faith and beliefs all that they're doing is taking away something that provides her with comfort and strength and this usually makes things much worse for the patient.

My thoughts and prayers will be with her.

Rev

reply to post by GoldenRuled


Actually the Bible never even touches on the subject of suicide. It is believed by Christian Scholars that if a true Christian commits suicide that it lowers their position in Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible does it say suicide= hell. What if a person took their own life because they wished to be with God or to end horrible suffering from a disease or accident?

But to clarify, I do not support suicide and I think that for a Christian to to it means they are not placing their faith in Christ. Just wanted to point out that the Bible really does not address it. It says murder is a sin, but it defines murder as taking another's life. Kinda a gray area.

reply to post by Christian Voice


Murdering ones self sounds like murder to me.

reply to post by GoldenVoyager


I agree fully, just going by definition and what is written. I don't know the mentally capacity of this woman in question but the whole story stinks to high Heaven.

Now I'm pagan, full disclosure, but if they are holding her based on religion, it's not right.

BUT - while it would seem that it cannot be DONE in the US, I have seen it be an issue. I used to direct 2 mental health units. I always made it a point to keep my religion, or lack thereof as the case may have been at times, quiet.

However, for a while on one of the units we had a Roman Catholic Psychiatrist and a Roman Catholic social worker who were rather religious. Most of the rest of the staff were either protestant, or I-really-don't-care-or-think-about-it-much-estant.

We had some patients that got some - forgive me- eckhart? materials? Which the psychiatrist found when she went in to see one of the patients. SHE regarded it as a cult and dangerous and used it in her notes as justification to help keep people committed, and I was urged to 'purge' the unit of such materials.

I really don't even KNOW what the stuff is. Luckily it really wasn't that much of an issue for the patients and the psychiatrist got reassigned so I never did anything and it never came up again.

I just really didn't like that much. BUT - anyway- so when I saw this title, I remembered that, and know that if you get an authority chain that is very religious themselves - IE doctor, treatment team, judge - it really could happen. If someone didn't ever challenge it on up the chain, it could stand.

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

The only way a christian can get into Heaven through the loss of their own life is by sacrificing it for another. Suicide is a 1 way ticket straight to Hell. No if, and's or buts. The Bible is pretty blunt on that. I don't know they would be present on Judgement Day.

edit on 21-6-2012 by GoldenRuled because: (no reason given)

No, If you look at the LDS Baptism whihc says that if your not baptized a Mormon you can not get into heaven..... and Christians are going to vote for Mittens?....

reply to post by revmoofoo
What I've read/heard from committed Christians has always been that the therapist encouraged them to keep their faith, although they may ask the person to question what they've been taught. *shrugs*

reply to post by Christian Voice
I think what I see many Christians referencing stuff about not even giving up even to death. Specifically, about not giving up on Christianity, even to death.

16 "But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, 17 and you will be hated by all because of My name. 18 "Yet not a hair of your head will perish. 19 "By your endurance you will gain your lives.

Here. Endure it all, and you will be rewarded with heaven.

18 "Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go." 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me!"

Here. You're going to die old and infirm, buddy! Follow me to the end!

There's plenty more, of course.
From this angle it's often seen that endurance to the likely bitter end is what we are called for. This is worth death, this is worth enduring through the hell of this world for, and suicide can detract from that message. I don't find it in Christianity's best interest to opt for suicide out of the misery our ends can bring.

But to say people are going to hell for suiciding? Especially when half the time, a suicide is a cry for help, or a sign of not being sane? How is that going to be held against them? Part of Insanity is not being in control of your self.

A question if i may... how is believing in God different someone saying they have an imaginary person or voice speaking to them?

I've seen people commited for the latter, why does the same rule not apply to someone who thinks that an imaginary sits in the heavens and tells them how to run thier life?

Thats a serious question btw, not a dig at Christianity. If you can tell me how they differ i'll leave it at that.

CX.

Something very similar just happened to me.
I feel her pain and believe that this will be happening frequently now.

Originally posted by CX
A question if i may... how is believing in God different someone saying they have an imaginary person or voice speaking to them?

I've seen people commited for the latter, why does the same rule not apply to someone who thinks that an imaginary sits in the heavens and tells them how to run thier life?

Thats a serious question btw, not a dig at Christianity. If you can tell me how they differ i'll leave it at that.

CX.

Let's not leave out all those that believe in air.
I'm sure we can find a pen and some drugs for all believers.

reply to post by CX


1. For some people, in and how they believe in Christianity, there is no difference, so yes, this is a valid question to ask them.
2. Merely having voices should never be enough to get you committed. Having voices that control you more than you control yourself? Yeah, that's where the issue is, but it's the same issue as letting alcohol control you. Hence articles like this.
3. Thing is, that a lot of Christians aren't looking at this as blindly following something. They put a lot of reasoning and effort and sometimes even doubt into what they believe. That's not something that's talked about as much in the "hearing voices" community, but it should be.

