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Tazers - case law suggest its electrical torture - and thats against international law

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posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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Today, I was investigating Tazers - and the funny thing about tazers is how people admit it is torture and it remains legal. even encouraged = as a non-lethal pain compliance tool. yeah right, so is the iron maden, thumb screws - anal dialators - jaw breakers - inflect pain to gain compliance.
you know - with the information I have collected today - if I ever get tazed - I'm suing the Manufacturer and the Policeman who used it and the Police Department - the town that allowed its use, the state for not protecting my rights under the geneva convention - at every level this thing is illegal, electricity has been used for torture since it was discovered and every case that has been tried - its described as torture, so non-lethal pain compliance is a nice way of saying it hurts like hell....

what do you say - Toture Device or Legal to use at officers descretion to gain compliance... ?
electrical torture devices
edit on 20-6-2012 by 1BornPatriot because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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It's a torture device to gain compliance, plain and simple.
It is, what it is.

And no matter how they are used, the officers are ALWAYS acting appropriately according to policies and procedures. Even when it's obvious incompetence, which is to instill a level of "in control" for the local departments. Games of words.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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well is it not better than shooting people or beating them with fists/batons? I mean in the long run is it really prudent to be taking away things that can also be used for self defense? Theres not always gonna be a cop around the corner.

besides same with guns its all about the person holding it, this is why the 2nd amendment still prevails

Man kills father with weed whacker

Should we start banning or criminalizing the ownership of weed whackers if we start seeing more of this?

edit on 20-6-2012 by LoonyConservative because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by LoonyConservative
 


I agree, Motive would be a deciding factor - if I was in the wrong and the officer was in the right - I would be in the wrong and that would be my mistake. however, I am referring to the use of these devices in the sense of a Officer pounding your face in the whole time he is yelling stop resisting.... thats torture with fists in my opinion - how could the officer deterine Resistance from Protecting ones self from injury, which is a natural reaction to getting your face beat in.... and thats not resisting arrest in my opinion... (I was ready for this question),,,,
edit on 20-6-2012 by 1BornPatriot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by 1BornPatriot
 


Fully agree, these are devices designed to produce compliance through electrically induced pain generation/stimulation, so a Tazer is a torture device as defined under the Geneva Convention. However, no government to date has openly declared war on its citizenry, so the Geneva Convention may not apply since the GC applies in general terms to war zones and operational theaters. If you wanted to use other UN statutes and conventions, it will more than likely apply, but that is a slippery slope. Acknowledging the UN in anything opens the door to legitimizing their criminal operations.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 6/20.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by 1BornPatriot
 


I get what your saying, but your also taking rare instances that get paraded all over the evening news as the norm for all cops..There are some bad cops out there, but I think there's more out there that are decent. Being a cop is a stressful job I'd imagine especially if you have a family.. you really don't know whose gonna be the one pointing a gun at the door as you walk up.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


I beg to differ, as I recall reading something called the Patriot Act - and Patriot Act II and NDAA, the only thing left to do is start killing people legally. under ObamaCare... you have no rights if they dont honor those rights you think you have - when you need them you are screwed.... so keep on believing you do -- other wise you might have to declare war to get them back....



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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How is it a tool to gain compliance? Either you comply or you resist.. just because you comply doesn't mean you automatically did something wrong. North Alabama must be a pretty chill area to live lol never had a cop treat me unfairly, and only ever been pulled over when i was indeed speeding.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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since weapons are not "tools of compliance" in any reasonable sense of the matter, torture it is.
i don't think i would envoke the GC just because that would legitimize that lunatic UN group, however, i would certainly sue the pants off of any usage as it is intended to harm, from the moment it is discharged, hence it's lethal potential is no accident.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by 1BornPatriot
reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


I beg to differ, as I recall reading something called the Patriot Act - and Patriot Act II and NDAA, the only thing left to do is start killing people legally. under ObamaCare... you have no rights if they dont honor those rights you think you have - when you need them you are screwed.... so keep on believing you do -- other wise you might have to declare war to get them back....


I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying, which is simply that if you legitimize the criminal actions of the UN, it may be all our undoing. I certainly don't want UN "branded" troops on our soil operating as "police."

Did you ever think that maybe the police are using tazers in the hope that someone will challenge these "torture" definitions so the UN gets involved and speeds up the takeover of countries to form the OWG?

