A word on Enlightenment

reply to post by Theophorus


You make a number of assumptions which are incorrect, in my humble opinion. That being said, the term "enlightenment" and how it is understood and used is fascinating.

reply to post by Theophorus


Well, until you can "prove" that knowledge has a start and a finish, it is considered infinite.

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Well, until you can "prove" that knowledge has a start and a finish, it is considered infinite.

Knowledge (and life) is energy. Energy disperses. Any truth subordinates to higher truths.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

Who is we? Sheeple?

Perhaps you can tell me how life can manifest itself.. first describe life!

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

Who is we? Sheeple?

Perhaps you can tell me how life can manifest itself.. first describe life!

Here's your answer: I don't know!
Your turn. Please give us your facts.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by bowtomonkey

 

yea,,, well is it that you see enlightenment as a status..... like the concept of being "cool" or having Dr. in front of your name......

you get to think of your self as enlightened,,, for your own benefit,,, and for a positive and revering judgement from others? i see no other benefit or purpose for endowing yourself with such a title,,,,,

edit on 20-6-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

"It is your idea that you have to do things that entangle you in results of your efforts"

can i say it is your idea the you do not have to do things that entangle you in results of your efforts?

can you prove to me that you know what you think is right?

edit on 20-6-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

What do you want me to prove. You restated what I said from the perspective of the doer. It shows you understood my quote, so what?

I've never met anyone who called them self enlightened, but I've read accounts from experts who tell how hard it is.. thing is, they don't know what enlightenment is by their own admission, so what could they say that is of any worth =- nothing.. although they best of them work on principals that have passed down 1000's of years and immersed themselves into the way of finding out. YES for them being enlightened is treated like a a status but in their defense the figure heads they revere are all humble souls; their teachers.. well, you know religions and hierarchy and how people are selfish..

I worked hard on learning from people are considered enlightened and I don't claim to know what it means.. perhaps nothing. It is easier to talk about what isn't enlightened.

As for how to treat someone who says they are enlightened, I guess the level of what you can learn is up to your own level. My personal understanding is that you don't change when you are enlightened, at least as far as image is concerned and the things you do and done with complete ease. I could go on but I won't.

reply to post by jiggerj


There are no facts beyond the place you put thin gs into your framework of concepts. This is your personal concept of concepts that you call the truth. Have a quick look at the video I posted. He says it with the sort of humility you feel you deserve, and you are upset at the way I treated you.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Well, until you can "prove" that knowledge has a start and a finish, it is considered infinite.

there is human knowledge that we can measure in terms of intellect then there is devine knowledge which we cant. This makes human knowledge finite.

reply to post by Theophorus


Are you talking about brain power?

reply to post by Theophorus


That doesn't answer the question. "Intellect" can not put a start and finish on human knowledge.

'Enlightenment'.... I understand.

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

There are no facts beyond the place you put thin gs into your framework of concepts. This is your personal concept of concepts that you call the truth. Have a quick look at the video I posted. He says it with the sort of humility you feel you deserve, and you are upset at the way I treated you.

What? Are you telling me that the Nothing over in section A doesn't connect with the nothing over in section B to produce consciousness without an engine? Without a brain?

Listen, it's fun to imagine lots of things (a universal consciousness, souls, heaven...) but when these things are taken seriously it makes people look like absolute fools. Find at least one sliver of fact other than 'somebody told me so', or don't believe any of it.

Originally posted by jiggerj
We are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, minerals, energy... Everything we are stays right in the realm we call 'Something'. We cannot slip into a realm of nothing.

The human body might just as well be something like a mobile phone or remote controlled robot and at the other end there is 'us' talking through it and expressing the individual through it. Once the phone desintegrates or the robot is worn out, the signal is lost forever and whatever it is at the other end cannot express itself through it anymore.

Once this shared experience of existing ends for the entity on the other end it will simply find itself in a new place.

One of my favourite music tracks of all time is Enlightenment by Van Morrison....Give it a listen....


What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Every second, every minute
It keeps changing to something different
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It says it's non attachment
Non attachment. non attachment

I'm in the here and now, and I'm meditating
And still I'm suffering but that's my problem
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Wake up

Enlightenment says the world is nothing
Nothing but a dream, everything's an illusion
And nothing is real

Good or bad baby
You can change it anyway you want
You can rearrange it
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Chop that wood
And carry water
What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

All around baby. you can see
You're making your own reality. everyday because
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

One more time

Enlightenment. don't know what it is
It's up to you
Enlightenment. don't know what it is
It's up to you everyday
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It's always up to you
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerj
We are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, minerals, energy... Everything we are stays right in the realm we call 'Something'. We cannot slip into a realm of nothing.