In addition, the manual for the first time would include gambling as an addiction, and it might introduce a catchall category — “behavioral addiction — not otherwise specified” — that some public health experts warn would be too readily used by doctors, despite a dearth of research, to diagnose addictions to shopping, sex, using the Internet or playing video games.

www.nytimes.com... /2012/05/12/us/dsm-revisions-may-sharply-increase-addiction-diagnoses.html?pagewanted=all

Here is some proof that the rules are changing in america.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


I was really lucky in the unit because they never tried to mess with my faith. I think it was because I was reading so many religious books (which I had taken with me to the unit) that weren't Christian in origin. They totally got the hump with me when I hacked their wireless network so that I could surf the web though, but thankfully they didn't prosecute...they just banned me from having a laptop or a smartphone, in case I decided to go after patient records.

Rev

reply to post by GoldenRuled


My father was mentally ill, he was also severely religious. It was obvious to everyone who knew him that his version of Christianity was the way it was because of his mental illness. With the help of medication he was semi-normal, other than praying in tongues nearly every waking moment of every day and singing hymns constantly. Eventually he got louder and louder, he would scream in tongues until 3 or 4 in the morning, I can remember hearing it coming through the walls, coming through the floor into my room. I used to put on music and wear headphones just to block it out.

Once or twice he went off his meds, believing that God was going to deliver him from them, he would fast and pray, nearly starved himself to death twice but each time we would call to have him taken away to get psychiatric help he would just promise the folks who came that he was going to start eating more and BAM suddenly he wasn't crazy enough to need help.

I hope you can imagine what it was like for my family trying to live their lives with his zealotry around us constantly. He would blow the money he made on printing religious tracts, dance "in the spirit" while in public (pumping gas, shopping, didn't matter where or who he was with), and of course scream in tongues until his voice was hoarse at all hours of the day and night.

Now my parents are separated. I can tell you my Mom is a lot happier, and since I moved out I've been a hell of a lot happier too. My point is that while religion itself isn't a sign of mental illness it can be IMPOSSIBLE to tell the difference between a normal person who believes and someone who is legitimately mentally ill and religion is more or less a symptom of their illness. For my Dad Jesus had replaced his addictions to drugs and alcohol and it proved just as damaging an addiction both to him and his family.

We can't just start locking up religious folks of course and we have to be very careful in diagnosing mental illness but it'd be a heck of a lot easier if we didn't live in a world where even most normal people believe absurd ridiculous things.

reply to post by CX


Totally a dig at Christianity. Why would you presume that God is imaginary? Why does the idea of a creator make you uncomfortable? Is it really easier for you to believe that your being is the result of a huge galactic accident? I have never heard of someone being committed for having an imaginary friend.

For those of you who might be interested, I just found this... it's quite long but I think it is current and from today.

Still I don't know what to make of this and it all seems to hard to believe.

www.blogtalkradio.com...

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by CX

 

Totally a dig at Christianity.

No. I meant what i said, it was a serious question. Yes i have serious issues with organised cults, but i won't tell you what you can and can't be misled by.

Why would you presume that God is imaginary?

Ummm....because he/she/it is. if you can arrange a personal meeting to convince me otherwise, possibly an autographed piccy like those prayer cloths they sell on the God channel, then i'll believe anything you want me to.

As for never hearing of anyone being commited for hearing voices, you need to spend more time in psychiatric wards, you'd be amazed at what they used to put people in there for. I've seen this first hand back in the early nineties. May even go on still today.

CX.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Magnum007

 

Jesus or invisible all mighty powerful "god" = ok to believe
Elves or green men or aliens = you're crazy

Hmmmm... who has the mental disease?

NWO?

Sounds like you think all those who believe in God are mentally ill.

Jesus said to his disciples:
“I have come to set the earth on fire,
and how I wish it were already blazing!
There is a baptism with which I must be baptized,
and how great is my anguish until it is accomplished!
Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth?
No, I tell you, but rather division.
From now on a household of five will be divided,
three against two and two against three;
a father will be divided against his son
and a son against his father,
a mother against her daughter
and a daughter against her mother,
a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

Any competent doctor(s) would not require her to renounce her faith to be released. If they told me to do so I would think they were Satanic also.

edit on 6/21/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)

Great comeback, use a fiction book to justify that blindly believing in a ghost with magic powers is ok but that believing in green men, aliens, or gnomes is not...

Using this logic, then Snow White's friends the dwarves said "Hey ho, hey ho, it's home to work we go"... so there you have it, magical forest dwarves exist...