Personally however, I see civil war on the horizon and I think that may be the only way to correct society's problems and neutralize the global financial crisis that is coming our way quickly. It's an unfortunate situation, but, the PTB have been instrumental in bringing the fight to everyone's doorstep. The PTB would be wise not to push the envelope, it will eventually push back I think.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by 1BornPatriot
 


I don't understand how something like this does not require a vote and permission from the people to be used across the board in the first place. Who decided they were Constitutional? I like your reasoning and if it ever happens to me I am going that route as well. Thanks for the heads up. You are right. It IS electrical torture and should be against international law and the USA should be setting an example not leading the pack. We all hate lawyers but sometimes a lawyer is all it takes to initiate change. A lawyer who believes in justice, fights for justice and is not afraid.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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The amount of ignorance surrounding tasers still amazes me.

Perhaps it's time to give the kids a lesson.

Tasers are not pain compliance weapons. Pain is just a by product of the desired effect, Neuro Muscular Interruption (NMI). Electrical voltage generated from a taser, such as the X-26 carried my most law enforcement, is the same frequency as neural impulses in the human body. It's primary function is to disable the subject via NMI, specifically interrupting nerve signals, causing a loss of control over your muscles. This is why you see people locking up while being exposed. The typical cycle is 5 seconds, unless you choose to hold the trigger which will prolong the cycle until you let off. Although 5 seconds is more than enough for probe deployment, assist subject to the ground and apply mechanical restraints. When the cycle ends, if the subjects continues to resist, they're already in cuffs. Situation resolved.

As for the torture argument, it's bull. I've been tased numerous times for trainning. My instructor was tased 26 times, back to back, while filming the training videos for Taser International. It's not as bad as everyone make it out to be. I'd glady take a taser ride over pepper spray any day.

Just from my work experience, the taser has saved more lives than you'd even know.

Words from a officer I knew: "I was half way through a trigger pull..." His backup arrived as a subject rushed him with a knife. Responding officer was able to deploy probes before he pulled the trigger on his Glock. That man, idiot or not, would be dead otherwise.

Take it for what it's worth, but this is my area of expertise.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 03:40 AM
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The ICC has not yet taken up the petition against the Bush torture policy despite the growing evidence and commissions looking into the situation. This has involved real torture stuff so I really do not like your chances of being able to take things that far. If you had the worlds largest army and untold trillions of dollars it might be different.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by 1BornPatriotwhat do you say - Toture Device or Legal to use at officers descretion to gain compliance... ?


Yes. and since they are in the majority of cases non-lethal these tazer weilding morons pull them out against unarmed taxpayers more often than they shake a taxpayers hand in greeting.

That says a lot and what is says is just plain sad. We are putting into positions of power individuals who are fearful and insecure and teh only way that they can feel powerful is to inflic pain on the very people whom they pretend to protect.


Truth. The police and their leash holders hate taxpayers, they look down at us with contempt, if they could tax the dead they would like us to all go away and die.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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These thins should be outlawed.
Plain and simple.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by 1BornPatriotwhat do you say - Toture Device or Legal to use at officers descretion to gain compliance... ?


Yes. and since they are in the majority of cases non-lethal these tazer weilding morons pull them out against unarmed taxpayers more often than they shake a taxpayers hand in greeting.

That says a lot and what is says is just plain sad. We are putting into positions of power individuals who are fearful and insecure and teh only way that they can feel powerful is to inflic pain on the very people whom they pretend to protect.


Truth. The police and their leash holders hate taxpayers, they look down at us with contempt, if they could tax the dead they would like us to all go away and die.


You really ought to do some homework on how the system works. You'd realize why officers are more likely to use a taser than go hands on. It's the simple legality of it. Using a taser constitutes as a lesser degree of force than other means.

You're issue with less than lethal means of force is actually an issue in general Use of Force continuum and how it is viewed by the court system. People will sue over anything, and using a taser is safer in court than laying hands on anyone. You may not like it, but it is a systematic response to frivolous actions of the American public. Whether it's a monster or not, it's your creation.

...and if you knew the first thing about law enforcement training, you would never have made your initial comment. Officer's don't shake hands. If, on the rare chance they are comfortable enough to do so, it's with the left hand. Because of sentiments like some of the post I've read in these forums, good men have died over a handshake. Once again, a systematic response to actions of the American people.




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