The human body might just as well be something like a mobile phone or remote controlled robot and at the other end there is 'us' talking through it and expressing the individual through it. Once the phone desintegrates or the robot is worn out, the signal is lost forever and whatever it is at the other end cannot express itself through it anymore.

Once this shared experience of existing ends for the entity on the other end it will simply find itself in a new place.

Why is there such a need to complicate life? Considering the size of the universe we are bacteria growing on the head of a pin. We are not special. We are not connected to some grand scheme. That's it.

Originally posted by absolutelyhow gods cant do what they need by them it is incredible what one must know, how gods when seeing small conscious in vast space they mean immediately to enslave it till the end since it is small, how for gods small dont matter what suffer
wat enlightenemnt?? to see that gods are such monsters with infinite powers for on us?? only same say that

They only have infinite powers if the beholder attributes this to them, makes it real by faith. Those gods might be harsh masters but I imagine I would be too if I were in their place. Here you have a people full of potential and so many waste it, century after century. They need us newcomers, some might even enjoy teaching humanity if only they would (or in many cases, could) listen. But I could understand many of them are just frustrated with humanity.

And ultimately I believe we are all sparks of the same origin which are all equal (in power) for all of infinity, just some are older and more advanced/developed in the ways of applying that power. Just like a mobile phone would be considered magic to someone from the middle ages, so their powers can be explained. But if one would demonstrate it, the observer (us mundane humans) would misinterpret because of lack of knowledge.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Why is there such a need to complicate life? Considering the size of the universe we are bacteria growing on the head of a pin. We are not special. We are not connected to some grand scheme. That's it.

I'm not saying we are special, not more than any other life in this universe. I would however say that the human body, all the other animals, insects, trees, plants, bacteria are the product of some grand scheme. If life didn't happen, if this was all dirt, wind and just some molecules floating around not interacting at all then there wouldn't be a scheme. So life is special to me, in a precious kind of way, not "I am more holier than thou".

Looking at insects in particular is when I'm almost sure there is more to it than I know or understand. These are such small machines, so complex yet so small and insignificant. If they didn't exist, life as we knew it didn't exist. Not that I attribute any specific meaning to them, can explain their origins but I don't take them for granted either. There has got to be something that created and arranged all that DNA the way it did which enables us to wonder about it, and maybe one day 'crack the code' ourselves.

This place is huge and filled with information to analyze, learn and grow from. That makes existence complicated to me as I've exposed myself to it. Ofcourse I could have learned how to shut my eyes and pretend there's nothing more in this life but eating, sleeping, working, procreating but I didn't so I have to sort out all of this stuff to which I exposed myself, or I would go nuts.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerj
Why is there such a need to complicate life? Considering the size of the universe we are bacteria growing on the head of a pin. We are not special. We are not connected to some grand scheme. That's it.

I'm not saying we are special, not more than any other life in this universe. I would however say that the human body, all the other animals, insects, trees, plants, bacteria are the product of some grand scheme. If life didn't happen, if this was all dirt, wind and just some molecules floating around not interacting at all then there wouldn't be a scheme. So life is special to me, in a precious kind of way, not "I am more holier than thou".

Looking at insects in particular is when I'm almost sure there is more to it than I know or understand. These are such small machines, so complex yet so small and insignificant. If they didn't exist, life as we knew it didn't exist. Not that I attribute any specific meaning to them, can explain their origins but I don't take them for granted either. There has got to be something that created and arranged all that DNA the way it did which enables us to wonder about it, and maybe one day 'crack the code' ourselves.

This place is huge and filled with information to analyze, learn and grow from. That makes existence complicated to me as I've exposed myself to it. Ofcourse I could have learned how to shut my eyes and pretend there's nothing more in this life but eating, sleeping, working, procreating but I didn't so I have to sort out all of this stuff to which I exposed myself, or I would go nuts.

edit on 21/6/2012 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

I too sometimes get a sense of awe at this life, but then I think on how people were once so awed over such things as hurricanes and tornadoes and volcanoes that they believed, "Surely, there must be a god behind all of this."

With knowledge as our weapons, one by one we killed these gods. I am confident that all the gods will be defeated in time. I am also confident that once we discover how life came to be, the answer will be perfectly logical, with no magic involved.

reply to post by jiggerj


"I too sometimes get a sense of awe at this life, but then I think on how people were once so awed over such things as hurricanes and tornadoes and volcanoes that they believed, "Surely, there must be a god behind all of this."

You are not awed by these things anymore? I am amazed everyday by nature and the workings of this planet. I feel sad for you.